So, about those Stress Test/Destruction videos of phones etc. everyone seems to love....

[Paragon Fury]

In the future, those could get a lot more disturbing, if carried on to their natural evolution. What do I mean?

This comic takes a swing at it.

WARNING: Potentially Disturbing and/or Soul-Wounding Comic Ahead. View at own risk.

Spoiler

For those of you who didn't or don't want to read the comic; it involves a man performing the same kind of Stress/Durability/Torture tests you've doubtlessly seen people do to iPhones, Xbox Ones etc. The "object" he is "testing" however, is the latest generation personal robotic/android assistant like those seen in Ghost in the Shell and being developed in robotics labs and universities around the world.

Its not hard to imagine this actually happening either - either as a natural extension of of these "Will it Blend?" or "Durability Test" videos or for sick kicks.

I'll leave it open for debate, but I feel this clip accurately portrays my feelings on the matter.


"Now, sooner or later, this man or others like him will succeed in replicating Commander Data. And the decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of a people we are, what he is destined to be. - Captain Picard, The Measure of a Man

 

[tippy2k2]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

You've got people who argue that things like drawn child porn shouldn't be allowed to exist and that's just a picture. How are people going to handle androids like this? Is beating your android assault? Can you rape an android? What if having sex with the android is legal but it's in the form of a little kid? What about a learning AI; can you mentally abuse an AI?

The future is going to be cool but filled with all kinds of problems once it actually arrives...

 

[Lufia Erim]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

You've got people who argue that things like drawn child porn shouldn't be allowed to exist and that's just a picture. How are people going to handle androids like this? Is beating your android assault? Can you rape an android? What if having sex with the android is legal but it's in the form of a little kid? What about a learning AI; can you mentally abuse an AI?

The future is going to be cool but filled with all kinds of problems once it actually arrives...

But... It's a machine. Like a dryer. Not a person, or an animal. I mean. Even if you somehow manage to give machines emotions and the ability to feel pain, they still aren't real. They feel what they were designed to feel.

Personally i wouldn't give machines any kind of emotions or sensations or at the very least any negative emotion and sensations.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

Hate to disagree with you but I don't think it's something that's going to happen in our lifetimes. Not because it's something that's technologically impossible but rather because it doesn't actually make any sense to make.

What's the purpose of creating a machine that feels pain? What would be gained from giving pain receptors to machines that could not be achieved in another way?

 

[tippy2k2]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

Hate to disagree with you but I don't think it's something that's going to happen in our lifetimes. Not because it's something that's technologically impossible but rather because it doesn't actually make any sense to make.

What's the purpose of creating a machine that feels pain? What would be gained from giving pain receptors to machines that could not be achieved in another way?

Because we can. That's as good of an excuse as any for people to do stuff

Even if we cut the pain part out though, I'm guessing these problems are still going to crop up, specifically the AI ones. What happens if we get ourselves a "Chappie" [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1823672/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1] where the AI can think and learn and grow? Is that enough to call it sentient? If it is, does Chappie have human rights? Should Chappie have human rights if it doesn't? If Chappie can't feel pain, am I allowed to shoot it in the face?

Hell, these are also the questions that I'm thinking of. What about the questions that I'm not thinking of? What about the questions that I can't even fathom thinking about yet because the questions are not relevant (yet)?

 

[tippy2k2]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

Personally i wouldn't give machines any kind of emotions or sensations or at the very least any negative emotion and sensations.

I'm not going to be the one you'll have to convince; society is the one that you'll have to talk to once this pops up. They're the ones who make the rules

 

[Paragon Fury]

It's scary to think that this is a very real possibility within my life time.

What's the purpose of creating a machine that feels pain? What would be gained from giving pain receptors to machines that could not be achieved in another way?

If you're creating an autonomous machine, such as say a personal assistant or robotic maid/nurse etc., particularly if it can move around on its own and make its own decisions, you'd have to give it sensors so that it could interpret its environment and the motivation to avoid hurting itself.

The amount of sensors and the kind you would have to give it (heat, cold, distance, pressure, crush, falling, spatial awareness, internal malfunction etc.) would essentially, when combined with a danger avoidance motivation would basically equate to a "pain" sensor; because that is all "pain" is to animals a way for us to interpret and know our environment and what is dangerous/causing us damage.

 

[MysticSlayer]

The amount of sensors and the kind you would have to give it (heat, cold, distance, pressure, crush, falling, spatial awareness, internal malfunction etc.) would essentially, when combined with a danger avoidance motivation would basically equate to a "pain" sensor; because that is all "pain" is to animals a way for us to interpret and know our environment and what is dangerous/causing us damage.

It still may not be the same as pain as we feel it. Plenty of things, most notably cars, already have sensors that help them avoid certain situations (e.g. a crash), but we wouldn't say that whatever has those sensors is feeling pain. Granted, if we wanted to give them any sort of choice in how they deal with that, we may need to at least simulate pain, but there's no reason to make that pain go beyond a threashhold where it is actually painful. It could just be something that, when a certain receptor goes off, they know to avoid, but it won't cause them the sometimes debilitating pain that we can feel.

But... It's a machine. Like a dryer. Not a person, or an animal. I mean. Even if you somehow manage to give machines emotions and the ability to feel pain, they still aren't real. They feel what they were designed to feel.

Once a machine is capable of thinking for itself, learning, feeling emotions, feeling some threshhold of pain, moving on its own, responding to situations on its own, etc., then what's the difference between them and us besides the parts that make all of that other stuff work? I mean, it isn't already like we don't treat different machines differently than others. In fact, that makes up the entirety of our interactions with technology: I don't try to drive a fan just like I don't try to wash my clothes in a car. Likewise, we also tend to treat different animals different depending on what they are: For instance, we wouldn't try to cuddle an alligator just like we (hopefully) wouldn't shoot our dog.

Basically, once there's a machine that basically is us just with different components, then what is the meaningful difference that would cause us to treat them any differently than we each other?

 

[one squirrel]

Well, that's why we should put more money and effort into a scientific investigation of the qualia problem. Hopefully, Neuroscience will povide methods to determine wether a system is sentient and capable of suffering. If we can assume with high enough probability that a computer is capable of having feelings, it should be granted rights equal to animals with similar neurological capacities, up to full human rights.

Of course, we would have the usual suspects denying scientific findings on the matter, because they would be hard to consolidate with a deepely religious worldview "Only god can create souls, yadda yadda yadda...". No matter what the future will look like, scientists will be the fist to accept artifical intelligence as their equals, and the religious will have to be forced into accepting newfound facts, as it has always been in the past.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Oh no! What if people stress test a super cute girl robot who behaves exactly like an anime character!?

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well that doesn't become an actual issue until the AI reaches sentience, they might simulate our behaviour up to that point and it will most likely provoke our emotional response. But unless they have an emotional system of their own it is pointless to think about their feelings.

Also on the subject of "Ha, it's just machines why would I care!"... you might not, right up to the point your machines figure out the best way to avoid damage/pain is eliminating the human element and people start dying in their sleep through a series of odd accidents.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

That strip doesn't make sense to me.

If a robot is given the capability to feel pain and emotions then those tests wouldn't be applicable when the robot is activated and "alive". Before it is activated? Most likely. Afterwards? I don't see that happening.

What makes a robot "alive" is a whole other discussion, and one that gets a little messy. However, for simplicity sake, those tests would not be given to a robot with a conscious, so the robot at that point would not feel anything.

I'll play along though. I would think that those tests would be outlawed and would be protected once a robot was given a conscious and sense of being. One of the outliners of that sense of being could be feeling pain and emotions, so at that point what the guy did in the strip would be considered illegal. Laws would be instilled to make sure that those robots have rights too once they are "alive", I'm sure.

Maybe I'm just over thinking it, but that's where I see sentient beings going. >.>

 

[Sleepy Sol]

That strip doesn't make sense to me.

It would probably make a hell of a lot more sense if she wasn't actually visibly reacting to any of the violence being committed against her. As it is, yeah. Kind of dumb. With the knowledge that a man-made artificial intelligence had gained sentience and independence, I can't see something like this ever happening when we reach that point in technology. Then again, plenty of humans suck enough that I guess it is possible.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

The history has repeatedly shown that we, as human beings collectively spread certain basic rights towards other things around us.

Peasants, slaves, women and other races, now even animals - and I expect those with Artificial intelligence will get those someday.
(thank god I am not living in those times, because I have psychotic desire to break complex things, machines in particular.)

Until then, they will be seen as nothing more than furniture, and will be treated as such.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

That strip doesn't make sense to me.

It would probably make a hell of a lot more sense if she wasn't actually visibly reacting to any of the violence being committed against her. As it is, yeah. Kind of dumb. With the knowledge that a man-made artificial intelligence had gained sentience and independence, I can't see something like this ever happening when we reach that point in technology. Then again, plenty of humans suck enough that I guess it is possible.

Yeah, I think the strip would have more power behind it if the robot wasn't reacting and the dialogue wasn't so blatant.

I think the strip would have worked if other people were physically there watching with clipboards and such instead of a camera in a bedroom. I thought it was gonna go into rapey-town from how everything was set up, but thankfully that didn't happen. Doesn't mean that that won't be a thing in the future since some people are into some weird kinky shit. :/

 

[Jadak]

Meh, if it's actually an AI, or at least close enough to convince people that it is, then such things would quickly fall under the same sort of category as animal cruelty, at the least. Any true AI would like see either our exterminate or equal rights sooner or later, so whatever.

However, if none of the above is true, than it is perfectly reasonable to regard it's perception of pain as fake. I mean, if I punch my computer right now, and it had fancy sensors that allowed it to say "ouch!" and start to cry, it's stop not in any way "wrong". Doing a more convincing job of the same thing doesn't make it any more so, just takes a somewhat shittier person to overlook the outward presentation I suppose.

tldr: If AI, no different than abusing a person and like people, will probably go through the same shit prior to being treated as such. If not AI, then fuck it (literally in most cases), people can do what they like with their toys.

 

[Yopaz]

What's the purpose of creating a machine that feels pain? What would be gained from giving pain receptors to machines that could not be achieved in another way?

It was mentioned in the comic, but pain is actually very important in evolution. What is that prevent you from walking on a broken leg? What is it that makes you draw your hand away from a pot of boiling water? What is it that prevent us from seriously damage our bodies and make our damages worse? Pain and the fear of pain. People are born without pain receptors and many of them end up dying from injuries they can't even feel. You want any technical system to have a way of estimating damage and to minimize damage.

Relatively intelligent people already do that with our computers and either don't click install on the file called porn.exe or enter sites obviously riddled with malware. Those slightly less tech savy who still care about their security use anti-virus software, but plenty of us are struggling with malware.

A company selling expensive equipment as androids no doubt would be would want the android to be equipped with a detection system for damage in order to notify the user to get it fixed. This makes sense because if the user ignores the warnings they have received and still go ahead and damage their product they will no longer be covered by the warranty because they explicitly ignored the warnings they received, thus saving the company money on offering repairs or replacements.

That said, I doubt this damage detection system will be a parallel to our pain systems. So I agree with your statement that it's unlikely to happen.

OT: If modern technology is able to feel pain then they should have the same rights as animals do. If you mistreat an animal you get them taken away from you and you will suffer a fine or a prison sentence based on the severity of the mistreatment. Animals used in research should not feel pain according to the most recent EU directives governing the use of animals in research (that will be implemented here very soon, but I think most of Europe follows this now).

 

[Ronald Nand]

The android in the comic has passed the uncanny valley and can pass off as a human, so I don't think people would idly sit by and let a human beat it on camera without a fuss. People would see what we're seeing now, a human beating and torturing a robot that looks like a human, it may not be human but our minds will see it and feel empathy for the robot because it looks like a human.

What our phones look like now, doesn't resemble a human, its simply a piece of electronics, so we don't feel unsettled seeing that object abused.

As for the future I think when robots resemble and feel like humans we'll start taking the subject of robot ethics seriously and it will take a prominent role in global discussion. Perhaps harming robots will be the 'video games' of the future, just as people though harming virtual people made unsettled, people in the future will feel unsettled about harming robots resembling humans.