Seatbelt on, cigarettes out.

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Cyanin

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So, I've just heard a very interesting proposal from the (Irish) Minister for Health on the radio. One of two things to implement.

1) A ban on smoking in cars with children under 16 or...

2) An outright, catch-all ban on smoking.

And I thought this could be an interesting topic to think about. I personally hate smoking, but I can tolerate it. Usually I wouldn't mind it, but it's the idea of forcing people to be around you while you smoke which is proven to be...well fatal long term.

The figure they gave on the radio was that, in Ireland alone, 16 people die every day due to the effects of smoking. Both my parents smoke and very recent memories of being simply trapped in a car make me completely agree with the first one, but I'm not too keen on crushing civil liberty and banning it altogether.

That said, there are people who think that allowing the first would only be a stepping stone to the second.

My opinion on smoking is that if it was discovered today, it would be banned without a thought.

Also, to specify, I'm talking about tobacco and nicotine. This isn't related to marijuana or smoking anything else. So Escapists, what do you think about that?

EDIT: I think the point of law (1) is to protect children who are stuck in a car with smokers, not to prevent distraction from smoking as some people seem to be assuming.
 

TheXRatedDodo

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Prohibiting things does not help anyone.
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.

And as for an outright ban on smoking, fuck that. We should all have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies, even if it harms us. Because guess what, if I want to full my lungs with tar, that's my goddamn choice.
 

FaceFaceFace

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TheXRatedDodo said:
Prohibiting things does not help anyone.
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.

And as for an outright ban on smoking, fuck that. We should all have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies, even if it harms us. Because guess what, if I want to full my lungs with tar, that's my goddamn choice.
Unfortunately, secondhand smoke fills other people's lungs with tar (and that end of the cigarette doesn't even have a filter like the smoker's end does), and that certainly should not be your choice.
 

MetalMagpie

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TheXRatedDodo said:
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.
While I completely agree with you that anyone considered by the law to be an adult should be allowed to do whatever harmful stuff to their body that they want, I'm not sure you're right with the above comment.

If anything, the evidence is that smoking around children makes them MORE likely to take it up themselves. Which is logical if you think about it. Children have a tendency to imitate their parents' behaviour (good AND bad), and being around cigarette smoke from a young age will get them used to the smell (so it will bother them less).

But yes, placing a ban on an activity that is doing harm to no one but the person DOING that activity (e.g. someone smoking alone at home) is wrong.
 

XxSummonerxX

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I refuse to get in a car with someone who smokes. I'm slightly asthmatic and have a heart condition, so slightly biased, but I'm not risking major health complications, just so they can give themselves cancer.

An outright ban? No. Ban in public places or anywhere that does not specifically say "YOU CAN SMOKE HERE", yes please. Ban near children, schools, playgrounds, etc. very yes.
 

HentMas

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Cyanin said:
Also, to specify, I'm talking about tobacco and nicotine. This isn't related to marijuana or smoking anything else. So Escapists, what do you think about that?
I think that little piece right there is hypocritical in many levels

but anyway, I still think that "banning" cigarettes is just another way of making people rich, remember the prohibition era? i mean, it was just a scale after scale of violence, and banning cigarettes is just adding another drug to the pile of drugs that make profit to the smugglers, and its not even a drug that can be considered "aggressive" it doesn't changes your state of mind to the point of you not being able to know what you are doing (unlike alcohol and harder drugs) hell I have never heard of a guy running over another guy because he was under the influence of a fag!

but the first point shouldn´t be a criminal offense, i mean, its just common sense, poor kids if their parents cant hold their urges... but well, i understand stupid people do things without thinking... perhaps if we add it as say trowing trash in the highway? a fine and all, but not a "GO TO JAIL NOW!!!" offense... i mean, they should really be educating people instead of sending them to jail in my opinion, like what they are doing right now i am sure most of the guys reading this dont smoke because in their time the cigarette has being taken out of TV ads and other places, i grew up with Adds everywhere and i dont find smoking as "offensive" as you younger people, times change, but i still think my right of smoking shouldn´t be lifted that easily...
 

TheXRatedDodo

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MetalMagpie said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.
While I completely agree with you that anyone considered by the law to be an adult should be allowed to do whatever harmful stuff to their body that they want, I'm not sure you're right with the above comment.

If anything, the evidence is that smoking around children makes them MORE likely to take it up themselves. Which is logical if you think about it. Children have a tendency to imitate their parents' behaviour (good AND bad), and being around cigarette smoke from a young age will get them used to the smell (so it will bother them less).

But yes, placing a ban on an activity that is doing harm to no one but the person DOING that activity (e.g. someone smoking alone at home) is wrong.
Sure, but how exactly would such a ban (in-car smoking) be enforced exactly?
 

Monkfish Acc.

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It is fucking hilarious that we have to put laws in place to make people do the polite thing and not smoke around non-smokers.
That's just a fucking given, you know? Go outside, or to the smoking section. If you are with a non-smoker, ask if they are cool with it. If there are kids about, fucking move. Don't blow in anyone's face, and don't leave the butts just fucking lying around, still half-lit. Basically, be fucking considerate

But banning outright is just dumb. So dumb I would actually like to see them try.
That's not fucking happening.
 

TheXRatedDodo

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FaceFaceFace said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
Prohibiting things does not help anyone.
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.

And as for an outright ban on smoking, fuck that. We should all have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies, even if it harms us. Because guess what, if I want to full my lungs with tar, that's my goddamn choice.
Unfortunately, secondhand smoke fills other people's lungs with tar (and that end of the cigarette doesn't even have a filter like the smoker's end does), and that certainly should not be your choice.
Speaking as a smoker, I agree completely. If I am with friends who do not smoke, I tend to ask them first if they mind if I have a cigarette in their presence. If they have a problem with it, I don't smoke.
That's just common courtesy, not a legal issue, surely?
 

Funkysandwich

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Jan 15, 2010
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Smoking with children in the car is already illegal here in Australia. I am 100% in favour of this.
 

Kaytastrophe

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They already have the first law in effect in Ontario Canada, you are not allowed to smoke in your car with any under the age of 16-18 (i think) in your vehicle. We have yet to ban smoking outright yet. I myself am personally indifferent. The thing I wonder is, if you make it illegal to smoke in your car if there are kids what about smoking in a small apartment building, is that not dangerous? Is there a size of house that is safe for smoking in? I don't know I grew up with a chain smoking dad who smoked in the car and I turned out fine.
 

MetalMagpie

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TheXRatedDodo said:
MetalMagpie said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.
While I completely agree with you that anyone considered by the law to be an adult should be allowed to do whatever harmful stuff to their body that they want, I'm not sure you're right with the above comment.

If anything, the evidence is that smoking around children makes them MORE likely to take it up themselves. Which is logical if you think about it. Children have a tendency to imitate their parents' behaviour (good AND bad), and being around cigarette smoke from a young age will get them used to the smell (so it will bother them less).

But yes, placing a ban on an activity that is doing harm to no one but the person DOING that activity (e.g. someone smoking alone at home) is wrong.
Sure, but how exactly would such a ban (in-car smoking) be enforced exactly?
The same way they enforce the ban on using mobile phones at the wheel: Sporadically.

I didn't say that a ban on smoking in cars would be effective, or even have much of a measurable positive outcome if it WERE effective. I just wanted to point out that parents smoking out cars with their children in is UNLIKELY to have some sort of "bonus" positive outcome either.
 

Veldel

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Yes ban it please hell bring it to the US I cant stand that shit when people do it makes me ill and is so fucking inconsiderate fucking ask before lighting up blowing in the face and hurting everyone who chooses not to want that shitty habbit
 

FaceFaceFace

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TheXRatedDodo said:
FaceFaceFace said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
Prohibiting things does not help anyone.
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.

And as for an outright ban on smoking, fuck that. We should all have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies, even if it harms us. Because guess what, if I want to full my lungs with tar, that's my goddamn choice.
Unfortunately, secondhand smoke fills other people's lungs with tar (and that end of the cigarette doesn't even have a filter like the smoker's end does), and that certainly should not be your choice.
Speaking as a smoker, I agree completely. If I am with friends who do not smoke, I tend to ask them first if they mind if I have a cigarette in their presence. If they have a problem with it, I don't smoke.
That's just common courtesy, not a legal issue, surely?
I don't actually know just how effective secondhand smoke is in public areas. I don't imagine it's too detrimental since most of it probably just floats away into the sky, but if it is noticeably unhealthy for random passerbys or it causes noticeable pollution, I'd say its a legal issue, otherwise, I agree it's just common courtesy. Of course, common courtesy, like common sense, isn't all that common, and I personally wouldn't mind some legally enforced courtesy.
 

aba1

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I tend to feel at least here in Canada people are starting to get a stigma towards smokers. I have seen people talk ill of others simply because they enjoy a smoke to relax and it all started with laws like this pushing the idea that if you smoke you are almost the equivilant to a murderer I think the goverment needs to lay off smokers a bit. I agree a parent shouldnt force a kid to sit in there smoke while driving but all out banning smokes seems silly and as much as people say its not going to happen its obvious it will every year somthing new happens to make it that much harder to smoke.
 

Cyanin

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Dec 25, 2009
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HentMas said:
Cyanin said:
Also, to specify, I'm talking about tobacco and nicotine. This isn't related to marijuana or smoking anything else. So Escapists, what do you think about that?
I think that little piece right there is hypocritical in many levels

but anyway, I still think that "banning" cigarettes is just another way of making people rich, remember the prohibition era? i mean, it was just a scale after scale of violence, and banning cigarettes is just adding another drug to the pile of drugs that make profit to the smugglers, and its not even a drug that can be considered "aggressive" it doesn't changes your state of mind to the point of you not being able to know what you are doing (unlike alcohol and harder drugs) hell I have never heard of a guy running over another guy because he was under the influence of a fag!

but the first point shouldn´t be a criminal offense, i mean, its just common sense, poor kids if their parents cant hold their urges... but well, i understand stupid people do things without thinking... perhaps if we add it as say trowing trash in the highway? a fine and all, but not a "GO TO JAIL NOW!!!" offense... i mean, they should really be educating people instead of sending them to jail in my opinion, like what they are doing right now i am sure most of the guys reading this dont smoke because in their time the cigarette has being taken out of TV ads and other places, i grew up with Adds everywhere and i dont find smoking as "offensive" as you younger people, times change, but i still think my right of smoking shouldn´t be lifted that easily...
Sorry I may not have been clear enough, I'm saying it doesn't involve weed etc because that wasn't what the Health Minister was talking about. The idea that a driver would be "under the influence" of smoking does seem ridiculous, I agree.

However, you would have to admit that someone would feel distracted while driving if all they can think about is lighting up when they get out of the car...

But that's irrelevant. The first law would be to protect children from parents who keep them in the backseat for any length of time, in a confined space, while they smoke. It is absolutely disgusting, from experience. (Being stuck around it)

The law would be protecting the powerless, and in Ireland by making it a law prohibiting it I doubt breaking it would mean 25 to life, it'd be a fine and some penalty points (a driving thing)
 

Cyanin

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Dec 25, 2009
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FaceFaceFace said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
FaceFaceFace said:
TheXRatedDodo said:
Prohibiting things does not help anyone.
Smoking out a car with your children in it is probably enough of a deterrent to stop them from smoking, and if it isn't, maybe it'll make them respectful enough to not do the same thing.

And as for an outright ban on smoking, fuck that. We should all have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies, even if it harms us. Because guess what, if I want to full my lungs with tar, that's my goddamn choice.
Unfortunately, secondhand smoke fills other people's lungs with tar (and that end of the cigarette doesn't even have a filter like the smoker's end does), and that certainly should not be your choice.
Speaking as a smoker, I agree completely. If I am with friends who do not smoke, I tend to ask them first if they mind if I have a cigarette in their presence. If they have a problem with it, I don't smoke.
That's just common courtesy, not a legal issue, surely?
I don't actually know just how effective secondhand smoke is in public areas. I don't imagine it's too detrimental since most of it probably just floats away into the sky, but if it is noticeably unhealthy for random passerbys or it causes noticeable pollution, I'd say its a legal issue, otherwise, I agree it's just common courtesy. Of course, common courtesy, like common sense, isn't all that common, and I personally wouldn't mind some legally enforced courtesy.
See, courtesy is all well and good... when you're an adult. But consider children who won't try to stop their parents. Doctors and all that jazz say that smoke building up in a confined space is incredibly detrimental to a developing child.

To say that children seeing parents smoking will get them on the habit I actually disagree with. I have two brothers, one smokes fully, one socially and I don't at all. We've all been around at least on of my two smoking parents for most of our lives. If there's one thing my parents have shown me, it's that smoking long term is disgusting. I'm amazed children of smokers would take it up from parents. I'd say films, TV (To a limited extent) and social pressure is a far bigger factor.
 

HentMas

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Apr 17, 2009
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Cyanin said:
However, you would have to admit that someone would feel distracted while driving if all they can think about is lighting up when they get out of the car...
sorry, I agree with everything said except this little part, I have being a Smoker for 7 years now, I have a 3 years old kid, I smoke one pack (20 fags) of Marlboro reds a day, but i have never in my life felt such an "urge" to smoke that would get me distracted from driving, or not able to think straight and I don´t smoke when I have my kid in the car (or inside the house, as i said, common sense), the only noticeable symptom from not smoking for a long period of time is testiness, i mean, getting annoyed easily at other people, but if you KNOW its because you haven't had your fag, its completely controllable... at least for me, i know people that really get stupid angry but thats more about character than the fault of the smokes, people tend to think the "cigarette" addiction exactly like any other drug addiction, whereas i have never seen have withdrawal symptoms that cant be manageable with a candy or a lollipop (unlike Alcohol, which i have heard the "Delirium tremens" is unbearable)

so ya, being addicted to a cigarette, not the same at all to being addicted to anything else, not even Video Games in which there have being cases of people other than the gamer dying because they couldn't turn off the damn game :p.