"Sexist" toys

[Bob_McMillan]

As you can probably guess, this was prompted by this thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.867644-French-feminists-secretly-plant-pamphlets-in-hundreds-of-childrens-toys-labeling-them-sexist. One of the posters brought up the Nerf Rebelle series. You can look at all of them here: http://www.hasbro.com/rebelle/en_us/.

So while I was strolling around in the mall, I just so happened upon the Nerf area in the department store. It wasn't the first time I had seen these toys, and I always thought "That's sexist as fuck!". I was with my family though, and my sister expressed interest in one of the toys, which she eventually bought and is currently shooting everything with it (I may or may not have tried it myself) So I was thinking, yeah, that's why these toys are sexist, because they entice girls to buy it as now there are Nerf toys are for girls, when in reality there should be no problem with girls using regular Nerf guns. But I remembered that my sister is a girl who asked for, and received, a Nerf shotgun from Santa Claus. I asked her if these toys offended her, and she said no, in fact she said she was glad they thought to make toys for them too. She is by the way 12 years old. Her older sister by one year does find them sexist, but my older sister, who I consider extremely smart and is a Humanities student, also is confused about whether these toys can be considered sexist or not. I mean, isn't it actually kind of in line with feminism? They didn't market Nerf to girls before, but now they do, does that not make it equal? Its not like the toys are inferior or anything, they just have a different background (its supposed to be spy themed, while the male equivalent was like special operations) and paint jobs.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[NPC009]

Tricky question. It would be one thing if girls were already into nerf guns and these were just added as another colour variety. That's cool. It's nice to have many colours and designs to choose from. Nerf toys were not much of a thing when I was young, but I guess I could compare it to the bows I used as a teen. One of my favourites was a white recurve (good quality too, so no complaints there), I thought it looked elegant compared to the camo composite bows many of the boys prefered. Not having that bow wouldn't have made me disinterested in archery, but I sure as hell liked being able to use a bow I thought looked cool.

But the feeling I'm getting is that to many girls, this new line feels more like a permission slip to check out nerf toys. "Oh, they come in girl colours now, so it's okay if girls play with them." If that's the intention of the producers and buyers, that would be sexist.

 

[Vault101]

But the feeling I'm getting is that to many girls, this new line feels more like a permission slip to check out nerf toys. "Oh, they come in girl colours now, so it's okay if girls play with them." .

thats a good way to describe it

in that I think people seriously underestimate the effect these things can have, that feeling of "this is not for you"

but its kind of a hard thing to answer, if a little girl is interested in something whats stopping her from doing it? I liked a lot of things that were [i/]clearly NOT[/i] marketed towards me, but I can say there was sometimes a little bit of self consciousness, particularly as I got older

for every girl who happily picks up a Teenage Mutant Ninja turtle figure there may be another who wanted it but knew, even at that age that it [i/]wasn't meant for her[/i]

and I don't know what the answer is, because making the Ninja turtles pink wouldn't be the answer...

I actually partially blame parents a bit, I know its hard but there's no reason you can't mix it up..particually for the girls

and there's no reason for things to be so segregated, I mean I know we often see whats considered "feminine" as inferior, but somtimes its not without reason

I mean for fuck sake there are t-shirts that say "training to be batmans wife" <-like seriously?

 

[NPC009]

for every girl who happily picks up a Teenage Mutant Ninja turtle figure there may be another who wanted it but knew, even at that age that it wasn't meant for her

and I don't know what the answer is, because making the Ninja turtles pink wouldn't be the answer...

I think the answer could be as simple as putting not just boys but girls as well on the packaging and in commercials. I mean, look at old Lego and its ads. For instance, in the early eighties they had this series of ads that pictured both boys and girls playing with the same bricks, proudly showing their creations to the viewer.

This is what I grew up with, but if I look at modern Lego sets, I can imagine young girls now get a different message.

(Here's an interview [http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/little-girl-1981-lego-ad-grown-shes-got-something-say/] with one of the women who posed for one such ad as a young girl, and a recreation of the ad with a modern lego.

 

[laggyteabag]

Damn, if it wasn't for the pink paint job and the fact that the toys were covered in stupid wing decals, they actually look like pretty nice designs. For them to go out and make an entire range of toys like this, I really do wonder how much of a demand there was for female-specific nerf toys, especially considering that the regular Nerf guns are pretty unisex as they are.

 

[SNCommand]

Unless a toy slaps a person's hand because they were the wrong gender I would never call one sexist

Now there might be something about society that makes boys and girls go for particular toys, but I've never seen anyone being punished for playing with "the wrong toy"

 

[visiblenoise]

I think this is completely an issue of marketing. Maybe they knew from market research that it was mostly boys who were buying the Nerf guns, and some people thought, "Hmm, how can we get a piece of the untapped market that is the female child?" And then the result is only logical. What's regarded as "sexism" today is often in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

How to word this?

I think the only sexist toys are the ones that people only allow because of the gender of the recipient. I.E. denying a girl a minecraft foam sword and insisting she get a barbie. Or denying a boy an MLP, or cooking kit coz they're aimed at girls.

I guess it's the attitude assigned to who gets the toys rather than the toys themselves. A girl that wants barbies and MLP is cool. A girl that gets it because a girl, but doesn't want it in favor of getting a Black Cat, or Arana marvel figure isn't, really.

Hell, I frikking like the Nerf Rebelle series. It's an epic name and an excuse for girls to get tomboy-ish in glacking a foo'.

IMO, it's the attitude that ingrains children with the idea of a solid boy/girl boundary, and creates that division that, well, doesn't always lead to playing well together. I.E. Videogames.

Toys should be made for everyone without gender politics getting involved. Imagination is universal. Joy is universal. Happiness is universal. None are gender specific. Ramming "No! This isn't made for you!" down a kid's throat is fucked up.

 

[AwesomeHatMan]

Here's something to consider (that might not necessarily be the case):

Say boys and girls can perceive gender norms, that it is acceptable, but rarer, for girls to play what are typically male roles but boys are scrutinised for playing female roles.

If a toy is marketed only using boys it will be seen as a boy's toy. Boys will play with it and some girls.
If a toy is marketed only using girls it will be seen as a girl's toy. Boys will not play with it due to scrutiny.
If a toy is marketed using boys and girls it could be considered both a boy's toy and a girl's toy. Unknown??? Boys may or may not reject it for being played with by girls.

The toymakers then choose to advertise the toy only using boys, who they figure are more likely to buy the toy, so that boys are not going to reject the toy for being a girl's toy. This is so they can maximise sales as a high number of boys will buy the toy, with some girls also buying the toy.

Toymakers find that the toy is selling well to boys and that there is interest in the girls market. They then make a girls version with the belief that this will result with girls' sales without decreasing the boys sales and that it would be easier to generate new girls sales, because they are currently low, than boys sale, which are currently high, and market it to girls (Also with Hunger Games stuff it might be easier to develop that market).

I'm pretty sure toymakers, as well as most companies, aren't really plotting to reinforce gender roles but are simply trying to make profits

 

[Worgen]

I think the toys are kind of sexist but at the same time, without them and marketing them specifically to girls, then girls might just not get them because they don't feel like the toys are for them. Its really easy to accidentally gender code toys so that one gender doesn't feel like they are allowed to like something. It seems like its more likely to affect girls since guys who like something girly, are still kind of being manly by enjoying something they like and not doing what society wants of them, which is a trait that is somewhat looked for in males. Women just seem to have much more of a set roll that society expects of them and fighting gender norms isn't one of those things. Hell, look how much hate Anita Sarkeesian gets for just making videos that talk about games from a female perspective.

 

[VanQ]

I'm going to use my little sister as an example here.

She loves video games. She loves casual facebook games and she also loves Pokemon and Dead Space. When I bought her a 3DSXL for Christmas this year, I asked her whether she liked pink, blue, red or white best. She chose pink without hesitation.

She loves model guns and nerf guns. And given a choice in colors she would always take pink first. She has realistic, black rifles and she has pink handgun models. She also has 2 nerf guns. Both are pink.

She has always had choice. She likes pink. It wouldn't even be me who would tell feminists to fuck off for criticizing the color pink, because she'd beat me to the punch every time. And I kinda wish I could see her reaction to receiving one of those stupid "this toy is sexist" notes in her pink presents this year. Just so she could scoff while opening her new copy of Lego Batman 2 for 3DS.

Some girls like pink. Pink is not sexist. Marketing pink shit to girls is not sexist. Marketing blue shit to boys is not sexist. Or are you going to tell me that my tomboy sister has just "internalized misogyny" or that she's a "sock puppet"? Girls have just as much choice as boys. There is no law or physical limitation preventing you from buying boys pink stuff or girls non-pink stuff if it's what they like. Good chance if you buy them the wrong color they'll make it known and you know better for next time.

People should try listening to and talking with kids for a change rather than talking for them. Kids aren't stupid, they're just small adults with less life experiences. Treat them as such and you'd be surprised at what they tell you.

 

[cleric of the order]

I FUCKING LOVE LEGO AND YOU SHOULD TOO.
but really, let people play with what they want.
Kids tend to not like things because they don't like it, they are a brutish lot and I've yet to see a barbie all you can aspire to is a homemaker or .... actually i do see let's die on foreign soil GIJoes but,I'll admit I loved army stuff when i was a kid so much i grew up to play miniature games.
I've got a but load of mantic, kings of war minis to my right as i speak.
Let them play with what to.
This is the realm of fantasy, of creation and of soft hearts and clever minds.
It sickens me when people try to bring their wants and wills into the most intimate place in a person, corporate or gender ideologues, this is closer to the analytical psychological realm, the unconscious mind and both would do well to leave it be or be consumed by it.

 

[VanQ]

Some girls like pink. Pink is not sexist. Marketing pink shit to girls is not sexist. Marketing blue shit to boys is not sexist. Or are you going to tell me that my tomboy sister has just "internalized misogyny" or that she's a "sock puppet"? Girls have just as much choice as boys. There is no law or physical limitation preventing you from buying boys pink stuff or girls non-pink stuff if it's what they like. Good chance if you buy them the wrong color they'll make it known and you know better for next time.

So, in your mind, there's nothing wrong with impressing upon children that they should like a particular color simply because of their gender? Also, you don't see anything wrong with pretending that constantly telling girls that they should get always get pink and then giving them the option of pink and not-pink is giving them an actual choice? Sure there's no legal or physical barrier preventing it, but reducing human decisions to what is physically possible and legal kind of ignores a lot of what actually goes into making decisions.

You're mistaken. When it comes to impressing upon children, it's usually the parents that do that and not the marketers. If parents do nothing but buy their kid pink then it's on them, not the marketers. There's always choice and until that choice is taken away then there's no real issue.

You're also acting as though the children have no agency, which was the biggest point in my post. If you take a second and talk to kids about what they like you'll learn a lot. Unfortunately, most people treat children like some special class that needs all their decisions made for them. Sure, you wouldn't let your kid choose what to eat all the time because they'd probably just eat junk, but when it comes to toys and colors, just ask them. They'll always tell you their preference.

 

[spartan231490]

I think if you have to look for something to be offended by, you should grow the frick up and thank your lucky stars your life is as good as it is. Some of us have real problems we have to deal with, and you're agonizing over whether a nerf gun marketed for girls should offend you.

 

[Amaror]

Sure, parents play a big part in developing children, but you shouldn't really just dismiss the media's affect on them. Or their parents. Or their friends. There's a lot more pressure on children than just what's coming from parents.

And the biggest point of my post was that you should question where those preferences come from. There's nothing wrong with children making decisions about what toys and colors they like, but there's a lot wrong in raising them to like particular colors or types of toys simply based on stereotypes about their gender. Children certainly have agency after a certain age, but before that they're basically at the whims of everyone and everything else.

Ok, do you have any proof here? You're just claiming that the evil society is pushing poor helpless girls into liking pink. Couldn't the reason for girl-stuff generally being pink be that girls just generally like the color pink?
I have a niece, that refuses to wear anything that isn't pink. She started to do this way before she ever watched any television or listened to radio. Her parents never inforced any stereotypical colors on her. Her room was yellow and her toys and clothes featured all the colors of the rainbow. If anything the color pink was underrepresented because her parents didn't like the pink girl stereotype either.

So please tell me how this girl got pushed to like pink without any media influence or pressure from her family, i am curious. You know children aren't little retarted things with minds made of clay that people just shape the way they want. Their environment influences them greatly, no doubt about that, but they are perfectly capable of making their own decisions and preferences.

 

[Souther Thorn]

This is a strange strange issue.

Allow me to steal an image from that other thread, so you can see what I mean.

Spoiler

If a toy is "sexist" because it features only girls (or boys) pictured on the box, and not the other gender, then does that also mean...
- The toy is "racist" because it features only white people, and no people of other ethnicities?
- The toy is "ageist" because it features only children / young people, and no older people?
- The toy is "ableist" because it features only able-bodied people, and no people with disabilities?
- The toy is "fat shaming" because it features only slim people, and no overweight people?

No, of course not.

And if you went into a toy store and started accusing and labeling the toys there as "racist", "ageist", "ableist", or "fat shaming", the people in the store would laugh at you.
But for some reason, labeling a toy as "sexist" for the above reasons, is seen by many as a legitimate critique.

I've known some folks (now out of my life)that would do JUST that about most if not everything. They found a great deal of solace in social justice movements, but to my lights (also having been involved) to the detriment of those associations instead of to the benefit.