School shootings and the way that we raise our children

[Tyrant55]

This site may seem like kind of a "meat head" site, but I thought this guy brought up some fair points.

At what point does this new generation of parent and school realize that the more you suppress normal behavior, like fist fighting, the more it comes out in more violent ways? Kids don't duke it out anymore, because well, they will get expelled and possibly go to jail. So now, they are forced to suppress their frustration and anger to the point of exploding. And that's what happens.




Bullying and fist fighting are now things that are frowned upon, that were just a normal part of growing up in "my time". But pacifist parents that won't spank their kids, or have other kids arrested for a fist fight are responsible for raising this generation of cowards.




Only a coward goes to school armed, against a bunch of unarmed kids and opens fire, instead of settling his differences with clenched fists.




Instead of teaching kids it's ok to settle differences with closed fists and white knuckles, like we all did years ago, we teach them ALL violence is wrong. And they never learn the lessons that served us so well growing up. Young men are SUPPOSED to fist fight. It actually builds character, respect, and believe it or not, often friendships.




I hope at some point things change, and the things that should be "normal" in youth, become normal once again.

Source: http://www.lift-run-bang.com/

Is at least part of the reson why we have seen such a sharp increase in school shootings in recent years simply that we have tried so hard to supress violence of any sort, even if it is natural? There are quite a few holes in the argument this guy makes of course, but I think there is definitely something to be learned here. We baby kids WAY too much these days, and attempting to shield them from any kind of problems that they would naturally face growing up doesn't do them any good. This isn't to say that we should suddenly start encouraging brawling and bullying, just that we should stop trying to shelter them from every little thing. They will need to fend for themselves in adulthood, and we are just making the transition harder if they have no clue how to deal with common problems (not to say that most logical adults settle their problems by brawling, but you get what I mean). Just looking for some opinions from the Escapist, it's been a long time since I posted here at all.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Well, assume that kids are rational beings. (Big assumption, I know)

Given two options, both of which penalise the same way, they're likely to take the option that provides them with more satisfaction.

What shoots this down? Oh yeah. I'm pretty sure the penalties are different. Who's going to send a kid to jail for a fistfight?

 

[Logiclul]

I am a gamer, I have fought against "gaming kills!" parades for years. I think that the committees ran by house-wives with too much overprivillaged time trying to restrict gaming are awful.

However, I must say that video games like Call of Duty likely have a solid impact on the increase in school shootings (to a notably stronger degree than other modes of media).

I watch Law Abiding Citizen, Black Hawk Down, I see awesome people killing other less awesome people in awesome fashions.

I play Battlefield 3, I am awesome and am killing other less awesome people in awesome fashions.

(oversimplification I know, but bear with me)

Video games ENGAGE you with the different methods of murder, and that does more than the desensitization which movies and tv do to your psyche. I will even admit myself that I take murder and other crimes far more lightly (even in the context of myself committing them) due to (and I say this with self-aware confidence) video games; not cinema.

As to what we should do to counter this speculation, I don't know other than to be more strict in regards to who gets games rated 'M' or 'T'.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

First of all, let me say this: The recent school shooting in Chardon? I live there. I don't go to school there, but I have many friends in the school that have been crying for the past four days over a handful of kids they knew almost nothing of.

I've found out this past week so much about my peers. We may be sheltered, we may be condescending, we may be victims of the silent majority, but we do care, and there are some of us who don't care. There is little satisfaction to be had over winning a scuffle with your antagonist, and some people are so beyond caring that they have to end it with a shot instead of a punch. Just because you get in trouble for fighting someone isn't going to stop them from fighting; just because you are wrecking your life and indirectly thousands of others by pulling a gun at school doesn't mean someone's not going to do it.

So go ahead. Say that we should be allowed our fights and freed from the punishments that may follow, but those are all hollow victories. But I don't think there is too much that we can do. Some people, you see, just want it all done with, people with problems that don't even begin inside the school, and probably never could be fixed by punching someone in the stomach.

Take this as you will, from naive audience member that is sitting in the front rows.

 

[Lucem712]

I'm not sure, it might have to do with seclusion. Today, you don't really have to be socially active because there are places like this on the internet, where you can interact with people that share your interests(though, forums like the Escapist aren't so closed and it'd be more like communities built around singular things) and once you leave that screen, you are once again in a world that doesn't understand you, you are alone. It can be a sickening feeling.

I don't know if video games desensitize kids, because I'm still pretty affected by it. Like in LA Noire during the homicide desk with the 'Werewolf', seeing those bodies, it made me sick to think even for a moment someone could do that (since many of those cases are based in real crimes, at least on that part of the homicide desk. Lol) And everyone is kind of affected differently by stimuli.

It's hard to say what causes someone to go and gun down strangers and people who victimized you a-like. Maybe it's being mentally unbalances, where before you'd stick your sick kids up in the attic or have them lobotomized. Now these people are being introduced to society, drugged up to behave normally instead of being guided to a more stable mindset. Though, I'm no authority on this and this is nothing but broad, broad semi-educated guesses.

TL;DR haha

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Violence is nothing new, however The idea of getting your own back on society by shooting up your school is, and due to the availability of guns, desensitisation to violence found in all forms of media, and the ready idea that shooting up a school is something that will make you infamous, get you on national TV, etc. that idea has practically become a pop. culture phenomenon.

The blame for the explosion in school shootings stems somewhat from our and the media's fascination with them, otherwise most kids would never dream of doing something like that

(see from 1:40 onwards)

I would have to say that yes, videogames do have their part to play in desensitising kids to violence, but compared to the rest of the media, they are a small cog in a larger, more sinister machine.

 

[Thaluikhain]

School shootings are on the increase are they? Were? Is this in all nations that teach their kids not to fight each other, or just the US, or just part of the US?

 

[Vault101]

I dont know....

I didnt think school shootings were done by the type of guys that would "fight" with each other in that kind of way

I got the impression it was done by the outcast, the one alwys victimized for being "weird" the one that has no freinds and only fights because he has no choice (and gets beaten up) the one who snaps and deicided to take rvenge of the people and place that caused him so much pain

 

[cameron112497]

I think the what causes school shootings it a complete lack of a school's ability to stop verbal, and sometimes physical, abuse. Most schools operate on a "unless the teacher hears or sees it, it didnt happen" basis. With no amount of proof or evidence allowing a bully to be properly punished. Its especially bad because most schoolss try to appeal to parents and will find any excuse what so ever to be nuetral on the matter and either dole out no or equal amounts of punishment. This leads to things such as fights started by a bully, but the victim gets punished for defending himself. Or a victim lashing out in a physical way to verbal abuse.

This basicly makes it so that a bullied kid faces hell on earth every time he goes to school. Other kids bullying the kid, and then the faculty not seeming to give a shit. So what do some kids do? They pick up a gun, and get some revenge...

 

[cameron112497]

You dont need firearms to mass murder, just a will and a weapon.

Ofcourse it DOES make it easier, but your implying that the reason these turn lethal is because of firearms.

A better comparism would be knives instead of firearms, or fire instead of firearms.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

School shootings are lashing out in frustration. Such acts are common in principle. Except in the US, with firearms everywhere, they do it with firearms instead of fists.

And the NRA propagandists can lie and lie untill their pants catch fire spontaneously, but it's damn hard to commit a school shooting without a gun, and no amount of pro-violence pro-gun bullshit will change that fact.


As for underlying causes: Anything that causes frustration leads to it. High expectations, no perspectives, conformist culture, lots of rules, all things that lead kids to do crazy stuff to rebel, or lose all prospects and lash out in frustration.

Firearms aren't "everywhere". They're banned in several places, such as government buildings and schools.

Also, you still don't understand the NRA and why it exists, do you?

OT: I was wondering when someone was going to post a thread on this. Simply put, I don't think we have enough facts in the matter yet to draw a conclusion on what caused this matter.

 

[Dante DiVongola]

I honestly believe that a good fist fight is just what some kids need a lot of the times. Parents will always try and teach that logic and reasoning is the answer when children really aren't ready to understand that on an intellectual level like adults do. Sure, parents should encourage their kids to try and go to a teacher before confronting a bully one-on-one and to use their heads above their fists. But to duke it out is something that can be positive for both sides. It'll first and foremost get most of the aggression out of the way. It'll also give the kids more self-esteem that they can handle things in life better because they've had experience handling wild situations.

Now when it comes to school shootings, most of these kids are repressed from venting feelings of anger in a healthy manner. Instead of maybe confronting the problems they have, they're told to 'deal with it' or 'let the adults take care of things', leaving them helpless and bitter. Having situations like this present throughout your life will make you more likely to snap and be overly-aggressive towards your peers or towards yourself. This leads up to the need/want to kill people to feel a sense of control and to feel like they are mature enough to handle a big situation such as a shooting. So do your kids a favor, next time they get into a big argument with another kid, don't sit them in timeout. Give them both some gloves or boxing tape and let them settle the score until they either tucker out or one starts making decent physical damage.

 

[larryparker]

This is important question this gun culture is destroying out society, first of all government needs to strict the law for gun license policies, so the less guns for youngsters who like to carry small pistols in hands every where.