So I just sat down and watched all of Breaking Bad and I wanna talk about it.

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

OMG ITS SO GOOD WHY DID I NOT FOLLOW THIS BLARGh

Anyway, that out of the way. I was wondering about something.

Why did Gus suddenly want to kill Walter for killing a couple of his street pushers? The ones that killed Jesses friend, Surely as a drug lord Id be more than willing to sacrifice a couple of guys on the street to keep the best meth producer in the country happy and working for me. I entertained the theory that most of it was Walters paranoia leading to it, but clearly Gus wanted to kill him when he called him to the laundry in the middle of the night. If Gus had just said, "Eh, fine kill these guys why should I care? Here Ill shoot them myself." Then he would have lived a long and happy life with his face.

Also I feel terrible for laughing but I found it darkly humourous how over the top it was with what happened to Ted was hilarious when they showed us him in the hospital, that was one hell of a trip!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Why did Gus suddenly want to kill Walter for killing a couple of his street pushers?

It wasn't about the street pushers. It was about the disrespect to Gus and the business as a whole. It was about how erratic and unreliable (and thus dangerous) Walter and Jesse could be. Keep in mind the scale of his operation, and how much is at stake. Gus is a very pragmatic man. It isn't until he's able to bait him into acting emotionally (with Hector) that Walter can get to him.

If Gus had just said, "Eh, fine kill these guys why should I care? Here Ill shoot them myself." Then he would have lived a long and happy life with his face.

Not remotely true. If Walter's character arc taught you anything, it's that his egotism and insatiable need to feel compensated for his historical failings would have eventually driven him into conflict with Gus in one way or another. You'll recall what Mike says to him during their final meeting. What he pins the dissolution of that relationship on. It's not Jesse, or the street dealers, or Gus. It's Walt, and Walt's ego. Walt's inability to "know his place".

You need to keep in mind what Vince Gilligan's ultimate motivation was in making Breaking Bad. Walter White is not the protagonist. He's the villain. Gus eventually tries to have Walter killed because he comes to realize this.

 

[L. Declis]

Originally, Gus had no problem with Walt. The problem is that after Walt killed the pushers, Gus lost any love for him, but was basically willing to let things lie.

It's when Walt kept pushing, kept demanding, kept acting up that Gus basically felt "This guy is too unreliable to work with" and planned to have him "replaced". Remember when they first met, Gus said that he doesn't like unreliable people, or people who cannot be controlled.

Also, Gus is not a man to be crossed. He let people cross him once and his family was killed in front of him. So now he poisons everyone, he cuts their throats with a box cutter to show not to cross him. He couldn't have been more clear to Walt to just fucking leave it, but Walt never could.

The problem is that Walter is the case of the nice guy pushed too far. What happens you take a very nice but extremely intelligent man who has been shit on his entire life, and tell him "You're going to die. There will be no consequences for anything you do".

Not only that, but his brilliance, his intelligence and his bitterness made him a fantastic character and a bastard to face against; almost indespensible with his blue but constantly gunning for your job with his ego and famously bitter about his past. Hell, towards the end, an insult was nothing more than a death sentence; for an insult, he guns Mike down in a heartbeat.

Every so often, Hiesenberg would come forth. The moments of pure evil backed by a massive intellect. When he outplayed Gus by having Jesse kill his pet chemist comes to mind.

Like BloatedGuppy said, towards the end, even Gus and Mike knew they weren't dealing with a man; Heisenberg is a literal monster, a story of horror that gets written across the walls and drawn like a story. A myth, unkillable and full of wrath.

This post isn't very focused, but I have been wanting to gush about Breaking Bad since I finished it a few months ago.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

SNIP

A lot of people have also put forth the theory that, like how Batman is the "real Bruce Wayne" and Bruce Wayne is the fake alter-ego, Heisenburg is the "real Walter White", and mild-mannered, quiet Walter White is the alter-ego he's been hiding behind his entire life.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

A lot of people have also put forth the theory that, like how Batman is the "real Bruce Wayne" and Bruce Wayne is the fake alter-ego, Heisenburg is the "real Walter White", and mild-mannered, quiet Walter White is the alter-ego he's been hiding behind his entire life.

This, but it's more a case of the potential to become Heisenburg was always in Walter, he just needed the right set of circumstances to ignite the change. In keeping with the show's chemistry theme.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Why did Gus suddenly want to kill Walter for killing a couple of his street pushers? The ones that killed Jesses friend, Surely as a drug lord Id be more than willing to sacrifice a couple of guys on the street to keep the best meth producer in the country happy and working for me. I entertained the theory that most of it was Walters paranoia leading to it, but clearly Gus wanted to kill him when he called him to the laundry in the middle of the night. If Gus had just said, "Eh, fine kill these guys why should I care? Here Ill shoot them myself." Then he would have lived a long and happy life with his face.
!

going back a while since I watched that season, Gus had worked to create a persona as a community spirited business owner. the due of Walt n Jessie were just to unpredictable to have around anymore. I think the pushers were worthless in Gus's eyes.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Edit: for clarity, I'm not joking. I found it really difficult to dislike Walt, probably because you follow his journey from the beginning and can see his descent and the reasons he ends up where he does.

The reasons he ends up where he does are his monstrous ego and pride, and his outraged sense of entitlement due to bitterness over what happened with Grey Matter and a feeling that his genius was never properly appreciated or rewarded. He masks this under a layer of "concern for his family", even though his actions perpetually put his family in grave peril, and ultimately end up shattering them. Once his selfishness and ego slips the leash he's kept it on there's virtually no limit to what the guy is willing to do.

One of the most villainous characters ever to grace television screens, right in there with Tony Soprano. If anything, Walter's relative banality and relatability makes his crimes even harder to stomach.

 

[The Harkinator]

A lot of people have also put forth the theory that, like how Batman is the "real Bruce Wayne" and Bruce Wayne is the fake alter-ego, Heisenburg is the "real Walter White", and mild-mannered, quiet Walter White is the alter-ego he's been hiding behind his entire life.

This, but it's more a case of the potential to become Heisenburg was always in Walter, he just needed the right set of circumstances to ignite the change. In keeping with the show's chemistry theme.

I always felt like Heisenberg was Walts addiction. Most characters in the show are addicted to something be it drugs (Jesse, his friends and all their customers), alcohol (Donald) or power/control (Gus, the Cartels). These addictions lead to problems as they cause disasters and wreck plans.

For Walt, Heisenberg is this amazing high point who can achieve things Walt never could (killing people and scaring rivals off) and handle situations Walt would be destroyed in (like the first standoff with Tuco). But Walt almost never gets to be Heisenberg (like about 10/12 times in the whole show) and there are severe repercussions in the come down period after being Heisenberg. That first time where he confronts Tuco, walks out with his life, money and a deal then goes home and has sex with Skyler is the first rush, the initial high of experiencing a drug for the first time. No time as Heisnberg is quite so satisfying as that one and Walts situation only worsens from then.

But the show is damn awesome.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

To be fair, it wasn't.

Which was Walt's decision. The implication is he sold his shares in a huff when his ex-girlfriend started a relationship with his friend. That's his hot temper and ego on display, going back as far as his early 20's.

I've generally found the majority of Game of Thrones' various meanies to be worse though (if somewhat less human). I'm only up to halfway through S3 and I'm not sure I want to keep going to be honest.

Game of Thrones is a different kettle of fish. The context in which everything is happening is very different. Westeros is modeled after War of the Roses era England, so trying to apply modern standards of morality to it will leave everyone coming up wanting. Even beloved characters like Arya would be psychopathic spree killers in modern times.

Naturally Walter White doesn't register particularly high on the monster scale against characters like Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane, but their environments are completely different. It's apples and oranges.

But I will amend by statement to "Walter White is one of the most villainous contemporary characters to ever grace television screens".

 

[jademunky]

Game of Thrones is a different kettle of fish. The context in which everything is happening is very different. Westeros is modeled after War of the Roses era England, so trying to apply modern standards of morality to it will leave everyone coming up wanting. Even beloved characters like Arya would be psychopathic spree killers in modern times.

Naturally Walter White doesn't register particularly high on the monster scale against characters like Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane, but their environments are completely different. It's apples and oranges.

But I will amend by statement to "Walter White is one of the most villainous contemporary characters to ever grace television screens".

Oddly enough, the character who, in my mind resembles Walter the closest would be Caitlyn Stark. Both are just supremely awful human beings with massive entitlement issues. Both are more than happy to set the entire world around them on fire so long as their family is kept safe. Both, through their egotistical meddling, wind up wrecking the very families they were trying to protect.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oddly enough, the character who, in my mind resembles Walter the closest would be Caitlyn Stark. Both are just supremely awful human beings with massive entitlement issues. Both are more than happy to set the entire world around them on fire so long as their family is kept safe. Both, through their egotistical meddling, wind up wrecking the very families they were trying to protect.

Catelyn gets such an unfair rap.

The decision to kidnap Tyrion was ill considered. Aside from that, she's a perfectly reasonable and largely ethical character. The person happy to set the world on fire for their family would be Cersei Lannister.

 

[jademunky]

Catelyn gets such an unfair rap.

The decision to kidnap Tyrion was ill considered. Aside from that, she's a perfectly reasonable and largely ethical character. The person happy to set the world on fire for their family would be Cersei Lannister.

I actually really liked Cersei, just that inept smirking self-satisfaction (see where Joffrey got it) is way too entertaining.

Catelyn on the other hand I just cannot stand, mostly it is just the humourlessness and shrill self-righteousness. Kidnapping Tyrion was not just a bad judgement call, it was downright insane. It got Jaime Lannister to cripple her husband, started a war, had Tyrion brought into the custody of someone who was mentally unstable.

Then she gets her son to lose half his army by springing the guy who crippled her husband from prison and this untimately leads to her son's death and the loss of the entire North.

Also there is her general shittiness to her step son.

At least with Cersei, she knew she was a bad person but just did not care. Catelyn I could picture standing in the ashes of an entire kingdom and wondering where it all went wrong and who failed her (because SHE knows full well that she always made the best decisions).

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Catelyn on the other hand I just cannot stand, mostly it is just the humourlessness and shrill self-righteousness. Kidnapping Tyrion was not just a bad judgement call, it was downright insane. It got Jaime Lannister to cripple her husband, started a war, had Tyrion brought into the custody of someone who was mentally unstable.

Humor gets characters in ASOIAF forgiven way too much. Tyrion, for one, gets lionized due to his drunken merry quipping, but in many ways he's almost as bad as his father.

No, kidnapping Tyrion was not strategically canny, but Catelyn is not a master strategist.

Then she gets her son to lose half his army by springing the guy who crippled her husband from prison and this untimately leads to her son's death and the loss of the entire North.

Freeing Jaime cost Robb the Karstarks. The far more significant loss was the Freys, and subsequently the Boltons. Which was entirely on Robb, and his decision to bed and wed Jeyne Westerling (or Talissa, if you're a show watcher). Take it one step further, and the entire situation with Jeyne was orchestrated from afar by Tywin Lannister. Catelyn had nothing to do with the Red Wedding, other than perhaps ensuring there weren't any Karstarks there.

Also there is her general shittiness to her step son.

Her treatment of Jon is unfortunate, but this is a case of applying modern sentiments to an unmodern world. Jon is a bastard, whom she believes is born of marital infidelity, whom her husband insists on raising alongside his trueborn children. It's practically unheard of, particularly amongst the major families, and is a slap in the face to her. Put against the backdrop of events such as the Blackfyre rebellions, it's not hard to see why bastard children could be viewed as pernicious threats.

At least with Cersei, she knew she was a bad person but just did not care. Catelyn I could picture standing in the ashes of an entire kingdom and wondering where it all went wrong and who failed her (because SHE knows full well that she always made the best decisions).

Cersei does not think she is a "bad person". She rationalizes everything she does, and self describes as "Tywin Lannister with teats".

 

[thanatos388]

I came to read about Breaking Bad...
and got Game of Thrones spoilers...

But hey you don't have to feel bad for laughing at Ted. Many forget that the show was designed to be half drama half dark comedy. More so in the early seasons and less so later on. But still the dark humour created a lot of character for the show. It would not be the same without those awkward moments.

 

[jademunky]

I came to read about Breaking Bad...
and got Game of Thrones spoilers...

Yeah that was mostly my bad. Sorry bout that, no more game of thrones.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

OMG ITS SO GOOD WHY DID I NOT FOLLOW THIS BLARGh

Anyway, that out of the way. I was wondering about something.

Why did Gus suddenly want to kill Walter for killing a couple of his street pushers?

If you notice, Walt may have been lucky by not getting killed in his forays into the world of drug making/pushing/distribution but by no means was he smart about it at all. A brilliant chemist but no street smarts, just an uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time. He was a liability of the highest order and his ego outshone his supposed genius. Gus didn't want to work long-term with someone he couldn't predict or control and even after giving Walt advice (which Walt arrogantly shrugged off) on how to stop making so many stupid mistakes, Gus decided that he could do better by getting rid of Walt and keeping Jesse around since Jesse was as good a cook as Walt and less prone to stupidity.
It wasn't the killing so much as just blatant wild-card liability. Gus had survived a long time in the trade without attracting attention to himself, whereas Walt was skating the edge of being outed to the DEA at every step and his poor decision making overall was also attracting negative attention from the Mexican cartels.
In the real world, someone would have put a bullet into Walt no matter how good his product was because he simply was too arrogant and too high profile, but hey we're dealing with fiction so that belief can still be suspended.
Still I think the only mistake I ever saw Gus make was not killing Walt when he had the chance, and there were ample chances.
I loved the show despite the glaring logical flaws and overuse of Plot Armor.