Should immigrants be required to integrate to receive benefits?

[Ihateregistering1]

Ran across this article today in Der Spiegel (translated into English):
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/court-weighs-whether-immigrants-can-be-leveraged-to-learn-german-a-924031.html#js-article-comments-box-pager

It's a long article, but to basically sum it up: a guy moves to Germany from Turkey in 1989, has a successful business that goes under and now has to live off welfare with his wife and six kids. The German government has basically told him and his wife that if they don't learn German and try and integrate into the society, they are going to cut them off.

Now, so we don't have to repeat it, the guy is an arrogant, sexist, entitled, lazy douche-bag, but it does bring up an interesting question: should countries be able to force immigrants to learn the language and 'integrate' into the society at large? And perhaps more pertinent, what about in countries that don't really have an "official" language? Should immigrants to the US be required to learn English, even if they've basically been able to function without it?

Updated question:
Ok, I get that the idea of "forcing" someone to do it does sound bad, but in a case like this, where, let's face it, they are quite literally "living off the system", should the Government be able to at least say "if we're going to keep supporting you, you need to at least make an effort"?

 

[Colour Scientist]

No.

If they're working, contributing to society and being an all round good citizen without it then why should they have to? They were happy to let them speak their own language when they were contributing to the economy, why should that change because they require some help from social welfare?

If someone speaking another language in "your" country makes you paranoid and uncomfortable then the problem lies with you, not them.

Having said that, maybe it should be encouraged from a practical perspective and, if i were moving to another country, I would certainly try to learn the language but I don't see why it would be mandatory.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I do think that if you immigrate to a different country then you should at least make an effort to integrate into that country's society, otherwise, what was the point of immigration? If you were happier with the culture in your own home country then you should stay there.

Now that doesn't mean that people should just completely throw away their old culture when they move to a new country, it just means that you should be aware that the country you moved to is different from your home country, and you should make an effort to assimilate into the culture of the country you're in, rather than expecting others in that country to accommodate your cultural preferences.

And yes, when you move to a different country you should be expected to learn that country's (or region's) language, even if they don't have an "official" language. And I think that someone who can't speak a country's language shouldn't be able to get citizenship in that country.

 

[Grach]

Forced? Hell no.
Encouraged? Definitely.
I say this because, even if the country is very lax with this kind of things, you still came to the country and live there. It kind of feels like guest logic: You came, you're going to be polite, you're not going to make a mess if you can help it, etc. Learning the country's language falls under the category of politeness. Although applied to this case it seems kind of unnecessary dickishness from Germany's part.

I'm still kind of speaking out of my ass with this one but fuck it, thats what I think.

 

[EeveeElectro]

It's really difficult for both parties if one doesn't speak at least a little bit of the same language.

If you go live in a country (with an official language) I think it's imperative you learn at least a basic grasp of the language, or the most commonly used one. It makes it easier for you and everyone else to communicate.

Maybe I have a bit of a unique take on this because one of the places I work at in the city centre is vastly populated with immigrants who speak either none or little English and to me, it's ignorant. You shouldn't go live in a country and expect everyone else to work around you because you don't want to learn the language. That's if, you actually need to go out and communicate as in go to the local Tesco to do their shopping. If they're happy enough socialising within their own circles then fair enough but I still think a basic knowledge is a good idea for when it's needed. There's plenty of Polish markets people go to rather than going to supermarkets but they go to Primark for clothes and can't ask what they're looking for because they don't speak English >.>

People think I'm joking when I say a big percentage of my customers get mad at me for speaking English :/

If that post seems a bit off or weird, you should come work and live in Bradford for a bit to see how tense and hostile this place can get ;~;

 

[Colour Scientist]

If you were happier with the culture in your own home country then you should stay there.
.

Except when people need to move for employment, better standard of living, better access to healthcare/education...
There're so many reasons why people immigrate, it's frequently not a choice.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I do think that if you immigrate to a different country then you should at least make an effort to integrate into that country's society, otherwise, what was the point of immigration? If you were happier with the culture in your own home country then you should stay there.

Now that doesn't mean that people should just completely throw away their old culture when they move to a new country, it just means that you should be aware that the country you moved to is different from your home country, and you should make an effort to assimilate into the culture of the country you're in, rather than expecting others in that country to accommodate your cultural preferences.

And yes, when you move to a different country you should be expected to learn that country's (or region's) language, even if they don't have an "official" language. And I think that someone who can't speak a country's language shouldn't be able to get citizenship in that country.

yupp this, otherwise it turns into a bit of a clusterfuck, and then people get upset when they can't communicate/do things because they didn't give the time of day to learn basic things about where they are living.

 

[GonvilleBromhead]

They should certainly encourage it - though not force it. In this case, it strikes me that (reasonably enough) the argument boils down to "should those on benefits lose their benefits if they are clearly not doing everything reasonably within their power to look for work or improve their employability" - a not unreasonable stance, and one I believe at the cornerstone of most country's unemployment relief. In this case, refusing to learn German (or being denied the right to learn German) is clearly not doing everything in her power to find employment.

 

[MorphingDragon]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Not forced, but you should at least take some effort. I'm currently studying in Canada, but prior to that I was working my ass off trying to improve my English to get a good score in IELTS. Even you're not planning to study in country you move in, how the hell do you expect to live there?

 

[shootthebandit]

I think they should at least make a concerted effort to integrate with the local community but the local community should also learn to accept them but unfortunately we live in a country full of right-wing arseholes who read the daily mail. I think that we can learn a lot from immigration and it brings new cultures and new ways of thinking but unfortunately theres a massive job shortage in the UK so i dont think opening the flood gates is a good idea at the minute. I think we should have an immigration exchange program where we take someone from eastern europe or india who wants to work and we swap them with one of our pot smoking wasters who sponges off the system.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

If you were happier with the culture in your own home country then you should stay there.
.

Except when people need to move for employment, better standard of living, better access to healthcare/education...
There're so many reasons why people immigrate, it's frequently not a choice.

But isn't that sort of the point? Just because someone needs to immigrate doesn't mean the country they immigrate to needs them, so shouldn't the person who is getting the most benefit here put forth at least some effort to integrate and learn the language of a country that has provided them with a better life and more opportunity?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I've been to Germany, I have relatives in Germany. They're incredibly racist towards Turks over there. And no, they shouldn't be FORCED to learn the language. WTF?

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I've been to Germany, I have relatives in Germany. They're incredibly racist towards Turks over there. And no, they shouldn't be FORCED to learn the language. WTF?

Well, here's the thing, they're not really being FORCED. It's not like someone is holding a gun to their head and saying if they don't pass this German exam they're going to be executed.

What they are saying is that if you want to continue to receive welfare (ie. taxpayer funded assistance), then you have to at least put forth an effort. I see nothing wrong with the idea of "we'll help you, but you need to put forth an effort".

 

[krazykidd]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

How did that work out for them?

OT: Nope . By being there they are contributing. As long as they are following laws and such they should be left alone . This is of course if they are in the country legally . Also what the fuck do you mean by intergrate? Do you mean socialise and do as the people of the country ? Or do you mean just learn the language?

 

[Little Woodsman]

People think I'm joking when I say a big percentage of my customers get mad at me for speaking English :/

My friend, I've had young hispanic men take a swing at me because I am dark-haired, dark complected and don't speak spanish. When I was being perfectly polite to them. So I unfortunately do not think you are joking at all, and you have my sympathy.
It galls me to no end--it took me all of 10 minutes to learn "Sumimasen, toire wa doko desu ka?" and I've never even *been* to Japan! People who've been living smack in the middle of the United States for multiple years should be able to at least say "Excuse me, where is the restroom?" and if they can't they have no right to be upset with people who don't understand their questions.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

How did that work out for them?

OT: Nope . By being there they are contributing. As long as they are following laws and such they should be left alone . This is of course if they are in the country legally . Also what the fuck do you mean by intergrate? Do you mean socialise and do as the people of the country ? Or do you mean just learn the language?

But how are they contributing? Think about it: he has six kids who are all in government funded schools (I assume, I doubt they could afford a private institution), he doesn't work, she barely works, and they basically are surviving off welfare. Besides sales tax, what are they contributing?

If someone comes and lives at my apartment and eats $100 worth of food a month, uses up $40 worth of utilities a month, doesn't cook or clean or do repairs , and then contributes $10 a month for rent, they are not 'contributing' anything.

"Integrate" is admittedly a broad term, but I do believe that people should do their best to learn the language of a country they move to, and I do believe that one should at least attempt to become familiar with the culture at large. That doesn't mean one needs to embrace it, but surrounding yourself only with people and aspects of your former culture leaves one closed off.

 

[EeveeElectro]

People think I'm joking when I say a big percentage of my customers get mad at me for speaking English :/

My friend, I've had young hispanic men take a swing at me because I am dark-haired, dark complected and don't speak spanish. When I was being perfectly polite to them. So I unfortunately do not think you are joking at all, and you have my sympathy.
It galls me to no end--it took me all of 10 minutes to learn "Sumimasen, toire wa doko desu ka?" and I've never even *been* to Japan! People who've been living smack in the middle of the United States for multiple years should be able to at least say "Excuse me, where is the restroom?" and if they can't they have no right to be upset with people who don't understand their questions.

Good grief D; I wouldn't want to live where you are >.<
A few weeks ago I think a Polish fella was ready to lay a smackdown on me cos I couldn't heat up his damn sandwich. The nationality doesn't matter of course because there's plenty of rude and angry English people but he had to resort to swearing at me in Polish lol.

I agree, just learning something simple like. "I speak very little English" or words such as bathroom, bank, town, shopping centre, food store, bus stop, hospital etc then I can help them a little bit more. They need to throw us a bone before we can help them :/

EDIT: they shouldn't be forced. No one should be forced to do anything. But it should be heavily suggested their lives would be easier if they learnt a little bit.

 

[HoneyVision]

No.

If they're working, contributing to society and being an all round good citizen without it then why should they have to? They were happy to let them speak their own language when they were contributing to the economy, why should that change because they require some help from social welfare?

If someone speaking another language in "your" country makes you paranoid and uncomfortable then the problem lies with you, not them.

Having said that, maybe it should be encouraged from a practical perspective and, if i were moving to another country, I would certainly try to learn the language but I don't see why it would be mandatory.

I would consider "working, contributing to society and being an all round good citizen" as integrating into a foreign country, so I agree with you there.

Meanwhile, language is very important. I do think it should be compulsory to learn a foreign country's language if they're going to live there. Language is one of the biggest contributing factors in social assimilation. There's an immense amount of power and unity behind people who all speak the same tongue.