So Apparently “Recycled” Plastic Was Always a Lie

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hanselthecaretaker

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I haven’t found another source refuting this, so if anyone can or does, please post.


Gross, and chalk up another big face palm for Civilization.
 
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Jarrito3002

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I haven’t found another source refuting this, so if anyone can or does, please post.


Gross, and chalk up another big face palm for Civilization.
Man I swear trying to do the right thing even something simple is like the hardest thing to do. I am simple guy I keep two trash cans one for trash one for recycle.

Its like we are so fucked we are unable to unfuck ourselves.
 
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Hawki

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I haven’t found another source refuting this, so if anyone can or does, please post.
That plastic recycling isn't cost effective is a long held truth. The bigger question is what the alternatives are.

I may be getting some numbers wrong, but here's some facts:

-About 10% of plastic is recycled. The rest is either incinerated or goes into landfill (other solutions include converting the plastic back to oil, or using it as a construction material), though unfortunately, a lot is ending up in the natural environment.

-Who's responsible for that is a matter of debate. On one hand, IRRC, MEDCs produce far more plastic. On the other, if you look at the sources of plastic pollution (via rivers), most, if not all are located in LEDCs; China, Malaysia, and Indonesia. They simply don't have the infrastructure to prevent plastics from entering the sea. That said, a lot of plastic is shipped to these countries.

-You could say "well, stop using plastic, right? Buy paper bags rather than plastic bags." It isn't that simple. Plastic has low production costs, but high disposal costs, whereas something like paper has high production costs and low disposal costs. What I mean by that is that paper comes from trees (deforestation) whereas plastic is insanely easy to make. So at the start of the lifecycle, paper does far more damage. However, plastic has high disposal costs in that it can stay in the environment for centuries, whereas paper will degrade. Similarly, cotton bags can degrade, but cotton requires an insane amount of water to produce.

So what's the solution? Dunno. I don't think recycling itself is a problem, because some materials can be recyled very easy (e.g. aluminium and copper), but plastic isn't among them. You could try subsidizing recycling, but I dunno if it's worth it in this case, because as the article points out, plastic degrades every time it's recycled. So does pretty much everything, but plastic seems to be one of the hardest because it's a combination of materials. But it's important to remember that single-use plastics are the biggest issue. Plastic in of itself is kind of a Godsend to us because it's such a versatile material, it allows us to use it in place of many other resources that would be more damaging to extract.

There's a general maxim that goes reduce-reuse-recycle, and that goes for a lot of stuff. With plastic though, as heretical as this sounds, I'm starting to think that the recycling part is a waste of time. Because there's alternatives, such as energy generation, oil conversation, or construction, and while that still requires us to make plastics and extract oil, for the oil industry, plastic production is a very small percentage of what oil is used for (something like 5%). Even landfills aren't as damaging as I was once led to believe, because when you cross-reference the amount of space they take up, plus the use of artificial layers to prevent toxin seepage, there's an argument to be made that landfills are actually better for the environment than recycling, at least for some materials.

I dunno. There isn't one answer. Any calls to "remove plastic!" is unhelpful, because the unfortunate truth is that like palm oil, plastic can help reduce environmental impact. On the other, we absolutely have to do something about single-use plastics. And relying on recycling isn't the answer. Frankly, compared to the alternatives I listed, I think it's one of the worst answers.
 

Revnak

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Unsurprising at this point. It’s no different than the rest of the lies from the oil industry, and something someone could’ve easily learned at any point by looking at where “recycled” plastic actually goes (dumps in developing countries). Oh well.
Man I swear trying to do the right thing even something simple is like the hardest thing to do. I am simple guy I keep two trash cans one for trash one for recycle.

Its like we are so fucked we are unable to unfuck ourselves.
It was never your responsibility or within your power to resolve this.
 

Ghostrick Dorklord

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This is actually sad. Here I thought recycling was actually doing something and helping the environment but we just digging holes and forgetting about it. Call me an activist or whatever but we do need to care for the environment better. However I do understand the solution isn't front of us yet but I hope we can get our act together soon. We need to think about the future too.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Yeah. The company I work for spent maybe two years trying to find someone who would recycle the excess materials we use but couldn't. Only things we've been told to put in some kind of recycling now after all that time is aluminum and wood, everything else goes in the dumpster because no one will take the rest of it.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I buy around 2 plastic bags a year.
Those plastic bags are the specialised ones for for wrapping paper.

Other than that I've not bought a plastic bag in over 6 years and that was just to replace my last lot of re-usable bags.

My main contribution to the plastic problem is probably plastic bottles which I'm thinking of looking into turning into a Bottle greenhouse or something like that.
 
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Hawki

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This is actually sad. Here I thought recycling was actually doing something and helping the environment but we just digging holes and forgetting about it.
It can. As I said above, not all recycling is created equally. Plastic specifically however, is very hard to recycle.

Call me an activist or whatever but we do need to care for the environment better. However I do understand the solution isn't front of us yet but I hope we can get our act together soon. We need to think about the future too.
Oh, needing to care for the environment better is a fact, not activism.

That said, I'm without much hope at this point. I got into environmental stuff as soon as I started watching Captain Planet. I did env. management in uni. 30 years old at this point, and with only a few exceptions, the environment's steadily become worse, not better. Not saying it's not worth trying, but I don't see how the problem can be solved.

 

Eacaraxe

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Plastic specifically however, is very hard to recycle.
Easier than you might think, there are ways to recycle and reuse plastics that don't involve the typical methods associated with it.

I don't see how the problem can be solved.
I do but my suggestions would almost certainly involve multiple forum rules violations and/or global-scale deployment of weapons of mass destruction, so the less said the better.
 
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Seanchaidh

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Not saying it's not worth trying, but I don't see how the problem can be solved.
I do but my suggestions would almost certainly involve multiple forum rules violations and/or global-scale deployment of weapons of mass destruction, so the less said the better.

“The earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses.” - Utah Phillips
 

Hawki

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Easier than you might think, there are ways to recycle and reuse plastics that don't involve the typical methods associated with it.
Such as?

Also, is it cheaper than creating new plastics? Because right now, that's part of the issue - it's simply cheaper to make new plastic than recycle existing ones.
 

Revnak

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I do but my suggestions would almost certainly involve multiple forum rules violations and/or global-scale deployment of weapons of mass destruction, so the less said the better.
And I’m supposed to be the resident violent socialist. Honestly, it’s very unfair. I don’t even want summary executions or prisons for the capitalists, and you get to post this and get away with it because they think you have a southern twang to your speech.
 

Seanchaidh

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And I’m supposed to be the resident violent socialist. Honestly, it’s very unfair. I don’t even want summary executions or prisons for the capitalists, and you get to post this and get away with it because they think you have a southern twang to your speech.
No, I'm Spartacus!
 

Dwarvenhobble

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It can. As I said above, not all recycling is created equally. Plastic specifically however, is very hard to recycle.



Oh, needing to care for the environment better is a fact, not activism.

That said, I'm without much hope at this point. I got into environmental stuff as soon as I started watching Captain Planet. I did env. management in uni. 30 years old at this point, and with only a few exceptions, the environment's steadily become worse, not better. Not saying it's not worth trying, but I don't see how the problem can be solved.

It's when you tell people how truly fucked everything is and how one move which fixes one area of the environment it gets bad.
 

Kwak

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Recycling needs to be a major industry with massive investment in research and technology.
I mean we'll be reduced to scavengers rummaging through piles of garbage in a post-apocalyptic wasteland soon enough the way things are going.
May as well get a head start.
 

Eacaraxe

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Well for example, one thing my HS's FFA chapter did was experiment with recycled media for bioactive water filters, for use in small- and medium-scale aquaculture systems. Specifically, we compared different types of plastic for porosity, stackability, degradability, commonality, price per unit, toxicity, and less quantifiable shit like the potential for good coming out of sequestering that plastic item from the ecosystem. We'd test the usual stuff -- bacteria growth, colony robustness, oxygen saturation and cleanliness of filtered water, etc. Purdue at some point or one of their grad students used our work as a jumping off point for their own, if I remember right.

By far the best type of plastic and form for the application we found, were the old style six-pack rings.
 

lil devils x

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I actually brought this up a few years back. The chemicals released from melting plastics in order to recycle it are also increasing in the depletion of the atmosphere protecting the earth. Whether we melt it, bury it, burn it, no matter which method, we are still destroying our world with it. Working in medical, we tend to go through a lot of single use plastic due to the need to prevent the spread of dangerous infections. I know medical isn't the worst offender, but I too would like them to find alternatives because right now any offender is just one more adding to the problem. In Medical, " reuse" is not really an option for most uses due to the risks involved and the time crunches we are in already to be able to treat patients quickly enough. Things like reusable straws and what not are not really useful in our environment. So since we actually do still need single use items, the focus on biodegradable + sterile + ease of use + low cost should be the priority. I hate always hearing about some great alternative, then only go to find out it is just harming in a different way SO while I hope these are viable options, I am always weary about the veracity of their claims:

These are some of the options now available in medicine, but again I have not resreach or tested the veracity of their claims:
.
 
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lil devils x

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Recycling needs to be a major industry with massive investment in research and technology.
I mean we'll be reduced to scavengers rummaging through piles of garbage in a post-apocalyptic wasteland soon enough the way things are going.
May as well get a head start.
The problem is we are still depleting the earth's atmosphere when we remelt the plastic during the recycling process, in addition to there still being a lot of plastic that cannot be recycled. It just seems no matter if we melt it, burn it or bury it, it just seems to be harming in a different way instead. They have filters that help reduce the release of the chemicals into the atmosphere when we recycle, but then it turns out they are just moving the problem rather than eliminating it when they clean or replace the filters to keep the chemicals out of the atmosphere. When we solve one problem we create another set of problems.
 

Hawki

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The problem is we are still depleting the earth's atmosphere when we remelt the plastic during the recycling process,
What do you mean by "depleting" in this case? As in, adding GHGs, or something like ozone depletion akin to CFCs?
 
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lil devils x

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What do you mean by "depleting" in this case? As in, adding GHGs, or something like ozone depletion akin to CFCs?
The same chemicals that are being released into the atmosphere from creating and burning plastic and as it breaks down over time are still being released when we are melting it is the problem and due to the many different types and manufacturers, the chemicals can widely vary depending on type but from what we have seen, we usually focus on addressing the biggest offenders and overlook the many other offenders that can build up if they use them as an alternative. Even though we have mostly ended CFC use in 2010, the levels in the atmosphere are still rising due to how much of it we already have and the attempted recycling and disposal of plastics already made using these chemicals. No matter what we try to do with it, it seems to be adding to another problem down the line. I haven't found the article I posted on this years back yet that consolidated a lot of this information ( wishes I could access v1 old R&P) , but people generally are not considering all the chemicals being used in the manufacture of different plastics or their release in the the atmosphere through manufacturing, recycling, burning or just aging. We often only focus on the worst offenders and overlook the others as well that will also add up over time.

 
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