Self-harm

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Snowy Rainbow

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Jun 13, 2011
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Well, I was diagnosed with depression many years ago and have since been on various medications and treatments, going through half a dozen shrinks and a hospital or two after an interrupted suicide attempt. While recovering I was finally put onto a pretty awesome (and high) dose of a drug I've since come to see as a lifesaver. My life got a lot better and getting out of bed seemed doable for the first time in a long time. The future looked bright and I saw myself in it. But lately I've been going back down hill; I've lapsed back into old habits of self-harm after a long stint without any such incident. What begun with the occasional and all too familiar cutting of the wrists has quickly become slashed wrists, arms, legs and neck. Obviously when I'm thinking clearly and am not super depressed I see how destructive that behavior is, but in the moment, when I'm completely alone, sad and seemingly without hope, nothing feels better than that. I'm wondering if anyone here has gone through something akin to my situation and could offer advice? It seems like I've gone through every trick in the book to avoid the knife, but nothing helps.

Well, any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

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Apr 11, 2011
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I've not reached the point of self harm, but I've been damn close, so I can't offer great advice. But the best thing to do as I see it, would be to talk about and find out any reasons for your depression, that one really helped me, and most importantly always do things to keep yourself happy, on a personal level that's hanging around with my gf a lot, though I get not everyone would be ok with the amount of time we're together, but she understands about my problem and always tries to make me smile.

So basically, surround yourself in people and things that make you happy and try your best not to think about your depression too much.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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Jun 13, 2011
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
I've not reached the point of self harm, but I've been damn close, so I can't offer great advice. But the best thing to do as I see it, would be to talk about and find out any reasons for your depression, that one really helped me, and most importantly always do things to keep yourself happy, on a personal level that's hanging around with my gf a lot, though I get not everyone would be ok with the amount of time we're together, but she understands about my problem and always tries to make me smile.

So basically, surround yourself in people and things that make you happy and try your best not to think about your depression too much.
Thanks for dropping by.

OT: nothing really makes me happy unfortunately. It's pretty much a combination of the realization that my likelihood of ever getting better is minimal and my loneliness. The cutting is kinda like... a relief -- let's me get out a lot of sadness and stuff. I also feel like I deserve to be in pain for being so depressed.

I dunno. It's all pretty shitty and a bit too much.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

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Apr 11, 2011
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Snowy Rainbow said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
I've not reached the point of self harm, but I've been damn close, so I can't offer great advice. But the best thing to do as I see it, would be to talk about and find out any reasons for your depression, that one really helped me, and most importantly always do things to keep yourself happy, on a personal level that's hanging around with my gf a lot, though I get not everyone would be ok with the amount of time we're together, but she understands about my problem and always tries to make me smile.

So basically, surround yourself in people and things that make you happy and try your best not to think about your depression too much.
Thanks for dropping by.

OT: nothing really makes me happy unfortunately. It's pretty much a combination of the realization that my likelihood of ever getting better is minimal and my loneliness. The cutting is kinda like... a relief -- let's me get out a lot of sadness and stuff. I also feel like I deserve to be in pain for being so depressed.

I dunno. It's all pretty shitty and a bit too much.
It's been a while now since I've felt like that, but you need to remember that you don't deserve the pain, and there is happiness out there for everyone, but you need to find it. I used to be the same, I wouldn't feel anything, until, as I mentioned before, I met my gf, she's my one source of happiness in my life.

Admittedly, Not everyone has that, but I like to think the right person is out there for everyone, and always remember you have people who love and care for you, and will do whatever they can to help you.
 

SiskoBlue

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Aug 11, 2010
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Part of the problem is the basic addiction to it, in a sense you're an opiate addict. People who binge/purge bullimia have a similar cycle. Depressed, flat, frustrated, lonely, isolated. The term "flattened affect" describes it well (affect means emotion). It's not that things are getting you down, things could be absolutely fine but you feel no happiness, that's what the term depression really means, it's not sadness it's a depression.

When you cut yourself or purge you basically give yourself an andrenaline boost, endorphins also kick in. Endorphins are the bodies real version of opiates, morphine, heroin, methodine nicotine, caffeine, amphetamine... do you see a pattern? The endorphin receptors in the brain help ease pain and lift your mood. Actually it's not so much a "make me happy" which is usually serotonin, but more a "take the pain away" relief. Which is exactly what you described it as.

So the obvious answer is exercise. Intense exercise. After 5 minutes the endorphins kick in and that should fix it. It's also why people who do regular exercise don't suffer depression as much. Most people can do some exercise and that's fine, others go overboard and are gym-junkies (drug reference right there).

But here's what you have to consider. The symptoms of Depression are the result of a chemical reactions in the brain. But is the chemical change of depression caused by your body regardless of what you think and do? Or does your thinking and behaviour create a chemical change? There's lots of research on both sides and huge debates about it. No one can see for certain.

Personally I take the Dr Phil approach. In all behaviours, even destructive ones, you get something out of it. People often say "I want to change" but then feel they can't and then don't change, and part of that is refusing to admit the positive aspects they get out of something (relief/release in your case). So often people won't change until the negatives aspects completely overwhelm any positive. Hitting rock bottom. How bad would it have to be before you think you'd stop? If you go there now mentally it might help. This is not a scare tactic, just a cognitive (thought) exercise. Imagine the place you would be when releasing you're hitting rock bottom.

Hopefully this should feel strangely carthatic? You should feel less pressure on yourself to stop cutting and think more about what you want. There are other ways to get it and you know that, and you should know you have that choice. You choose, not anyone else. And that's the difference, it's your choice or nothing. I have other helpful tips if this has been helpful at all. Hope it goes ok for you.

Good luck.
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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Hello Snowy,

My girlfriend also struggles with cutting. Know that you're not the only one who deals with this. Going cold turkey rarely works, if ever. The best advice I can give is to find someone who you trust, who you feel that you can confide in. Since meeting my gf last April, she's had a few relapses, but they've healed up well. The biggest thing that you can do to help yourself is find someone you can trust. You need somebody who can tend to your wounds and not judge you for it. It's easier said than done. My gf gave me this book [http://www.amazon.com/Cutting-Understanding-Self-Mutilation-Steven-Levenkron/dp/0393319385/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1308753549&sr=8-2], which really sheds new light on the topic. Anyone that you get to help you should definitely read it for themselves. You'd probably stand to learn a lot from it, too.

Either way, you're not alone. Remember that and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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SiskoBlue said:
But here's what you have to consider. The symptoms of Depression are the result of a chemical reactions in the brain. But is the chemical change of depression caused by your body regardless of what you think and do? Or does your thinking and behaviour create a chemical change? There's lots of research on both sides and huge debates about it. No one can see for certain.
Just throwing my piece in, I don't know if depression is caused by outside things or if it was with me from birth, but I've always connected it to some family issues I had (And continue to have) since they occurred at the same time, but I've also seen people with seemingly fine lives who suffer from it, so maybe the timing was just coincidence, or perhaps the truth lies between the two.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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Jun 13, 2011
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SiskoBlue said:
Part of the problem is the basic addiction to it, in a sense you're an opiate addict. People who binge/purge bullimia have a similar cycle. Depressed, flat, frustrated, lonely, isolated. The term "flattened affect" describes it well (affect means emotion). It's not that things are getting you down, things could be absolutely fine but you feel no happiness, that's what the term depression really means, it's not sadness it's a depression.

When you cut yourself or purge you basically give yourself an andrenaline boost, endorphins also kick in. Endorphins are the bodies real version of opiates, morphine, heroin, methodine nicotine, caffeine, amphetamine... do you see a pattern? The endorphin receptors in the brain help ease pain and lift your mood. Actually it's not so much a "make me happy" which is usually serotonin, but more a "take the pain away" relief. Which is exactly what you described it as.

So the obvious answer is exercise. Intense exercise. After 5 minutes the endorphins kick in and that should fix it. It's also why people who do regular exercise don't suffer depression as much. Most people can do some exercise and that's fine, others go overboard and are gym-junkies (drug reference right there).

But here's what you have to consider. The symptoms of Depression are the result of a chemical reactions in the brain. But is the chemical change of depression caused by your body regardless of what you think and do? Or does your thinking and behaviour create a chemical change? There's lots of research on both sides and huge debates about it. No one can see for certain.

Personally I take the Dr Phil approach. In all behaviours, even destructive ones, you get something out of it. People often say "I want to change" but then feel they can't and then don't change, and part of that is refusing to admit the positive aspects they get out of something (relief/release in your case). So often people won't change until the negatives aspects completely overwhelm any positive. Hitting rock bottom. How bad would it have to be before you think you'd stop? If you go there now mentally it might help. This is not a scare tactic, just a cognitive (thought) exercise. Imagine the place you would be when releasing you're hitting rock bottom.

Hopefully this should feel strangely carthatic? You should feel less pressure on yourself to stop cutting and think more about what you want. There are other ways to get it and you know that, and you should know you have that choice. You choose, not anyone else. And that's the difference, it's your choice or nothing. I have other helpful tips if this has been helpful at all. Hope it goes ok for you.

Good luck.
Thanks for all the advice and support.

I've actually tried exercise in the past. I found it helps a bit if I have a really good workout, but it doesn't satisfy the other part of the issue -- that part of the cutting is like a punishment, kinda. I guess I hate myself so much that the more pain I'm in and the deeper the cuts, the more anger I get out. Sort of like if someone was making your life hell, beating the crap out of them would feel great, lol.

I think rock bottom was when I was scheduled and forced into the mental health hospital. That's when I pretty much realized it was as bad as it could go. If anything, being there was better than here - at least there I knew it couldn't get worse. The thought of having to get better just makes me wanna give up even more.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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Snowy Rainbow said:
You need to realise that you don't deserve the pain, no matter what happens you don't.

Take this a a terrible joke if you want, but if you actually seem to like the pain and you don't seem to be able or want to be able (subconsciously anyway) to stop and get better, maybe you have a slightly submissive personality, I know I do, and I guess part of the reason I try so much to get better is because I'm doing it for someone else, not for myself.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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Jun 13, 2011
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
You need to realise that you don't deserve the pain, no matter what happens you don't.

Take this a a terrible joke if you want, but if you actually seem to like the pain and you don't seem to be able or want to be able (subconsciously anyway) to stop and get better, maybe you have a slightly submissive personality, I know I do, and I guess part of the reason I try so much to get better is because I'm doing it for someone else, not for myself.
Interesting that you'd say that. I'm actually a very controlling, dominant person. Lots of people seem to think I'm submissive for some reason, lol.

I guess "deserve" isn't the right word. More like... I'm the reason I'm miserable and that makes me hate myself more, so I feel this need to be in pain and suffer. As if it was "the right thing to do" so to speak.

It's not like I want to die, but it's getting hard to want to keep living. I've used this metaphor before and I find it works well: it feels like I'm in the middle of the ocean, treading water to keep my head above the water. I don't want to drown, but I'm really tired. People tell me to just keep swimming and I'll get back to shore, but I've used so much energy just staying above water that I can't go anywhere. I don't have anyone to help me stay afloat, either. My parents love me, sure. But I don't even know if I want to bother letting them help. The longer I stay in it, the easier it seems to just stop trying and sink.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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Snowy Rainbow said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
You need to realise that you don't deserve the pain, no matter what happens you don't.

Take this a a terrible joke if you want, but if you actually seem to like the pain and you don't seem to be able or want to be able (subconsciously anyway) to stop and get better, maybe you have a slightly submissive personality, I know I do, and I guess part of the reason I try so much to get better is because I'm doing it for someone else, not for myself.
Interesting that you'd say that. I'm actually a very controlling, dominant person. Lots of people seem to think I'm submissive for some reason, lol.

I guess "deserve" isn't the right word. More like... I'm the reason I'm miserable and that makes me hate myself more, so I feel this need to be in pain and suffer. As if it was "the right thing to do" so to speak.

It's not like I want to die, but it's getting hard to want to keep living. I've used this metaphor before and I find it works well: it feels like I'm in the middle of the ocean, treading water to keep my head above the water. I don't want to drown, but I'm really tired. People tell me to just keep swimming and I'll get back to shore, but I've used so much energy just staying above water that I can't go anywhere. I don't have anyone to help me stay afloat, either. My parents love me, sure. But I don't even know if I want to bother letting them help. The longer I stay in it, the easier it seems to just stop trying and sink.

That is a very effective metaphor, and I can kind of relate, again, I never really got to that point, but I did have the feeling of 'what's the point in continuing to try anymore', and all I can say is the reason I got out of it was from my friends helping me, you really do need someone you can share with and to help you, it will help more that anything else.

Edit: My gf wanted to add her thoughts as well.
Hi, I've been reading your posts as well. About the being controlling and dominant, maybe the opposite of what she suggested then, perhaps having something or someone else to care for would take your mind of of yourself.
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
You need to realise that you don't deserve the pain, no matter what happens you don't.

Take this a a terrible joke if you want, but if you actually seem to like the pain and you don't seem to be able or want to be able (subconsciously anyway) to stop and get better, maybe you have a slightly submissive personality, I know I do, and I guess part of the reason I try so much to get better is because I'm doing it for someone else, not for myself.
The irony I see in your statement is that the cutting book my gf gave me recommends that people trying to help those with a history of self mutilation should avoid saying what you just said. Few self mutilators, if any, actually like harming themselves. For some, it's all they know, for others, depending on circumstances, it's a way to come to grips with reality. Dr. Levenkron likened it to the coping mechanisms that all humans use. The only difference being that cutting is destructive and potentially harmful to one's health.

Snowy, the fact that you've sought help, even if it's from us, is very good. It's the first step of a long and often difficult journey. While I don't live in your area, if you want someone to help hold you accountable, I'm willing to help. I bet my gf would be willing to help, too.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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ddrfr33k said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
You need to realise that you don't deserve the pain, no matter what happens you don't.

Take this a a terrible joke if you want, but if you actually seem to like the pain and you don't seem to be able or want to be able (subconsciously anyway) to stop and get better, maybe you have a slightly submissive personality, I know I do, and I guess part of the reason I try so much to get better is because I'm doing it for someone else, not for myself.
The irony I see in your statement is that the cutting book my gf gave me recommends that people trying to help those with a history of self mutilation should avoid saying what you just said. Few self mutilators, if any, actually like harming themselves. For some, it's all they know, for others, depending on circumstances, it's a way to come to grips with reality. Dr. Levenkron likened it to the coping mechanisms that all humans use. The only difference being that cutting is destructive and potentially harmful to one's health.

Snowy, the fact that you've sought help, even if it's from us, is very good. It's the first step of a long and often difficult journey. While I don't live in your area, if you want someone to help hold you accountable, I'm willing to help. I bet my gf would be willing to help, too.
I'm just saying what I feel helps me, While I've never actually reached the point of cutting myself, I have, and continue to have bouts of depression, and while previously I wasn't able to do anything, I now force myself to stop feeling like that because I don't want to upset my gf, so for me at least I'm doing it for her, not for myself.
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
I'm just saying what I feel helps me, While I've never actually reached the point of cutting myself, I have, and continue to have bouts of depression, and while previously I wasn't able to do anything, I now force myself to stop feeling like that because I don't want to upset my gf, so for me at least I'm doing it for her, not for myself.
And bravo for having someone who you can talk to and hold you accountable. That tends to go a long way for people in your situation. I mean that in the most non-sarcastic way possible. That's one thing that I've done for my gf, and it has helped a lot. Just being there to listen is huge. Not getting totally creeped out by the sight of blood helps.

Tell your gf that she's doing it right, btw. I've told my gf about this thread, hopefully she'll respond when she gets off of work.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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ddrfr33k said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
I'm just saying what I feel helps me, While I've never actually reached the point of cutting myself, I have, and continue to have bouts of depression, and while previously I wasn't able to do anything, I now force myself to stop feeling like that because I don't want to upset my gf, so for me at least I'm doing it for her, not for myself.
And bravo for having someone who you can talk to and hold you accountable. That tends to go a long way for people in your situation. I mean that in the most non-sarcastic way possible. That's one thing that I've done for my gf, and it has helped a lot. Just being there to listen is huge. Not getting totally creeped out by the sight of blood helps.

Tell your gf that she's doing it right, btw. I've told my gf about this thread, hopefully she'll respond when she gets off of work.
Thank you, though if I'm honest, it's not the talking to her that helps me. It's that whenever I seem depressed she simply tells me to be happy, and I do, though that's getting into another side of my personality.

But I do agree, having someone there with you to help you through it really helps.
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
Thank you, though if I'm honest, it's not the talking to her that helps me. It's that whenever I seem depressed she simply tells me to be happy, and I do, though that's getting into another side of my personality.

But I do agree, having someone there with you to help you through it really helps.
Ah, my gf does the same thing to me. I cannot think of myself in a positive light for the life of me. My gf had to beat me over the head until I could say something positive about myself. That was quite the experience...
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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ddrfr33k said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
Thank you, though if I'm honest, it's not the talking to her that helps me. It's that whenever I seem depressed she simply tells me to be happy, and I do, though that's getting into another side of my personality.

But I do agree, having someone there with you to help you through it really helps.
Ah, my gf does the same thing to me. I cannot think of myself in a positive light for the life of me. My gf had to beat me over the head until I could say something positive about myself. That was quite the experience...
Haha, I doubt it's quite the same. ;P
Lol, sorry, couldn't help that. But I'm still the same, I can rarely see myself in a good light and rarely can accept compliments without my gf making me.
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
Haha, I doubt it's quite the same. ;P
Lol, sorry, couldn't help that. But I'm still the same, I can rarely see myself in a good light and rarely can accept compliments without my gf making me.
You win this time, Mr. Bond... :p
 

AnkaraTheFallen

May contain a lot of Irn Bru
Apr 11, 2011
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ddrfr33k said:
AnkaraTheFallen said:
Haha, I doubt it's quite the same. ;P
Lol, sorry, couldn't help that. But I'm still the same, I can rarely see myself in a good light and rarely can accept compliments without my gf making me.
You win this time, Mr. Bond... :p
Lol, sorry, I couldn't help but make that joke XD
Lol, she's hopeless XD lol
 

ddrfr33k

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Nov 11, 2010
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AnkaraTheFallen said:
ddrfr33k said:
You win this time, Mr. Bond... :p
Lol, sorry, I couldn't help but make that joke XD
Lol, she's hopeless XD lol
Yes, yes she is... :D

Sun should be coming up soon down under. Perhaps snowy will be on again soon.