Scientists create lesbian mice: has the 'Gay Gene' been found?

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Jovlo

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May 12, 2008
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Genetic research is fun.
Most of it is the poke-it-with-a-stick-and-see-what-happens kind of research.
Korean scientists wanted to find out what the function of a certain gene in the mouse genome was by deleting it. The mice looked no different than usual, although maybe a bit less fat. To everyone's surprise though, the female mice lost interest in males. They even tried to seduce and mate with other female mice.

They named the gene... FucM. (It stands for fucose mutarotase, but it's just a funny coincidence.)

How does this work then?
After dissecting the mice (poor little things), the scientists found out that part of the hypothalamus (a part of the brain that controls lots of important hormones, sexual and not sexual) had changed. In normal mice, this part is 2 to 4 times bigger in females than in males. In the female mice with the deleted gene, this part of the brain is just as small as in the males. Apparently this gene regulates the effect of the female hormone oestrogen on the brain. If the gene is working, the brain will develop as a normal female, if not, whether because it has been deleted or by natural mutation, the mouse will be born lesbian.

And now the interesting part:
"Other researchers have shown that the neural circuits underlying male behaviours are likely to exist in the normal female mouse brain, and the reverse is probably true. It is also likely that the embryonic human brain has the capacity to differentiate along both the male and female pathways, depending upon exposure to sex hormones during the early stages of development."

The FucM gene is also in the human genome, but it's unlikely that it causes women to be gay. Just like in mice, the hypothalamus of gay people is different than in straight people, but this time, that change is caused by the hormone progesterone, and not by oestrogen. It is though only a matter of time before the actual human 'Gay Gene' (or even Gay Genes, which I think is more likely) will be found.

link: http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2010/07/researchers_create_lesbian_mice.php

Edit: Oh and I forgot the discussion part.
I've noticed how many people (even here) are convinced that homosexuality can't be genetic.
If a gay gene would be found, would you think people would be more acceptive towards not-straight people, or wouldn't that change a thing because nobody knows a thing about genetics?
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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Sexuality is a complex issue. One of the major flaws in studying "gay genes" in animals is that gay isn't just behavioral. Gay people aren't just (fe)males who have sex with (fe)males. Gay people identify with their birth gender, and find others of that gender attractive. For all we know, this may actually be a "trans gene".

This is a pretty big problem for applying specific human psychological terms to animals generally. That said, it's more evidence that physiology affects our behavior and preferences. It's in the same vein as studies of taste genes. Our preferences are biologically influenced, these preferences influence our behavior.

I think people would stubbornly deny evidence for genetic factors. As it is people do a pretty good job denying the likelihood that it is, in part, dictated by physical processes.
 

Kollega

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Well, from my open-minded yet non-educated viewpoint, i can see two things - one good and one bad.

The good one is that if there are in fact "gay genes" or something similar, then it means sexuality is not exactly a choice. It would also mean that discrimination against homosexuals is pretty close to racism in some aspects.

The bad one is that if it's true, some parents would try to modify their not-yet-born children's genes so they would become straight (as was parodied above when i was still typing).

Just try not to bash me for all the things i've probably got wrong here, alright? I have the best intentions in mind.
 

Valkyrie101

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Well I suspected this was the case anyway, so I'm not surprised. Doubt it'll change much though: people who accept gays will continue to do so, religious fundamentalists will ignore the science as usual, and homophobes will probably continue to be homophobic.

This is, of course, unless they find a way to remove the gay gene and eliminate homosexuality, which would probably change things quite a bit.
 

the Dept of Science

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There are hints that homosexuality are largly based on nature rather than nurture. In surveys of twins separated at birth where one has become gay, there is something like an 80% chance that the other will be gay, significantly higher than the normal 10% chance.
Obviously the fact that it isn't 100% shows that there are other factors involved, but traits at birth seem to be the primary cause.

I think it would be a big kick in the teeth to all those people (generally homophobes) who say that its a choice to be gay.
 

L4hlborg

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People who say that homosexuality is not genetic usually are people who say that homosexuality is somehow morally wrong. These people are usually the type of people who cannot be convinced otherwise. Ofcource there are a few sceptics here and there who refuse to believe something that hasn't been fully proved by science, but I'm pretty sure they are the minority.
 

Gralian

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Sep 24, 2008
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Kollega said:
Well, from my open-minded yet non-educated viewpoint, i can see two things - one good and one bad.

The good one is that if there are in fact "gay genes" or something similar, then it means sexuality is not exactly a choice. It would also mean that discrimination against homosexuals is pretty close to racism in some aspects.

The bad one is that if it's true, some parents would try to modify their not-yet-born children's genes so they would become straight.

Just try not to bash me for all the things i've probably got wrong here, alright? I have the best intentions in mind.
Designer babies are not a new concept. It goes on today already. Determining the sexual preference of the child is just one more addition to that. Where it becomes a problem is if the child doesn't quite turn out the way the parents expected. For example, the child was 'designed' to be straight but becomes gay later in life either out of genetics, environmental influences, behaviour or choice and the parents actively blame that child for not 'turning out the way they wanted'.

I think identifying the gene is bad news. You'll get even more people saying "you chose to be gay!" as opposed to just putting it down to nature and be done with it.
 

Jovlo

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Kollega said:
The bad one is that if it's true, some parents would try to modify their not-yet-born children's genes so they would become straight (as was parodied above when i was still typing).

Just try not to bash me for all the things i've probably got wrong here, alright? I have the best intentions in mind.
Valkyrie101 said:
This is, of course, unless they find a way to remove the gay gene and eliminate homosexuality, which would probably change things quite a bit.
Well, once you are conceived, there is no way to alter your genes. So removing the a gene is impossible.
You can however silence the effect of a gene, or try to replace its missing effect.
You see, a gene is a blueprint for an enzyme or another protein, which has it's effect in the body.
If the gene is damaged, the enzyme won't work. What could happen is that people would start researching a 'cure' for homosexuality
You could try to replace the defunct enzyme with something similar, or try to destroy an unwanted enzyme through medication.

That leads to an interesting question: Is it ethical to try to 'cure' homosexuality if it were possible?
Or should we accept everyone as they are?
 

tomtom94

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May 11, 2009
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Can they prove that it had nothing to do with the upbringing of the mice? Until then, I refuse to believe in a "gay gene".
 

Jovlo

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Eldarion said:
So how do you explain bisexuality?
Aha! Good question! That is why I suggested that there are more than one 'Gay Genes'.
In the fifties, psychologist Alfred Kinsey studied the sexuality of thousands of Americans.
He found out that sexuality isn't a black-and-white situation. There's a lot of gray and shades of bisexuality. Being 100% straight or gay was rather rare according to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

Now, some traits, like your height, are determined by additive genes. The more 'Tall Genes' you have, the taller you are.
But there is not just one gene that will make you tall. This is why I think there must be several 'Gay Genes'.
 

manythings

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tomtom94 said:
Can they prove that it had nothing to do with the upbringing of the mice? Until then, I refuse to believe in a "gay gene".
I'm getting a vision of female mice getting hit by their fathers and so never trusting men enough to be around them. It's funny in a ridiculous way but I'm pretty sure it's not something that should come to mind if you are an alright person... then again I've known plenty of normal people who are fuckers.

Didn't they "discover" the gay gene in humans about 10 years ago? It was called XQ29. I could be thinking of something else entirely so someone feel free to correct me.
 

Eekaida

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To me, all this experiment proves is that if you take something important froma female brain (genes, hormones, whatever) then it will start acting male. The same is true of the reverse. While still genetically female, their brains were saying 'I'm male, and this is what Males do.' I don't know any gay women who think that way.
 

Keava

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I find that a little worrying. We already have plenty of homophobes wanting to send homosexual people into clinics to 'cure' them and such research only gives them 'hope' that they can indeed change homosexual people into straight people, or heterics as it's commonly called. I don't think it could in any form actually help the homosexual society at all.

Now as for the fact whenever homosexuality is genetic or not. Pretty much most of our defining features are somewhat connected to genes, so i can't see why sexual orientation wouldn't. After all it is not something as abstract as religion. You don't become gay over night, you might just not realize it or want to cover it, but it's not something you can just turn on and off whenever you feel like.

The more interesting part actually is the fact of brain being able to follow either genders path. It gives another proof for the whole gender-studies and an argument for those fighting the view we are locked with our physical gender and everything else is just a mental disorder. And that's what the article is mainly about.
 

Macgyvercas

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Feb 19, 2009
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I think homosexuality is partly genetic, partly environment, and partly personal choice.

As for the mice, this is interesting, but I'm not sure what they hope to achieve with this type of research. Why can't they work to kill cancer or something?
 

Kollega

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Jovlo said:
That leads to an interesting question: Is it ethical to try to 'cure' homosexuality if it were possible?
Or should we accept everyone as they are?
No, it isn't ethical. It's like trying to "cure" a dark skin tone: opressive, bigoted, and ultimately futile.
 

NinjaKiwi

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Kollega said:
The good one is that if there are in fact "gay genes" or something similar, then it means sexuality is not exactly a choice. It would also mean that discrimination against homosexuals is pretty close to racism in some aspects.
This would also have some interesting political side effects as well. If homosexuality is accepted as genetic (or at least partially) and not "a choice" as is believed by many, then we would be a large step closer to legalizing same sex marriage in the United States (we already have it up here in Canada). If homosexuality was found to be genetic then denying marriage to someone who is LGBT could be seen as unconstitutional.