She's into pyramids...

[Common Knowledge]

As with a lot of things this one began with a girl, namely one who was quick to mention that she was a black belt in Karate. Okay that's cool I thought and asked what branch it was, the response was GKR...

Now for those of you not familiar with GKR Karate it's basically a scam (well not quite because that implies deception) but it's definately not legit. I know this because I tried it out myself for a few months and here's some of the things that made me quit:

1. You can get a black belt in 6 months

2. An instructor can be anybody who undergoes an instructor course, i.e. a yellow belt who shelled out the cash for the course. Compare that to what I later moved on to and in order to be an instructor you had to be a 3rd dan, undergo a comprehensive instruction course and practice for at least 5 years.

3. It's just crap, there's no full contact sparring, it's expensive with poor qualities of teaching (largely due to 2) and feels about as effective as randomly waving around a bochen and convincing yourself you're an elite ninja.


Now this shouldn't bother me that much, but it really does. How can someone voulantarily allow themselves to be scammed like that? I've tried explaining it to her but she just gets annoyed and tells me to drop it, so does anyone know how I can persuade her to actually see that GKR karate is bollocks?

 

[Guffe]

you know... if those arguments don't work on her then she's a pretty simple minded person who thinks she's always right, I don't mean to say she's stupid or an idiot but when I meat people with these flaws in an argument (the ones that can never be wrong and can't take in proper arguments and change their point of view) I usually just quit argumenting, but this for the sake of helping her... nope, can't come up with anything if you have told her your own experience (number 1 and 2 on your list) and she still doesn't listen, they I should just say that you can't possibly help this girl.

 

[Darkwolf9]

I wouldn't worry about it. To her it's probably an achievement of some sort. Probably the best way would be to take her to one of your classes or to another karate school. I think if she sees the "real" thing in action then she may understand that she dropped a lot of money for nothing. I wouldn't keep arguing with her about it though. That won't get you anywhere. You have to show her or drop it. I'm sure she'll understand when she spars with a real black belt.

 

[Marmooset]

Turn her on to Parkour. Who couldn't like a girl who's into that?

 

[Your Nightmare]

Get someone who does real karate to spar with her?

 

[Common Knowledge]

Get someone who does real karate to spar with her?

I've actually sparred with her myself (I've been doing Ki Aikido for about 4 years now) and she didn't do well at all - she went down to basic 1st and 2nd form moves. The reason for this was that "we don't do full contact sparring in GKR." Which, to me, seemed to defeat the whole point of a martial art.

 

[Virus49]

maybe she would like to be adept at fightning thin air?
I cant even pretend to know how the ranks go in this or anything. But as long as your better, couldnt you teach her?

 

[Carbonic Penguin]

I used to do GKR when I was real small... as in 9 years old! And I got to orange belt! Would I have been able to stand up to any of the yellows or whites? No way... I had little idea of what I was doing, just followed the motions! What you say makes sense, I guess. And... perhaps you could help her out with the sparring? Earn her respect?

 

[LawlessSquirrel]

I would just leave it alone. Even if it's not as grand an achievement as she may think it is, it sounds like she's still proud of it. It'd be like finally completing some big collection only to have her calling it a waste of time and money because she's aware of something more difficult to collect. Regardless of where it stands in comparison to other things in it's field, it's a personal accomplishment.

If you really wanted to explain how one form of Black Belt is stronger than another, perhaps phrase it by stating how long and severe the training is that went into 's training. You know, judge the amount and severity of training rather than looking at the reletive rankings if you need to compare.

Other than that, technically she's still a Black Belt, arguing against that will only result in frustration.

Irrelevant: I've not done Karate, but I've got a yellow-belt in Tae Kwon Do from years ago. I personally can't see a credible place allowing someone to reach black-belt that fast.

 

[Common Knowledge]

I cant even pretend to know how the ranks go in this or anything. But as long as your better, couldnt you teach her?

There's barely a ranking system at all, just some belts and a minimum amount of time between them. I only went to two gradings when I was there but in both instances I never saw anyone fail out of several hundred people. This was partly because it was so easy but mainly because there were hundreds of people all doing their thing at the same time and nobody could see anything, so the entire event just turned into "pay £25 and get the next belt."

Also in Ki Aikido it's bad etiquette to teach someone else and she dismisses other styles of martial arts because shes already a black belt.

 

[kurupt87]

I agree with @Darkwolf9 really. All you can do is take her to a class that you consider to be the real thing and see what she decides then.

However, being proved wrong is a horrible experience; being proved wrong after spending alot of money on said wrong thing is one of the hardest things for a person to realise and accept. So, try and do it nicely if you're gonna continue.

Actually, to give the girl some credit; is she doing it for fun, for a confidence boost or for personal protection techniques?

If it's the first then it doesn't really matter, if she enjoys it then she can spend her money on it. The second is half of one and half the other, that's a hard one to judge and it'd be up to you. If it's the third then you are right to try and get her to stop and enroll in something more effective.

 

[Mr Montmorency]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

 

[Rarhnor]

Get someone who does real karate to spar with her?

I agree.

Match of the Week. That is, the shortest match of the week. Instead of odds, you can bet on, how many bruises she'll get.

 

[Common Knowledge]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

I don't do Karate myself but for a lot of people who do it's more of a hobby rather than a way to kick a muggers head off. I know that martial arts range in order of practicality and I'm sure if people actually wanted to really know how to defend themselves they would study Krav Maga or something. But Karate as a whole is not a scam - GKR is because of the reasons I've already mentioned.

 

[Marmooset]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

Yeah, but it's handy if you like to bully people.

 

[LawlessSquirrel]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

It's a great way to boost confidence and self esteem though, as well as good excersize and stress-relief. It's probably not going to save you any money, but it's got benefits.

 

[kurupt87]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

Not all violent altercations involve material theft you know. There's assault for one, which has varying levels of severity and is just violence for violence's sake. Rape, also, would be more easily avoided by being able to disable the attacker.

 

[Mr Montmorency]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

Not all violent altercations involve material theft you know. There's assault for one, which has varying levels of severity and is just violence for violence's sake. Rape, also, would be more easily avoided by being able to disable the attacker.

Yeah, well, you're still out by about $900 - $1000 per year, give or take. And this doesn't even mention that fact that most people don't even get attacked anyway. The injuries you sustain would probably only BE from the karate lessons.

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

It's a great way to boost confidence and self esteem though, as well as good excersize and stress-relief. It's probably not going to save you any money, but it's got benefits.

There's hundreds of ways of achieving that goal in exercise, and it doesn't cost a grand to do it every year. Fuck, a push-up is fine, it doesn't really matter, most people don't know how to fight anyway, it's really about who strong you are.

 

[manythings]

You do know that karate is basically a scam anyway, right? It costs more money to pay for the classes than it does if you just gave the mugger all of your stuff when you're attacked. Well, if you're attacked.

Not all violent altercations involve material theft you know. There's assault for one, which has varying levels of severity and is just violence for violence's sake. Rape, also, would be more easily avoided by being able to disable the attacker.

Yeah that's what I was thinking... rape and assault don't have the victim coming out ahead of the game. Unless it's a really weird victim to begin with.

Anyway this GKR shit is no different from Yoga instructor courses. "6 weeks and you can teach yoga too!" which is also a lot of wank. So my understanding of it is you have to be practicing for at least 10 years, and pass the self-pretzel tests, to be eligible to learn to teach.

Interesting side-note one of the endemic health concerns of the past 15 years or so was people going to these douchebags and fucking themselves up because the instructor didn't have a clue about how much bend there is in a person just starting. I don't just mean like pulled muscles, serious damage was done to a fair number of people.

 

[Break]

I've actually sparred with her myself (I've been doing Ki Aikido for about 4 years now) and she didn't do well at all - she went down to basic 1st and 2nd form moves. The reason for this was that "we don't do full contact sparring in GKR." Which, to me, seemed to defeat the whole point of a martial art.

dismisses other styles of martial arts because shes already a black belt

She's beyond help. There's no sense trying to argue with someone when they've gotten to that point, they've stopped caring about reason or basic fact. She may as well have joined a cult. No matter how persuasive you are, you won't get anywhere - she's been sold false confidence, an illusion of safety. This is highly appealing, and she's unlikely to let go of it so easily. Even if that lie is broken, there's a danger that she'll just think "I haven't been doing enough recently" and just dig herself deeper into the hole. This is not a good situation.