Sonic Mania: How did you find it?

[Wrex Brogan]

So, the first half of the 25th anniversary Sonic games has released, in all it's nostalgic glory. If you've picked it up, how have you found it? Did it tickle your itch for 2D sonic? Fall short of the mark? Make you scream in frustration wondering why they ever left 2D to begin with?

For me, I found it... good. Not as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but still a solid game outside of the nostalgia. The newer zones felt a little cluttered with alternate paths and there were a few gimmicky bosses that could've been done a little better (the Act 1 boss of the Mirage Saloon Zone comes to mind), but overall I enjoyed it, it captured the feel of the old zones in the remixed areas pretty well and the bosses that weren't gimmicky were fun to fight - I quite enjoyed the Hardboiled Heavy that rode around on a Beetle Badnik like a motorbike, that was both suitably challenging and awesome to battle. Also the Chemical Plant Boss, was NOT expecting that kinda call-back.

Just a shame the Ice Cap Zone or Mystic Cave Zone weren't included. Those zones were the best.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Haven't had the chance yet. For some unintelligible (but probably pants-on-head retarded) reason Sega decided to not simultaneously release on pc.

And yeah, looking at the list of zones, I'd rather have had Ice Cap Zone instead of, say, Flying Battery or Metallic Madness. I'm quite happy Hydrocity made the cut tho, and that fans finally get to sort of play Dust Hill Zone. Would've liked a more even mix of old (8) and new (5[footnote]One of which is probably the single act bonus final level for collecting all Chaos Emeralds[/footnote]) zones.

Still, I'll reserve any further comment until Sega deigns to actually let me play the game.

 

[Saelune]

I havent played it, but uh...I dunno. People acting like its an original masterpiece for...being a remake of the old Sonics?

Even Arin of Game Grumps was praising it but it kind of goes against his whole point of what he doesnt like about new Mario games.

Personally, I want more games like Sonic Adventure 2...but better.

Im not paying $20 for it. I have Sonic 1-3 on Steam and on DS. Im good.

(Looking forward to that other one though)

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Haven't had the chance yet. For some unintelligible (but probably pants-on-head retarded) reason Sega decided to not simultaneously release on pc.

And yeah, looking at the list of zones, I'd rather have had Ice Cap Zone instead of, say, Flying Battery or Metallic Madness. I'm quite happy Hydrocity made the cut tho, and that fans finally get to sort of play Dust Hill Zone. Would've liked a more even mix of old (8) and new (5[footnote]One of which is probably the single act bonus final level for collecting all Chaos Emeralds[/footnote]) zones.

Still, I'll reserve any further comment until Sega deigns to actually let me play the game.

The 5th one is indeed just a single act bonus final level for collecting all the Chaos Emeralds. Interesting boss fight, but the music is a bit weak for such an occasion and the area itself is a little lack-luster. It's no Doomsday Zone.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

It's no Doomsday Zone.

Not surprising, Doomsday Zone is IMO a tough act to follow (no pun intended).

It was this lightning in a bottle combo of surprise, catharsis/reward and a bitchin tune. Getting those last few Emeralds was pretty hard, especially for younger me, and there was no internet at the time to spoil its existence. So for quite a time, I though Death Egg Zone and its bos gauntlet really was the finale. Then I finally nabbed the last gem, beat the bosses and was ready to pat myself on the back. Then the Doomsday Zone title card dropped.

"There's more? Holy crap, I'm in space, smashing asteroids and dodging missiles! Man, the music is awesome! How do you beat this boss? Aw, out of rings. Again! Lose. Again! Lose. AGAIN! Yay, beat him. No way, another boss? Get back here, you fat mustachioed bastard!"

Might not seem like much today, but to 9-year old me, that shit blew my mind. Many 2d Sonics tried their own version, but none really had the same impact. It was more of the same, sometimes less good, and eventually became the standard finale, something you expect, losing its wow-factor.

 

[dscross]

So, the first half of the 25th anniversary Sonic games has released, in all it's nostalgic glory. If you've picked it up, how have you found it? Did it tickle your itch for 2D sonic? Fall short of the mark? Make you scream in frustration wondering why they ever left 2D to begin with?

For me, I found it... good. Not as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but still a solid game outside of the nostalgia. The newer zones felt a little cluttered with alternate paths and there were a few gimmicky bosses that could've been done a little better (the Act 1 boss of the Mirage Saloon Zone comes to mind), but overall I enjoyed it, it captured the feel of the old zones in the remixed areas pretty well and the bosses that weren't gimmicky were fun to fight - I quite enjoyed the Hardboiled Heavy that rode around on a Beetle Badnik like a motorbike, that was both suitably challenging and awesome to battle. Also the Chemical Plant Boss, was NOT expecting that kinda call-back.

Just a shame the Ice Cap Zone or Mystic Cave Zone weren't included. Those zones were the best.

I love it. To be honest, I think it IS better than S3&K. I'm trying to take my nostalgia glasses off here and looking at it objectively. It looks better, sounds better, the zones are bigger and more interesting, the bosses are more interesting and it's more challenging. The gameplay is pretty much the same but a bit more glossy.

I've played every Sonic game since he first hit the scene. I grew up with a mega drive and master system. This is the best 2D game, no question. It was a smart move to allow fans turned developers to make this game. My only real issue is the ratio of new to old zones, but they've changed most of them to such an extent, it doesn't bother me. I'm very happy with the end product.

BUT I'm not knocking the 3D games because I'm one of the few Sonic fans that likes the majority those as well, although we all know Sonic Team have tried to be a little too creative with a lot of them over the years and rushed some of them.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Even Arin of Game Grumps was praising it but it kind of goes against his whole point of what he doesnt like about new Mario games.

Consistency is not his strongest suit. Neither is keeping out his biases, although he apparently managed this time.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

I havent played it, but uh...I dunno. People acting like its an original masterpiece for...being a remake of the old Sonics?

Even Arin of Game Grumps was praising it but it kind of goes against his whole point of what he doesnt like about new Mario games.

Personally, I want more games like Sonic Adventure 2...but better.

Im not paying $20 for it. I have Sonic 1-3 on Steam and on DS. Im good.

(Looking forward to that other one though)

To be fair to Arin, he is currently playing through Sonic Unleashed, and the last Sonic game they played was Sonic and the Black Knight... him being a little favourable towards this one could just be relief to be playing one that doesn't suck ass (well ok Unleashed isn't that bad, but the werehog combat is tedious as hell).

I love it. To be honest, I think it IS better than S3&K. I'm trying to take my nostalgia glasses off here and looking at it objectively. It looks better, sounds better, the zones are bigger and more interesting, the bosses are more interesting and it's more challenging. The gameplay is pretty much the same but a bit more glossy.

I've played every Sonic game since he first hit the scene. I grew up with a mega drive and master system. This is the best 2D game, no question. It was a smart move to allow fans turned developers to make this game. My only real issue is the ratio of new to old zones, but they've changed most of them to such an extent, it doesn't bother me. I'm very happy with the end product.

BUT I'm not knocking the 3D games because I'm one of the few Sonic fans that likes the majority those as well, although we all know Sonic Team have tried to be a little too creative with a lot of them over the years and rushed some of them.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't hate it - it's definitely one of the better 2D sonics around, probably on-par with Sonic Advanced 1 in my eyes. Sonic 3 & Knuckles just felt like a more... cohesive experience to me. Which, admittedly, I could fault with the way the Stages are ordered in Mania given you jump from generation to generation rapidly - probably would've fared better if they'd done it like more like Sonic 1 levels/New level/Sonic 2 Levels/New level/Sonic 3 levels/new level/Sonic CD/New Level/Final Level, just to give it a more cohesive flow rather than jumping around so rapidly.

...also would've given them time to make some cleaner stage transitions. It's the most minor of nitpicks, but I didn't like how the game moved from 1 to another, the 'inverted-color-teleport' just didn't sit right with me. I much prefer the more physical transitions from 3, where Sonic just... ran/fell/spun/flew to the next zone. A little thing, but made the world feel like a singular place rather than a disjointed string of levels existing in a void.

But as said, I don't hate it. The bosses are definitely it's strong suit, outside a couple disappointing ones and overly-gimmicky bosses - they were all a lot more creative than 'bounce on Robotniks head 8 times as he moves slowly across the screen'. Sound design was also great, and not just the music - they made good use of the pre-existing sound effects for the newer animations too.

...Can't comment on the graphics though, I played it with the CRT filters on .

[sub]What? I'm not nostalgic for Sonic, but I am nostalgic for my old clunker of a TV. Man, I miss that 80kg son of a *****...[/sub]

 

[Neverhoodian]

I havent played it, but uh...I dunno. People acting like its an original masterpiece for...being a remake of the old Sonics?

I think the reasoning is that Sonic games have gone off on so many weird tangents over the years that the franchise lost its identity along the way, not to mention becoming a laughingstock of sorts on the internet. Returning to its roots like this provides an opportunity for the series to get back on its feet, shake its questionable reputation and build on its success...assuming Sega decides to capitalize on this, that is.

To put it another way, Sonic Mania is to the Sonic series what The Force Awakens was for Star Wars; a nostalgic callback to get both hardcore fans and general audiences back on board with the franchise.

 

[shrekfan246]

Haven't had the chance yet. For some unintelligible (but probably pants-on-head retarded) reason Sega decided to not simultaneously release on pc.

Official reason is "polish", which optimistically probably means there was some sort of bug on the PC version they've been trying to squash.

OT: See above for why I haven't played it yet either, but from what I've seen of it I'm going to love it. I still semi-regularly go back to the Genesis trilogy, I can beat Sonic the Hedgehog in under an hour, and Sonic Mania looks like it's going to be what Sonic 4 should've been. Also, while I will probably eventually agree with the complaint about level transitions because one of my primary issues with Generations was that it has perhaps one of the laziest hub worlds ever and they made no attempt to make a cohesive world, I do appreciate the way that, from what I've seen so far at least, the game doesn't just throw you into old levels without any sort of explanation or reasoning. (I've only seen Green Hill Zone and small clips of other zones so far, though, so I stand ready to be corrected if the transitions after Green Hill are a lot more clunky.)

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

What? I'm not nostalgic for Sonic, but I am nostalgic for my old clunker of a TV. Man, I miss that 80kg son of a *****...

Don't blame you.

For all their advantages, modern TVs fair pretty poorly compared to CRTs when it comes to displaying many old consoles. At least not without (modding the console for) RGB/component output, and even then it can still look pretty crummy. That, or using (expensive) external image processors.

 

[Hawki]

I still remember hooking up my Mega Drive (a.k.a. Genesis) to my old TV. I remember how it required Channel 33 to be tuned. Nowadays, the Genesis I got to replace my old one uses a custom adapter with an AV port. Instead of using the remote to go to 33, I simply choose the AV option.

Sniff. It's just not the same...

 

[Wrex Brogan]

What? I'm not nostalgic for Sonic, but I am nostalgic for my old clunker of a TV. Man, I miss that 80kg son of a *****...

Don't blame you.

For all their advantages, modern TVs fair pretty poorly compared to CRTs when it comes to displaying many old consoles. At least not without (modding the console for) RGB/component output, and even then it can still look pretty crummy. That, or using (expensive) external image processors.

All true (my god the Megadrive was not meant to be run on a high-definition screen through a variety of adapters), but it's honestly just 'cause I had that TV for something like 20ish years. Played all my games on it, from NES to Xbox 360, so I'm just... really used to seeing everything with that good ol' CRT fuzz.

Probably explains why I'm not much of a graphics buff, really. 'My god, this picture is so clean and crisp! It looks awful! Where's the fuzz, the lines, the slightly-off coloring? Absolutely disgraceful!'.

 

[Fappy]

I loved it. About halfway through a second playthrough right now (/w Knuckles).

I am undecided on whether it is better than S3&K. I think I'll need to play through it a few times and let it simmer for a bit.

I'll break down the game by "good", "mixed", and "bad" elements.


Good:

- Awesome soundtrack.
- Most of the zones/acts (especially new ones) are well designed and fun.
- Some of the remixed zones are so different I can't even tell what levels they are supposed to be, which is neat.
- The game looks great between the detailed levels and sprite work.
- Most of the gimmicks/mechanics were well designed and fun.

Mixed:

- Most of the bosses are fun, but a few of them dragged on too long. Inconsistent boss difficulty after the halfway point.
- New bonus stages are fun, but can be brutally hard due to odd collision detection and turning physics.
- The S3&K blue dot bonus stage is a nice reference, but it pops up far too often and ruins the pacing of the acts. I just ignored them after awhile.
- The last zone (new) is fun, but can be a bit of a clusterfuck.
- The branching paths are cool, but it punishes you way too hard for not instantly reacting to alternative paths as they speed by. Backtracking is not encouraged/often times impossible.
- Too many remix levels and not enough new ones.

Bad:

- Lame final boss (Doomsday is a hard act to follow).
- The "crushed" instant death by pixel is just as annoying as it has ever been.
- No one liked the plane section from Sonic 2, so why is it here again?

Next go around I hope they do all original zones.

 

[gsilver]

This is really just a nitpick, but sometimes the levels feel incomplete. Like, in the first zone, I came across a row of spikes suspended in mid-air, with nothing underneath them. Around the same time, I got to an area which was below a bridge where fish jump out and attack. I saw just a fish suspended in mid-air in front of a water fall.
Stuff like that is really immersion-breaking, and I can't recall ever seeing weird stuff like that in the old Sonics

 

[Fappy]

This is really just a nitpick, but sometimes the levels feel incomplete. Like, in the first zone, I came across a row of spikes suspended in mid-air, with nothing underneath them. Around the same time, I got to an area which was below a bridge where fish jump out and attack. I saw just a fish suspended in mid-air in front of a water fall.
Stuff like that is really immersion-breaking, and I can't recall ever seeing weird stuff like that in the old Sonics

The game has a number of small physics bugs/oversights but they were incredibly rare on my first playthrough. I imagine they're just quirks of the old code (assuming they based the game off old code). There were similar things in the older games but you may just not remember them or were lucky enough to never encounter them.

 

[Hawki]

- No one liked the plane section from Sonic 2,

I liked the plane section

Granted, a lot of that is due to how it's placed. It gives us a break from the slog that's Metropolis Zone, and is a nice breather before we plunge into the difficulty that's Wing Fortress Zone. The music for Sky Chase also helps a lot.

 

[Saelune]

I havent played it, but uh...I dunno. People acting like its an original masterpiece for...being a remake of the old Sonics?

Even Arin of Game Grumps was praising it but it kind of goes against his whole point of what he doesnt like about new Mario games.

Personally, I want more games like Sonic Adventure 2...but better.

Im not paying $20 for it. I have Sonic 1-3 on Steam and on DS. Im good.

(Looking forward to that other one though)

Sonic Mania is Sonic 1-3 but much more and much longer, you don't think it's worth 20? Do all millennials think everything should be free?

Free? No. But Im gonna save my money for the other game instead I think.

Edit: Mario 64 DS did something like that...and it sucked for it.