So, about that Spectre movie

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Conner42

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Jul 29, 2009
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Let's just be clear here, it's impossible for this discussion to be spoiler-free. It's just that kind of movie. But, for maximum security, I'm putting the spoiler tags on anyway, but I still feel like I can talk about some things without them. If anything, this movie inspired me to review movies again. What fun.

Anyway, there are a lot of people divided on this movie, but what confuses me the most is when people say that this is a sort of decentish, midlevel Bond action movie. If it had even that to it, I probably would have been sort of okay with the movie. But save for one okayish accent scene in a train, every other action scene is boring as hell. There's no intent behind the staging or the editing. The car chase in the movie just involves Bond getting followed for about ten minutes until he finally decides to crash his car in the river. Another one involves a car and a plane and it ends roughly about the same way. And that intro sequence is just not as fun as it should be. I mean, it involves a god damn helicopter flying around in hectic ways while there's a fistfight going on. How is that not exciting? And, also, why are some people calling this the best intro sequence in the series? We already just came away from Skyfall which actually had an outstanding one, but there have been just as exciting ones in the past that include (my favorites) Goldeneye, The Living Daylights, Casino Royale, The Spy Who Loved Me, and The World is Not Enough. And a couple of these aren't even movies I like all that much, but they had that intro though.

Nobody seems to be talking about this, but the editing and staging is terrible in this movie. I felt like I was watching Attack of the Clones through a lot of the dialogue scenes and the action scenes are so void of tension and purpose that I really can't believe that these are the same guys behind Skyfall. You would think that someone who could make the scene in underground London where Bond and the bad guy sliding down the escalator to be exciting would be able to make anything exciting, especially one involving shootouts while flying an plane chasing down a car, but that just falls flat on its face.

Okay, spoiler time

Blofeld is Bond's half-brother and was the guy behind the bad guys in the last three Daniel Craig bond films. This is accomplished by Blofeld telling Bond that he was behind everything this entire time without even bothering to explain how or why. This is goddamned worse than the Star Wars prequels, because at least the original movies hinted at Vader's past and it sort of gets assembled in the prequels. I mean, yeah, we could talk about how bad those movies were until were blue in the face, but Spectre just takes it to a whole new level. How am I going to watch Casino Royale or Skyfall again without thinking "How is Blofeld behind all of this? Why did they have to take it this far?" Why does Blofeld created a goddamned secret evil headquarters just for the purpose of messing with James Bond. Fucking Gah!!!!

Yeah, this is really ranty. I had one damned nice thing to say about it, so there you go.

Disagree? I know a lot of people who really liked this movie and I'm opening up to find out why. I'm genuinely curious. Let your voices be heard! I'm getting tired of hearing "I disagree, I thought it was fantastic," and they just leave it at that. So, really, what do you guys think?
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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"But it's just a movie, dude! You're not supposed to, like, think about it bruh!"

I can't fault you for feeling the way you do. People just focus on different things while watching this movie. I thought it was okay, 3 stars. I'll likely forget it all in a month, but it was fun while watching it. And it hasn't retroactively rotted yet like Quantum of Solace. I think Spectre had some of the best casting in a Bond film: Bautista as the henchman in particular was a fantastic choice, and having only one line of dialogue worked perfectly for him. Christoph Waltz, whatever little there was of him in the end, was great, and his introduction scene was fantastically atmospheric, and perhaps the most memorable thing about the movie.

But the script was meandering and confused, there was way too little of the main villain and he was completely ineffective (that fucking torture chair scene! Wasn't that supposed to mess Bond up? But he just shrugs it off like no one's business), and the theme tune didn't fit the movie AT ALL. Say what you will about Quantum of Solace's tune, its first few seconds feel like the start of a Bond film. Sam Smith's dramatic soloing felt more like I'm watching some dramatic art film, and I had a hard time even telling what the lyrics were supposed to be. Enunciate, you thick twat!
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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Terrible story; good enough action to keep me entertained. The further I got in to the film though the less I liked it.

Call me unseasoned, but I still managed to get a bit of joy just from the spectacle of some of the action scenes. Besides the obscene focus on making sure the helicopter pilot got a beating, the helicopter fight was nice enough. Ditto the airplane scene. Some of the humour hit, but often times I was left just acknowledging that dialogue happened.

But the film just feels entirely redundant as I've probably said on other threads. Skyfall served better as an ending to Craig's Bond, it was the better film for action and my God nothing in Spectre could dream of looking as beautiful as the last twenty five minutes or so of Skyfall.
 

Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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Evonisia said:
But the film just feels entirely redundant as I've probably said on other threads. Skyfall served better as an ending to Craig's Bond, it was the better film for action and my God nothing in Spectre could dream of looking as beautiful as the last twenty five minutes or so of Skyfall.
Though this is true, I'd say we should give props to Spectre for at least not having the villain rely on the annoying "villain gets captured and later escapes though cartoonishly impossibly plan" that Skyfall follows that's annoying as all hell.

I'm actually still confused about what happened in Skyfall that made its story stand out with people. Its action was good and the visuals as well, but the story itself was terrible, which is something which has defined the entire Craig era. I honestly fail to see where the praise stems from, because Skyfall being the best of a bunch of bad apples doesn't change the fact it's still a bad apple.
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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Zontar said:
The story on the whole I don't praise much, but it ended on a note that established that things will eventually return to normal which is solid and fitting given the anthology style the James Bond series uses. Spectre feels like they've just pulled a Dark Knight Rises on me at the end.
 

tippy2k2

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Mar 15, 2008
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Shameless plug first: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.884617-tippy2k2-tells-you-what-to-think-Spectre

With that out of the way, I'm a touch kinder to the movie than you are but overall, I agree. I'm of the mind that the movie just kept getting in it's own way in trying to be far more complicated and complex then it needed to be. Ultimately, instead of being intrigued and curious, the movie just made me bored. Maybe I'm the dumb one here but there is a LOT that the movie could have just plain cut and I think it would have made the film much better including (spoilers duh, I will keep it a bit vague though):

-The Nano injection

-The revealing of the bad guy (maybe I wasn't paying enough attention because it felt like it was shot with a "HOLY SHIT! It's THAT guy!!!!" kind of reveal and all I could say is "...wait, should I know who that is? Is that the bad guy from one of the other Bond films and I just don't remember? Bond sure seems pretty shaken (not stirred) about this revelation but I'm confused"

-Mr White or Whiting or whatever the hell that guys name was

After the initial Bond intro, a shit load of nothing happens for half the damn movie so by the time it actually gets going (I feel once the Bond gal is introduced, the movie gets far better but I was so bored by the time it happened that the action wasn't enough to get my attention back), I've checked out.
 

Conner42

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Jul 29, 2009
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tippy2k2 said:
-The revealing of the bad guy (maybe I wasn't paying enough attention because it felt like it was shot with a "HOLY SHIT! It's THAT guy!!!!" kind of reveal and all I could say is "...wait, should I know who that is? Is that the bad guy from one of the other Bond films and I just don't remember? Bond sure seems pretty shaken (not stirred) about this revelation but I'm confused"
And this is textbook example of why that twist didn't work. I guess we can start calling this the Wrath Into Darkness moment, sheesh
-_-

This is the return of Blofeld for the series who is a classic Bond villain. He's the main villain in You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and Diamonds are Forever. But he is shown as the leader of Spectre in the movies prior to those. He's who Dr. Evil parodies in Austin Powers. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Bond films, but the fact that the reveal meant nothing to you says a lot about how well the movie was working in the first place. Knowing that the bad guy's name in Star Trek is Khan in Into Darkness did not raise the stakes at all. I can only imagine a lot of people going "Wait! I don't get it! Why does this matter."

I know he changed his name to Blofeld, but that's only going to mean anything to people who know who that is. Also, I guess you could say Bond was shocked because he turned out to be his half brother, but, man, that just gets even dumber, because it seems Blofeld's sole motivation is just to make Bond's life miserable because "Oh, daddy always loved you more, bwaahhh!" So, this is why we start a big secret super villainy organization? Oi -_-
 

tippy2k2

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Conner42 said:
tippy2k2 said:
-The revealing of the bad guy (maybe I wasn't paying enough attention because it felt like it was shot with a "HOLY SHIT! It's THAT guy!!!!" kind of reveal and all I could say is "...wait, should I know who that is? Is that the bad guy from one of the other Bond films and I just don't remember? Bond sure seems pretty shaken (not stirred) about this revelation but I'm confused"
And this is textbook example of why that twist didn't work. I guess we can start calling this the Wrath Into Darkness moment, sheesh
-_-

This is the return of Blofeld for the series who is a classic Bond villain. He's the main villain in You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and Diamonds are Forever. But he is shown as the leader of Spectre in the movies prior to those. He's who Dr. Evil parodies in Austin Powers. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Bond films, but the fact that the reveal meant nothing to you says a lot about how well the movie was working in the first place. Knowing that the bad guy's name in Star Trek is Khan in Into Darkness did not raise the stakes at all. I can only imagine a lot of people going "Wait! I don't get it! Why does this matter."

I know he changed his name to Blofeld, but that's only going to mean anything to people who know who that is. Also, I guess you could say Bond was shocked because he turned out to be his half brother, but, man, that just gets even dumber, because it seems Blofeld's sole motivation is just to make Bond's life miserable because "Oh, daddy always loved you more, bwaahhh!" So, this is why we start a big secret super villainy organization? Oi -_-
I knew who he was in a general sense (I've watched Bond since Brosnan but I am familiar with Bond history, even if I haven't seen the movies myself) but the reveal to me acted like my mind was supposed to melt into a puddle over it. The movie is called SPECTRE film guys, it isn't some mind blowing twist that the SPECTRE organization showed up...
 

Mangod

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Feb 20, 2011
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Conner42 said:
tippy2k2 said:
-The revealing of the bad guy (maybe I wasn't paying enough attention because it felt like it was shot with a "HOLY SHIT! It's THAT guy!!!!" kind of reveal and all I could say is "...wait, should I know who that is? Is that the bad guy from one of the other Bond films and I just don't remember? Bond sure seems pretty shaken (not stirred) about this revelation but I'm confused"
And this is textbook example of why that twist didn't work. I guess we can start calling this the Wrath Into Darkness moment, sheesh
-_-

This is the return of Blofeld for the series who is a classic Bond villain. He's the main villain in You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and Diamonds are Forever. But he is shown as the leader of Spectre in the movies prior to those. He's who Dr. Evil parodies in Austin Powers. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Bond films, but the fact that the reveal meant nothing to you says a lot about how well the movie was working in the first place. Knowing that the bad guy's name in Star Trek is Khan in Into Darkness did not raise the stakes at all. I can only imagine a lot of people going "Wait! I don't get it! Why does this matter."

I know he changed his name to Blofeld, but that's only going to mean anything to people who know who that is. Also, I guess you could say Bond was shocked because he turned out to be his half brother, but, man, that just gets even dumber, because it seems Blofeld's sole motivation is just to make Bond's life miserable because "Oh, daddy always loved you more, bwaahhh!" So, this is why we start a big secret super villainy organization? Oi -_-
So, be honest with me. Oberhauser; how much worse than Emilio Largo?

And as for Oberhauser, he's just got none of the pizzaz of Blofeld in the Connery movies. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XIwUxmtX5U] I mean, the SPECTRE meeting in this Movie was going so well, and then he had to turn straight into the camera and give that childish taunt. That just detracted from the scene.
 

fix-the-spade

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Feb 25, 2008
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<spoiler=OH GOD>OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE

That might just be the most violent and disturbing things in any of the bond films. It even outdoes the decompression tank in License to Kill. Sheesh.


I quite liked the film, although it is much closer to the Brosnan era of world spanning adventure. I kind of hope it's Craig's last Bond film since it ties his four films into an arc, albeit in quite a clunky manner.
 

Mangod

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Feb 20, 2011
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fix-the-spade said:
<spoiler=OH GOD>OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE

That might just be the most violent and disturbing things in any of the bond films. It even outdoes the decompression tank in License to Kill. Sheesh.


I quite liked the film, although it is much closer to the Brosnan era of world spanning adventure. I kind of hope it's Craig's last Bond film since it ties his four films into an arc, albeit in quite a clunky manner.
Oh come on! It was nowhere near as funny as the decompression scene!

"What about the money, patron?"

*beat*

"Launder it."
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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fix-the-spade said:
<spoiler=OH GOD>OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE OH GOD THE DRILL SCENE

That might just be the most violent and disturbing things in any of the bond films. It even outdoes the decompression tank in License to Kill. Sheesh.
Gotta agree with you on that. At that point I couldn't help but wonder at the stuff PG-13 can get away with these days. That scene would have been cringeworthy even in an R-rated film. Which makes it all the more puzzling how they make a big deal out of it and it's this really intense scene, and then it does fuck-all to him. No stumbling, no blood, nothing. I was sure it was going to be used in the escape action scene, and the girl would have to help him, but Bond just ends up gunning down mooks by the score like it's nothing.
 

Halla Burrica

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May 18, 2014
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I didn't really enjoy it, mainly because it felt really unfocused among other things. The sappy intro song is about Bond having to choose if he wants to find someone to really end his womanizing and spying days and get into a real relationship, but that romance isn't really given enough time or weight to feel meaningful or be coherent with the rest of the film, which includes a retread of Skyfalls theme about the old vs new (only with NSA surveillance blatantly added to the mix because to hell with any kind of subtlety), a huge conspiracy with the rest of the Craig films that makes very, very little logical sense and some shit about the power of friendship between Bond and his colleagues saving the day (yes they pretty much go there).

Action scenes really weren't very fun either, felt pretty standard. Especially the first action scene, during the spectacular-looking Day of the dead-festival is pretty boring because they do so little with the setting that it almost feels unneeded. There's also little reason to get invested in the action when you don't know what's going on and why.
This movie mostly reminded me about how much I liked Skyfall.
 

Conner42

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Jul 29, 2009
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Zontar said:
I'm actually still confused about what happened in Skyfall that made its story stand out with people. Its action was good and the visuals as well, but the story itself was terrible, which is something which has defined the entire Craig era. I honestly fail to see where the praise stems from, because Skyfall being the best of a bunch of bad apples doesn't change the fact it's still a bad apple.
It's hard not to admit that a lot of the plotting in the movie doesn't really make sense. It looks like we can now expect our bad guys to have overly complicated schemes where everything has to go perfectly and, my god, how could the villain actually predict a lot of what happens? (Also, it's the same plot as the Dark Knight, so go figure)

But it's a very thematically coherent movie. Everyone sort of has their own arc that gets completed by the end and it's done in a way that hasn't really been done in a Bond movie before. The plotting is there to mainly setup the story, even if it doesn't make too much sense from a logical perspective.

But, for all I know, you may have different reasons. But that's the most common complaint I hear with Skyfall though.