Sometimes I wonder: Why not diplomacy?

[Poomanchu745]

So for the past 8ish years we have been in a war against the Taliban in Afghanistan and if anyone knows the history of wars in Afghanistan it seems to be going down the exact same path as the others. It is clear now that victory doesn't just come by "beating" the other side. It comes by winning over the people who will then essentially kick out the Taliban because they see that what we have to offer is better. Even though a lot of the blood thirsty Americans wouldn't want to sit down at a table with a "terrorist" I think that it might be time to talk this one out. Both sides don't like each other but I don't think that starting another war in their country is really helping much. Concessions need to be made on both sides if anything is actually going to get done. America will have to swallow the fact that we really should not try to control ever country because they are their own sovereign state and have the right to do what they will inside their borders.

However, If we can sit down at the table and have productive peace talks maybe we will be able to accomplish something that has never been done before and actually get something done that doesn't piss off one side or the other.

 

[siege_1302]

I also think you'll find that the vast majority just want the stupid wars to be over.

I think in that respect at least a token attempt at diplomacy with the Taliban might prove helpful, plus it'd make the US seem more like the reasonable good-guys they claim to be AND be a sign of genuine change in US foreign policy. So, worth doing really. It doesn't cost much.

 

[Nepeccel]

The Taliban do not own a country therefore we cannot sit down and have peace talks with them. They will not reveal the location of the main commanders for us to speak with them because we would bomb it. And remember that the Afgan government do not want the Taliban controlling their country and nor do the Pakistanian government.

They do not have the right to be beating, killing and threatening the peaceful civilians in Afganistan and Pakistan. This is a world of democracy and the governments of those countries want to control their own country.

Backward medieval style ruling which supports terrorism has no place in this world and if it means losing good soldiers than so be it. We can not come to a peaceful solution with the Taliban because they have no place in those countries.

 

[Poomanchu745]

Don't ***** to us.

***** to the people in charge.

Even though a lot of the blood thirsty Americans wouldn't want to sit down at a table with a "terrorist" I think that it might be time to talk this one out.

And I think you'll find making sweeping generalizations make you look like a dick.
I also think you'll find that the vast majority just want the stupid wars to be over.

Im not sure if you have ever seen the Bill O'Reily interview with a kid who lost a parent in 9/11. The kid wanted to make the point that he didn't feel that we should be fighting war in Afghanistan to which Bill then yelled at him for a good 5 minutes about how he wasn't a good American. And well there are a lot of people in America that watch people like Bill O'Reily and hold the same viewpoint as him. Selling peace is sometimes harder than selling war in America. And yes i generalize because there are people like that and that is a fact.

 

[Fulax]

Seeing as the Taliban, the people of Afghanistan and the people of Iraq did fuck all to harm the US, it's probably about time American/coalition forces got out of their respective countries.

The Taliban were prepared to hand over bin Laden if the US could prove he was behind the 9/11 attacks. Unfortunately they didn't bother and just invaded.

 

[archvile93]

That would be a great idea if the minds of terrorists were even remotely stable. The fact is, you can't talk over your differences when the other party believes that god wants them to murder you, your family, and everything you hold dear. You'd probably get better results negotiating with a zombie. Some people you just can't reason with.

Edit: I'm not saying a peaceful solution is a bad idea, I just don't think it's possible. Just look at what Hitler did when England tried to reason with him.

 

[The Bandit]

This is so naive it's hilarious.

Forget America for a second. Your bias is blinding you, so there's no way anyone's going to reason with you. Completely factor America out of your mind, and just imagine Taliban exactly as they are. They HATE anyone who is not on their side. Complete and total hatred, to the point where they're willing to kill themselves as long as their enemies die with them.

You can't negotiate with that. When the only thing they'll accept is your death, you can't offer anything to them.

That's beside the point that, even if they wanted something besides everyone to go off and die, they don't deserve anything. You can't compromise your basic principles.

Please don't come back and say "blahblah they DESERVE to hate America!" A lot of people hate America. Most of them don't run around blowing up everything in sight like they're playing Grand Theft Auto or something.

EDIT: If you want to argue that we should get the hell out of Dodge and come home, fine. That's an argument that holds merit and I can respect it. Don't ask anyone to negotiate with them though. It's ludicrous.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Don't ***** to us.

***** to the people in charge.

Even though a lot of the blood thirsty Americans wouldn't want to sit down at a table with a "terrorist" I think that it might be time to talk this one out.

And I think you'll find making sweeping generalizations make you look like a dick.
I also think you'll find that the vast majority just want the stupid wars to be over.

Im not sure if you have ever seen the Bill O'Reily interview with a kid who lost a parent in 9/11. The kid wanted to make the point that he didn't feel that we should be fighting war in Afghanistan to which Bill then yelled at him for a good 5 minutes about how he wasn't a good American. And well there are a lot of people in America that watch people like Bill O'Reily and hold the same viewpoint as him. Selling peace is sometimes harder than selling war in America. And yes i generalize because there are people like that and that is a fact.

The USA is a country of two nations though. Reasonable moderates and extremist nutters. While I agree with most of what you are saying, it would do well to clarify that you accept that not all Americans think they are Rambo, otherwise they may get offended and the discussion may wind up being derailed.

Note: NOBODY DARE bring religion here.

 

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

I don't think either side really entertains that idea, and if it's been tried before I'm sure both have rejected it at the time.

 

[Xorghul]

Leave the Afghanistan's alone and mind your own business americans. And everyone else for that matter. Or have the Afghanistan's actually asked for your(and everyone else that's there) help?

 

[Poomanchu745]

By saying that all Taliban are wack-o nut jobs who can't be reasoned with and that America is blameless in why the Taliban are mad is not helping anything because I believe if we were ready to actually sit down and try to have productive talks more would come out of it than what we have accomplished thus far.

The taliban may not be a legal organization inside Afghanistan but the truth is they are there and have a great deal of power. It is impossible to ignore them and try to go about daily life as if they are not there. That being said, they have to be taken seriously and not just pushed aside because they are not a part of the official government.

 

[TheBluesader]

And I think you'll find making sweeping generalizations make you look like a dick.
I also think you'll find that the vast majority just want the stupid wars to be over.

Hey. Some of us like wars, when they're fun (who doesn't love shooting Nazis? I mean, other than the French? But they have to live next door to them, so that makes sense.)

Fighting any war in Afghanistan is stupid. Ask the Russians, Alexander the Great, or Genghis Khan. To stereotype everyone in Afghanistan (because it's oh so easy), everyone in Afghanistan is like Batman in Batman:RIP, where he got injected with heroin and thought he was an alien Batman. And as everyone knows, you don't go up against Batman ever, but especially when he's hopped up on goof balls and thinks he's an alien Batman. Not even Superman fought him in RIP because even a guy with god powers knows you don't mess with that crap.

What the heck were we talking about?

Oh yeah. Fighting Medieval goat-herders armed with car bombs who hide in caves...in Caveland. Which is why you can't negotiate with them. I mean, they think we're Satan. Would you negotiate with Satan? If we planned to win this "War on Terror," everyone knows we should have gone after Saudi Arabia. Because they hide in actual buildings in the middle of the desert, making them that much easier to hit with Predator drones.

Not that I've given it much thought.

 

[siege_1302]

I think in that respect at least a token attempt at diplomacy with the Taliban might prove helpful, plus it'd make the US seem more like the reasonable good-guys they claim to be AND be a sign of genuine change in US foreign policy. So, worth doing really. It doesn't cost much.

You seem to be forgetting that politicians are in charge of this country.
Politicians are mostly old men.

And it's a well-known fact that old men can only get it up when they're spending billions of dollars on murdering brown people.

Very droll, but I think the point still stands. There are definate positives to at least communicating to the world that they'd be willing to enter dialogue with the Taliban. I mean, the TB would never accept, and the US would look like the good guys all the while killing brown people.

Because of that sentence, some wrinkled bag of pus sitting in a senate seat just got a raging erection. Thank me later for that mental image.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Forget America for a second. Your bias is blinding you, so there's no way anyone's going to reason with you. Completely factor America out of your mind, and just imagine Taliban exactly as they are. They HATE anyone who is not on their side. Complete and total hatred, to the point where they're willing to kill themselves as long as their enemies die with them.

Sounds almost like Cheney, the only real difference is Cheney wasn't prepared to die himself as long as there other people around to do that for him.

As far as the USA not negotiating with extremists, despots, people with shakey claims to territory, and terrorists.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_18_15/ai_81139195/

..and let's not forget this:-

I am not arguing with you. I am merely stating that there is precident for USA diplomacy to overlook... certain things.

 

[Poomanchu745]

And achieve what exactly? A terrorist organisation doesn't have diplomats or a nation or anything worthwhile at all.

No but they do have leaders who have goals and if we entertain the idea of giving them some things they want in return for other stuff something useful might happen. It might not or might take a really long time but seems like when youve put yourself in a shitty situation with war, more war doesn't look like the answer.

 

[UltraParanoia]

Republicans really love their wars.

They manage them better too.