Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers

[SonicWaffle]

Sorry guys. I really am. I may have said some things about you that were not entirely fair. Forgive me, for I knew not what I did.

The whole controversy has been going on for a while now, regarding whether fans have any right to demand that a game (or any other work of art) ending be changed simply because they didn't like it. I don't think I agree with that. I was firmly on the side of the naysayers, believing that such a thing was just a bit childish, equivalent to stamping your feet because you didn't get what you wanted.

Last night (yes, I know I'm late to the party. I have other things to do, like...er...stuff) I finished Mass Effect 3. My views on the subject suddenly became a lot more clouded. It's a lot harder to retain the moral high ground now that I've actually seen what everyone was complaining about (before playing the game I had ardently avoided every spoiler that came my way, and so had no idea what the basis of the contention was) and come to the conclusion that the ending was really, truly, genuinely terrible. The people who want to "take back Mass Effect" have a lot of good points. Then again, so do the people opposing them. I've been thinking about which side of the the fence I fall, and I think I've made up my mind.

There are still people campaigning for a "fix". I don't want that. Changing the ending won't erase what we all played through, and whatever happens we'll still remember it and know that the rushed, crappy, illogical ending was what we were meant to see. I'm done with the game, and my (previously very high) respect for BioWare has taken a big knock. I just want to know why we were given the ending we were. ME3 was a solid game almost all the way through. The gameplay was great, tense and challenging. The story was suitably epic, and I've never been more emotionally invested in a video game. What caused it all to fall apart at the end, as if the development team just couldn't be bothered anymore? Everything we were told, all the cheap gimmicks we were assured wouldn't happen, we had to sit through. Was it for some planned super-DLC that EA wanted? Did the writers lose interest? Was there someone, somewhere, who actually thought that epic-sized plot holes and fundamental lack of choice was being true to the spirit of Mass Effect?

The whole thing, unlike some, hasn't made me furious or butthurt or turned me into a lifelong BioWare-phobe. I'm just sad, and I want to know why we were let down like this. Am I the only one who doesn't want BioWare to "fix" the ending, because it's already too late for that?

EDIT: captcha - "perfect world". What the hell is with the ironic captchas lately? :-/

 

[Dendio]

There are some really good breakdowns coming out now that we have all had our chance to vent.
Cooler heads have done a great job making some sense out of the ending.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10761785/1

This link uses elements of two leaked scripts, in addition to several community spawned findings to provide clarity to the catalysts logic and the ending at large. A must read.


http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12153660/1

Here is another less wordy thread that also does a great job explaining the singularity, the geth's dyson sphere, synthesis and the catalysts reasoning.

In any case, welcome to the fold. Enjoy the free multiplayer dlc until extended cut and beyond.

 

[Dandark]

This is why it would be great if people didn't whine about those who disliked the ending being "Entitled" or "Childish" until they actully played through it or at least watched it on youtube or something.

Glad to see you actully admitted that you changed your opinion on it after watching it though and now having a more valid opinion.

Personally I don't care as the series died at ME2 for me but I still think that the fans are fine to complain about that terrible ending.

 

[SonicWaffle]

This is why it would be great if people didn't whine about those who disliked the ending being "Entitled" or "Childish" until they actully played through it or at least watched it on youtube or something.

Actually, I'm still of the opinion that some - some! - of the complainers are being childish and acting like brats. I've seen forum posts screaming about how they deserve more than this, how BioWare are "stupid fags who hate their customers", how they will never ever buy a BioWare game again because this one was worse than the Holocaust, etc. It's hard to argue that behaviour like that isn't the work of entitled children.

TBH, there were many reasons I formed the opinion I did. One was my (misplaced) trust in BioWare - they'd hardly ever put a foot wrong before now, and so I resolved to keep the faith. The major reason was that due to a complete and total avoidance of spoilers, I couldn't know why people were complaining, just that they were. It's hard to make a decision on the quality of something when you refuse to know the details of it. As such, from the outside it was easy to look at the behaviour of others as hysterical overreaction, albeit wrongly.

Personally I don't care as the series died at ME2 for me but I still think that the fans are fine to complain about that terrible ending.

What was so wrong with ME2, if you don't mind me asking? I really enjoyed it.

 

[SonicWaffle]

There are some really good breakdowns coming out now that we have all had our chance to vent.
Cooler heads have done a great job making some sense out of the ending.

I found the indoctrination theory pretty interesting, but it still doesn't hold together. However, making sense out of the ending isn't my problem, my big beef is why so little effort was apparently made. However much people rationalise it (the thread you posted was interesting, thanks) that doesn't excuse the sloppy job BioWare did.

In any case, welcome to the fold. Enjoy the free multiplayer dlc until extended cut and beyond.

Sadly, I have no multiplayer, as right now I'm absolutely penniless and had to borrow the game from a friend. Having some MSP left over from a Christmas present, I figured I'd buy both the MP and the Prothean DLC. What I hadn't counted on was how hard I'd be gouged over the multiplayer - 800 points, the same as the DLC pack - and I picked the wrong one. If only I'd known that Jarvik was an unexciting squadmate and that his story mission was so short :-(

Oh, and before someone posts to tell me (not aimed at you, Dendio, but I've seen this line of reasoning before) that I have no right to complain about the game because I didn't pay for it, I'd like to point out; be quiet. No, I didn't pay for ME3, I'm poor at the moment. I did, however, pay for ME1&2, plus all the DLC. I have the Mass Effect books. I bought all three Dragon Age Games, plus some DLC, and both KoTOR games (EDIT: though now that I remember, isn't KoTOR2 by Oblivion?). I used whatever leftover MSP I had to buy BioWare's ME3 DLC. I'm not ripping BioWare off by borrowing a game, I've been a loyal customer for years, and whether or not I paid out money this time doesn't impact at all whether I am allowed an opinion on the ending.

Ahem. Sorry for the tangent. I just didn't want people to start accusing me of being what's destroying the gaming industry and telling me that my opinion is worthless because I haven't paid for the privelege of having one. I've seen that argument used before and it really gets on my tits

 

[SonicWaffle]

I've lost interest in anything Bioware has to make from here on out.

I can't say the same. Much as the ending of ME3 let me down in a big way, the game itself was highly enjoyable, the sort of quality I've come to expect from BW. I also loved DA:O and A, though 2 wasn't quite as good.

Essentially, I'm hooked. BioWare can hurt me, feed me crappy endings, and I'll keep giving them my money. I'm the battered housewife who keeps telling the cops "No, no, they didn't mean to hurt me, BioWare just make bad development decisions when they drink! It's my fault really, I'm always upsetting them with my unreasonably high expectations!"

 

[Zhukov]

Was there someone, somewhere, who actually thought that epic-sized plot holes and fundamental lack of choice was being true to the spirit of Mass Effect?

Heh.

If I were a snarky individual who had an axe to grind with Bioware or the ME series I would reply with, "Well, "epic-sized plot holes and a fundamental lack of choice sounds like business as usual for a Mass Effect game".

Anyway, welcome to the light. We have painkillers.

 

[SonicWaffle]

If I were a snarky individual who had an axe to grind with Bioware or the ME series I would reply with, "Well, "epic-sized plot holes and a fundamental lack of choice sounds like business as usual for a Mass Effect game".

I dunno, I've always thought that ME as a series gave me plenty of choices. My mistake was in assuming that they'd all pay off in the third game rather than receive brief mentions and end up being totally irrelevant to the story. I actually took ages to decide over whether or not to destroy the Collector base, for instance, only to find out that the story impact was negligible.

Most of the choices I made throughout the games, I saw as an investment, something that would pay dividends at some later date. Sadly, almost none of them did.

Anyway, welcome to the light. We have painkillers.

Free drugs, eh? Groovy.

 

[Dandark]

This is why it would be great if people didn't whine about those who disliked the ending being "Entitled" or "Childish" until they actully played through it or at least watched it on youtube or something.

Actually, I'm still of the opinion that some - some! - of the complainers are being childish and acting like brats. I've seen forum posts screaming about how they deserve more than this, how BioWare are "stupid fags who hate their customers", how they will never ever buy a BioWare game again because this one was worse than the Holocaust, etc. It's hard to argue that behaviour like that isn't the work of entitled children.

TBH, there were many reasons I formed the opinion I did. One was my (misplaced) trust in BioWare - they'd hardly ever put a foot wrong before now, and so I resolved to keep the faith. The major reason was that due to a complete and total avoidance of spoilers, I couldn't know why people were complaining, just that they were. It's hard to make a decision on the quality of something when you refuse to know the details of it. As such, from the outside it was easy to look at the behaviour of others as hysterical overreaction, albeit wrongly.

Personally I don't care as the series died at ME2 for me but I still think that the fans are fine to complain about that terrible ending.

What was so wrong with ME2, if you don't mind me asking? I really enjoyed it.

Well yeah, I haven't really looked on the forums about people complaining but I imagine there are a few people who overeact about it, they will alway's exist. I just got really annoyed at generalizing statements from people who hadn't seen the ending. Usaully their posts just reeked of smugness and really irked me.

I didn't dislike ME2 so much as I disliked it's direction. I actully enjoyed the game and played it a good bit but I wasn't that big a fan of the direction they were taking the series, I preferred the kind of atmosphere that ME1 had while ME2 was more, I dunno, dark and edgy I suppose?
Don't get me wrong I don't think it was bad, I just kinda lost interest in it after I saw they were going in that direction and although I assumed I would probably get ME3, when the release date came closer I just find myself not caring about it that much.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Enjoy the free multiplayer dlc until extended cut and beyond.

Thats what I did while the interwebs were aflame with angry people complaining about something that doesn't really bother me all that much. For all I care, so long as they keep giving out free shit, BioWare can take another five years fixing whatever is wrong with ME3.

Never say no to free.

Captcha: move along
Sorry, I have to lol now.

 

[Yakslapper]

I was more confused by the ending than anything. After all the hate, anger and screams of betrayal I heard across the interwebs, I expected more terribleness than I got.

I find it hard to get that upset over it really.

 

[SonicWaffle]

I was more confused by the ending than anything. After all the hate, anger and screams of betrayal I heard across the interwebs, I expected more terribleness than I got.

I wasn't too bothered either, at the time. I simply assumed I'd done something bad, pretty much failed the game or made the wrong choice, and while I wasn't happy I couldn't see why there was quite that much rage about it.

Then I went to YouTube to see what the good endings were like, and found out that officially mine was the good ending, but that this didn't much matter because all the endings were pretty much the same. I was OK thinking I'd cocked it up and that the ending was my punishment, but finding out that this ending was what the developers actually intended indicates that whoever was writing it just stopped giving a shit.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Well yeah, I haven't really looked on the forums about people complaining but I imagine there are a few people who overeact about it, they will alway's exist.

More than a few, it seemed to me. It began to look like everyone who had played the game was up in arms and threatening death to BioWare. Being unable to delve too deeply into threads for fear of spoilers, it was hard to seperate the rational "it sucks" posts from the frothing "it sucks and everyone responsible should get AIDS" posts.

I just got really annoyed at generalizing statements from people who hadn't seen the ending. Usaully their posts just reeked of smugness and really irked me.

Fair enough.

I didn't dislike ME2 so much as I disliked it's direction. I actully enjoyed the game and played it a good bit but I wasn't that big a fan of the direction they were taking the series, I preferred the kind of atmosphere that ME1 had while ME2 was more, I dunno, dark and edgy I suppose?

I'm not sure what you mean. It's a trilogy about the impending apocalypse, at the core. Were you expecting the second part to be lighter and more cheerful than the first?

 

[Yakslapper]

I was more confused by the ending than anything. After all the hate, anger and screams of betrayal I heard across the interwebs, I expected more terribleness than I got.

I wasn't too bothered either, at the time. I simply assumed I'd done something bad, pretty much failed the game or made the wrong choice, and while I wasn't happy I couldn't see why there was quite that much rage about it.

Then I went to YouTube to see what the good endings were like, and found out that officially mine was the good ending, but that this didn't much matter because all the endings were pretty much the same. I was OK thinking I'd cocked it up and that the ending was my punishment, but finding out that this ending was what the developers actually intended indicates that whoever was writing it just stopped giving a shit.

I don't think they stopped giving a shit, rather they were going for something that didn't really work well in the end, or they ran out of time. A combination of the two makes the most sense to me.

 

[Dandark]

I didn't dislike ME2 so much as I disliked it's direction. I actully enjoyed the game and played it a good bit but I wasn't that big a fan of the direction they were taking the series, I preferred the kind of atmosphere that ME1 had while ME2 was more, I dunno, dark and edgy I suppose?

I'm not sure what you mean. It's a trilogy about the impending apocalypse, at the core. Were you expecting the second part to be lighter and more cheerful than the first?

No it's just that the first game seemed more alive and Vibrant to me, I enjoyed exploring it's universe. You had this large and beatiful sci-fi city called the Citadel. When I think about ME1 I imagine Noverius with it's snowy climate and all the backstabbing and such that went on there. I think about Virmire(I think it was called) driving along it's beatiful rivers battling Geth forces in the Mako. I liked the Squadmates more and enjoyed being able to customize the weapons and armour we all carried, I know most people hated the badly done inventory system but I liked the customization.

When I think about ME2 I just think of Omega, it seemed to have more of a dark and seedy feel, underbelly of society, bad part of the city kinda feel. I enjoyed exploring the bright interesting galaxy introduced in the first game, not so much in the second. This could be because they removed a lot of the exploration and completely removed the inventory system.

I alway's find it hard to explain but I preferred the first. I didn't dislike the second one, I just wasn't as interested in it's atmosphere. Since the third one is all destruction and "BLARG THE REAPERS! THEY BE WRECKING **** UP!!!" I wasn't as interested in seeing the Galaxys downfall. It makes sense, that's what they should have done after all, I just wasn't as interested in it.

Also annoyed that I couldn't continue my Romance side story with Ashley in ME2.

 

[Vault101]

snip/

and that's the thing, some people dismissed the "complaining" without actually know or bothering to know what it was all about

I also didn't understand the hostility some people had when I wanted to entertain the Idea of indoctrination theory...

...anyway my reasoning with the whole thing is that there is really nothing to be gained in NOT changing the ending due to "art"

by changing...or with this extended cut we are getting, its a chance to gain [i/] something[/i]

oh well, apology accepted

 

[lumenadducere]

Yeah, I definitely think that the damage has been done. I don't really think BioWare has any way to possibly salvage this except maybe by throwing their hands up in the air and claiming that the Indoctrination Theory is right, even if that was never their intention. But short of that, we've already seen the piss-poor ending and it's not something that some "clarification" will erase.

As for why, there are some strong signs pointing to the ending being changed around multiple times, and eventually the producer just whisked away the lead writer and the two of them together came up with the ending without any input from the rest of the writing team. All other parts of the game had gone through the peer review process, up until that part. Apparently the producer wanted a thought-provoking ending that made people talk and think for a while. But he unsurprisingly made a horrible judgment call and instead everyone just raged. Rather than philosophical arguments about synthesis, technological singularities, etc. BioWare's forums just exploded in a giant outcry of "WTF?!" I just hope they realize that they shouldn't let the producer make a creative call like that ever again.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The whole thing, unlike some, hasn't made me furious or butthurt or turned me into a lifelong BioWare-phobe. I'm just sad, and I want to know why we were let down like this. Am I the only one who doesn't want BioWare to "fix" the ending, because it's already too late for that?

You were fortunate in that you had ample warning, and thus your expectations for the ending were most likely carefully moderated. Most of the people who played/finished the game in the first couple of weeks and hadn't indulged in spoilers were going in cold, and had likely heard only the vaguest murmurs of dissatisfaction. And let's face it, gamers will complain about almost anything, so it was easy to hand wave stuff like that and assume Bioware would come through the way they had in the past. How bad could it be, really?

So at the point where you're the most emotionally invested, at the point where your body is figuratively screaming for catharsis, you get this damp squib of an ending. It's weird, tonally discordant, and deliberately ambiguous to the point of absurdity. It's followed by an insultingly slap dash cinematic and a somnolent Buzz Aldrin croaking a trite coda in front of an atrocious looking backdrop, and finally by a crass entreaty to buy DLC.

THAT'S why some people got "furious". It was the emotional equivalent of downshifting into neutral while going 120 miles an hour down the highway. I won't defend the people sending death threats or the better business complaints or demanding their money back from charity, because those people are clearly idiots. But I will defend the people who were angry/upset/hurt by that cut rate garbage of an ending.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't want Bioware to change the ending, because that would only add more nonsense.

If this was seriously the best they could come up with I really don't want to see any more.

I won't say the series is ruined for me, but it will feel peculiar to play through all 3 games and then turn the third one off 10 minutes before the end to make up my own ending.