Spiderman isn't a good guy, and he's in serious need of help

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Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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Spiderman is and has been many things. A teenager dealing with superhero and high school problems, a university student dealing with superhero problems, an adult dealing with life and superhero problems. Then he made a deal with the devil and stuff happened which I don't care about because that's the day he died to me.

However, he has always been portrayed as a nice guy trying to do the right thing (One More Day being the exception of course), however, there's something that changes everything we think about the character when we give it more then a moments thought.

Peter Parker is a genius, so he has a good idea of what to do with what he has. He created the web shooter, and that is how we got his iconic Spiderman persona instead of some other animal that can climb walls. However, what he does with the web shooters speaks volumes on how much of a hero he ISN'T.

Hear me out: he created, with only household products, a chemical which when mixed solidifies into a stronger then steel material which will dissolve hours later. The material is revolutionary and earth shattering in its creation. He has single handedly created a material which can easily save hundreds, even thousands of lives around the world each year from law enforcement alone by making police shootouts and hostage situations which would end in deaths ether become a thing of the past or at the least make is almost disappear. It would make urban combat in war have next to no collateral damage as a side using it could fire indiscriminately without fear of harming civilians while still catching their opponents, making them not need to be killed in combat either. Even without alterations it could be used for countless purposes in construction and other industries, and with a few years of people at the Baxter building working on it it's unlikely for them not to find a way to make the material not dissolve, which would increase the uses for it for countless situations across dozens of industries.

And what does he use it for? To help him swing around New York and fight a few criminals. And despite him invention worth billions, making ends meet to pay the bills at the end of the month have always been a part of his story.

What we have here isn't someone who wants to help people, we have someone who wants people to be rescued by him. What we have is a person suffering from a Superhero complex.

Before anyone tries to counter with some arguments, here are a few counters for some against this:

-"He isn't doing it to stay anonymous". A normal highschooler could understand the proses of patenting materials and the use of shell corporations, a genius like Peter would easily be able to set up a system where he holds the patent to the material and receives money from it without people being able to track him. We know this can be done because most of the evil corporations in Marvel use a system like this to get away with their criminal activities without the government being able to learn about it.

-"He didn't think about it". That's not true because...

-"He tried to get someone to buy it once when he first created it". This is true, however he only tried with one person at one time without trying any harder then that. That isn't him trying to get his invention out there, that's him telling himself he tried before he goes on to use it for street level crime fighting.
 

Queen Michael

has read 4,010 manga books
Jun 9, 2009
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Okay, first of all his name's spelled "Spider-Man." Secondly, this is one of those things that you have to accept to make the plots possible. Like how Batman's got time for both a career and crimefighting.
 
Nov 28, 2007
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If you are going to complain about this with Spider-Man, you shouldn't stop there. There is an entire trope for this: Reed Richards Is Useless [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless].

I'm not saying that you don't have a point. However, it's far from a rare issue, not only with comics, but all media.
 

Zontar

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thebobmaster said:
If you are going to complain about this with Spider-Man, you shouldn't stop there. There is an entire trope for this: Reed Richards Is Useless [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless].

I'm not saying that you don't have a point. However, it's far from a rare issue, not only with comics, but all media.
My god.... Can I still pretend that Spiderman is crazy though?
 

DudeistBelieve

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Sep 9, 2010
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to counter argue,

can you imagine the damage the webshooters could do in the wrong hands? Imagine how it could be used in murder? In torture?
 

Tony2077

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Dec 19, 2007
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that's the thing about stuff like that its about being heroes and fighting villains not using there powers for more normal problems
look at the second iron man movie with the suit copies
 

TheIceQueen

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Sep 15, 2013
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You practically described every A-list popular superhero ever with two major notable examples being Iron Man and Batman.

The phrase "comic logic" exists for a reason, you know.
 

Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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TheRiddler said:
Zontar said:
Was this from Cracked After Hours? I remember a video on pretty much the same issue (among others).
I just looked it up (I'm not a cracked reader), but I'll admit I didn't come up with this on my own, I got most of it from my cousin of mine who really doesn't like Spiderman. Though thanks for mentioning them, they seem to have an interesting show (and given that my cousin sends me links to cracked articles all the time, I think he probably came up with it from there).
 

TheIceQueen

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Ultratwinkie said:
GrinningCat said:
You practically described every A-list popular superhero ever with two major notable examples being Iron Man and Batman.

The phrase "comic logic" exists for a reason, you know.
Actually batman did use his money to help the world.

He tried to build a robot army of batmen to make the streets safe around the world. The US got scared of its potential and batman had to scrap it.

They would rather keep their military "safe" than their citizens.
I was mostly referring to the hero syndrome, rather than the ReedRichardsIsUseless trope that someone mentioned above. Sorry if I didn't properly convey that.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Aug 22, 2010
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Zontar said:
Spiderman is and has been many things. A teenager dealing with superhero and high school problems, a university student dealing with superhero problems, an adult dealing with life and superhero problems. Then he made a deal with the devil and stuff happened which I don't care about because that's the day he died to me.

However, he has always been portrayed as a nice guy trying to do the right thing (One More Day being the exception of course), however, there's something that changes everything we think about the character when we give it more then a moments thought.

Peter Parker is a genius, so he has a good idea of what to do with what he has. He created the web shooter, and that is how we got his iconic Spiderman persona instead of some other animal that can climb walls. However, what he does with the web shooters speaks volumes on how much of a hero he ISN'T.

Hear me out: he created, with only household products, a chemical which when mixed solidifies into a stronger then steel material which will dissolve hours later. The material is revolutionary and earth shattering in its creation. He has single handedly created a material which can easily save hundreds, even thousands of lives around the world each year from law enforcement alone by making police shootouts and hostage situations which would end in deaths ether become a thing of the past or at the least make is almost disappear. It would make urban combat in war have next to no collateral damage as a side using it could fire indiscriminately without fear of harming civilians while still catching their opponents, making them not need to be killed in combat either. Even without alterations it could be used for countless purposes in construction and other industries, and with a few years of people at the Baxter building working on it it's unlikely for them not to find a way to make the material not dissolve, which would increase the uses for it for countless situations across dozens of industries.

And what does he use it for? To help him swing around New York and fight a few criminals. And despite him invention worth billions, making ends meet to pay the bills at the end of the month have always been a part of his story.

What we have here isn't someone who wants to help people, we have someone who wants people to be rescued by him. What we have is a person suffering from a Superhero complex.

Before anyone tries to counter with some arguments, here are a few counters for some against this:

-"He isn't doing it to stay anonymous". A normal highschooler could understand the proses of patenting materials and the use of shell corporations, a genius like Peter would easily be able to set up a system where he holds the patent to the material and receives money from it without people being able to track him. We know this can be done because most of the evil corporations in Marvel use a system like this to get away with their criminal activities without the government being able to learn about it.

-"He didn't think about it". That's not true because...

-"He tried to get someone to buy it once when he first created it". This is true, however he only tried with one person at one time without trying any harder then that. That isn't him trying to get his invention out there, that's him telling himself he tried before he goes on to use it for street level crime fighting.
Peter Parker is under no obligation to do anything other than what he wants with something he invented.
 

EternallyBored

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Jun 17, 2013
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While comics certainly change, you're kind of a little late with this as the concept has been around and pointed out for years, pretty much every superhero, and even the world's governments are guilty of this in comic books.

Iron Man, Batman, hell, even Superman (he is often shown as having a number of super advanced kyrptonian devices at his disposal) is guilty of this. See, the excuse here has nothing to do with Spider-Man himself, it's that comic book companies want their comics to take place in the modern day society so we can recognize the world as our world, just with superheroes in it. Spider-Man doesn't share his web-slingers because that would break the society of the world the comics take place in, the writers would have to focus on how this changes society, and then it wouldn't be our society anymore, because everyone would have access to incredible amounts of sci-fi tech.

Not that Spider-Man is a very good example, compared to heroes like Iron Man, Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, and Mr. Fantastic, who all live on the same world as him, his web slingers are strictly amateur technology that Tony Stark or Mr. Fantastic could build better and stronger versions of in less than an hour. Hell, if we are asking these questions, then what the hell is the U.S. government doing with all the technology it captures from supervillains, or just makes itself, the government has access to things like working jet packs, freeze rays, an entire fleet of flying aircraft carriers, and at least a dozen different super soldier formulas it takes off captured supervillains every week, but the average American citizen on Marvel Earth still drives a gasoline powered car, talks on a basic smartphone, and suffers from all the same diseases real Earth does. Face it, the entirety of any comic book world makes no sense, either that, or everyone on it just lacks any form of common sense or critical thinking skills.

There's also the fact that Spider-man is kind of currently dead in the comic books, the current Spider-Man in the main series is actually Doctor Octopus who possessed Spider-Man's body and decided to pretend to be Spider-Man after Peter Parker gave him his memories as he died. It would be kind of hard to share inventions when you are dead, and your body is being piloted by your arch-nemesis.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
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Feb 9, 2012
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Bruce Wayne: Why didn't they put it into production?
Lucius Fox: Bean counters didn't think a soldier's life was worth 300 grand.
One possible justification. If playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne can't get something mass-produced, how's Peter Parker supposed to go about it?
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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Zontar said:
Spiderman is and has been many things. A teenager dealing with superhero and high school problems, a university student dealing with superhero problems, an adult dealing with life and superhero problems. Then he made a deal with the devil and stuff happened which I don't care about because that's the day he died to me.

However, he has always been portrayed as a nice guy trying to do the right thing (One More Day being the exception of course), however, there's something that changes everything we think about the character when we give it more then a moments thought.

Peter Parker is a genius, so he has a good idea of what to do with what he has. He created the web shooter, and that is how we got his iconic Spiderman persona instead of some other animal that can climb walls. However, what he does with the web shooters speaks volumes on how much of a hero he ISN'T.

Hear me out: he created, with only household products, a chemical which when mixed solidifies into a stronger then steel material which will dissolve hours later. The material is revolutionary and earth shattering in its creation. He has single handedly created a material which can easily save hundreds, even thousands of lives around the world each year from law enforcement alone by making police shootouts and hostage situations which would end in deaths ether become a thing of the past or at the least make is almost disappear. It would make urban combat in war have next to no collateral damage as a side using it could fire indiscriminately without fear of harming civilians while still catching their opponents, making them not need to be killed in combat either. Even without alterations it could be used for countless purposes in construction and other industries, and with a few years of people at the Baxter building working on it it's unlikely for them not to find a way to make the material not dissolve, which would increase the uses for it for countless situations across dozens of industries.

And what does he use it for? To help him swing around New York and fight a few criminals. And despite him invention worth billions, making ends meet to pay the bills at the end of the month have always been a part of his story.

What we have here isn't someone who wants to help people, we have someone who wants people to be rescued by him. What we have is a person suffering from a Superhero complex.

Before anyone tries to counter with some arguments, here are a few counters for some against this:

-"He isn't doing it to stay anonymous". A normal highschooler could understand the proses of patenting materials and the use of shell corporations, a genius like Peter would easily be able to set up a system where he holds the patent to the material and receives money from it without people being able to track him. We know this can be done because most of the evil corporations in Marvel use a system like this to get away with their criminal activities without the government being able to learn about it.

-"He didn't think about it". That's not true because...

-"He tried to get someone to buy it once when he first created it". This is true, however he only tried with one person at one time without trying any harder then that. That isn't him trying to get his invention out there, that's him telling himself he tried before he goes on to use it for street level crime fighting.
1. This is true of just about any tech based super hero. See "Reed Richards is Useless."

2. You know how hard it would be for a poor teenager to patent, market, and sell that invention? Quote from said TvTropes page: "In the real world, even if an independent thinker comes up with a world changing invention, he or she would not simply be permitted to use it to start curing people or such. With respect to anything regarding medicine, not only is there the neccesity of peer review in the scientific community, but in the U.S, there is a little thing called the Food and Drug Administration and all sorts of licensing, regulations, policies, legalese, and beauracracy which make it difficult to simply start implementing your invention. In fact, independent thinkers who are unaffiliated wth government, corporations or institutions typically have the most barriers against them being allowed to implement their world-changing inventions. And all of this is just to test your invention or cure in a controlled environment. Although some of this super-science has existed for decades in the Marvel/DC Universes (for example, in the Marvel Universe, the US Government has had access to suspended animation technology since the 1950's)."
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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EternallyBored said:
While comics certainly change, you're kind of a little late with this as the concept has been around and pointed out for years, pretty much every superhero, and even the world's governments are guilty of this in comic books.

Iron Man, Batman, hell, even Superman (he is often shown as having a number of super advanced kyrptonian devices at his disposal) is guilty of this. See, the excuse here has nothing to do with Spider-Man himself, it's that comic book companies want their comics to take place in the modern day society so we can recognize the world as our world, just with superheroes in it. Spider-Man doesn't share his web-slingers because that would break the society of the world the comics take place in, the writers would have to focus on how this changes society, and then it wouldn't be our society anymore, because everyone would have access to incredible amounts of sci-fi tech.

Not that Spider-Man is a very good example, compared to heroes like Iron Man, Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, and Mr. Fantastic, who all live on the same world as him, his web slingers are strictly amateur technology that Tony Stark or Mr. Fantastic could build better and stronger versions of in less than an hour. Hell, if we are asking these questions, then what the hell is the U.S. government doing with all the technology it captures from supervillains, or just makes itself, the government has access to things like working jet packs, freeze rays, an entire fleet of flying aircraft carriers, and at least a dozen different super soldier formulas it takes off captured supervillains every week, but the average American citizen on Marvel Earth still drives a gasoline powered car, talks on a basic smartphone, and suffers from all the same diseases real Earth does. Face it, the entirety of any comic book world makes no sense, either that, or everyone on it just lacks any form of common sense or critical thinking skills.

There's also the fact that Spider-man is kind of currently dead in the comic books, the current Spider-Man in the main series is actually Doctor Octopus who possessed Spider-Man's body and decided to pretend to be Spider-Man after Peter Parker gave him his memories as he died. It would be kind of hard to share inventions when you are dead, and your body is being piloted by your arch-nemesis.
Yeah, Mr. Fantastic alone has created all kinds of robots, time machines, ships that can go passed the speed of light, or even a way to get to HEAVEN.

This is on thing I liked about the DCAU. It was shown many, MANY times that the technology of the world is far ahead of our world because of the technology of super geniuses like Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor (for example, the first episode of Justice League had NASA landing on MARS).
 

Baron_BJ

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Nov 13, 2009
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Although this could have once been a compelling argument it doesn't really work with what's been with the Spider-Man comics that have been made since #648 of Amazing Spider-Man (This came out in January 2011) and onward (I like the stories themselves although I greatly disagree with a lot of decisions the writer Dan Slott has made with the character, and no, I'm not referring to the whole killing him off thing, I've loved that story much to my surprise, speaking of which Peter will be brought back from the dead in April, so that didn't last too long). Peter WAS (up until around #17-20 of Superior Spider-Man, we're currently sitting on #24, so extremely recently) working at a highly elaborate "Super Laboratory" where he was placed on their special team where basically he was allowed to do whatever he wanted and had a fortune to spend on whatever projects he wanted so long as he turned out a number of profitable inventions for the company, during this period Peter created a large number of inventions, many of which were made to just help people (an example off the top of my head was a fancy cryogenic holder for organ transplants so that they could be stored almost indefinitely and was quickly brought into standard use by hospitals and health services everywhere), all these inventions are also publicly credited to him.

Later, due to a series of elaborate and convenient circumstances it's "revealed" that Peter works closely with Spider-Man and always has, even being the one who made his gadgets, this fact eventually becomes public knowledge and he receives a great deal of adulation for it (because by this point Spider-Man isn't really a character who is still hounded by the Bugle and the like, he's a member of the Avengers and is generally thought of quite well, especially at this point in time). Many of his inventions (such as the aforementioned cryogenic organ carrier) also have applications that pertain to his work as Spider-Man (it makes a big deal out of this, and it mentions how that invention in particular allowed him to create a small bomb-like device to freeze an enemy in place), so Peter is more than comfortable to sell items that relate to his work as Spider-Man, so it's not like he's refusing to really sell this equipment, if someone were interested in his web formula (which is now openly credited to Peter Parker and he's a well-known figure) all they would really have to do is approach him.

My god that was a ramble-y mess I just made.

The point of this story is that what you've said is untrue, although you could argue it was true for quite a long time.
 

Zontar

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Baron_BJ said:
Although this could have once been a compelling argument it doesn't really work with what's been with the Spider-Man comics that have been made since #648 of Amazing Spider-Man (This came out in January 2011) and onward (I like the stories themselves although I greatly disagree with a lot of decisions the writer Dan Slott has made with the character, and no, I'm not referring to the whole killing him off thing, I've loved that story much to my surprise, speaking of which Peter will be brought back from the dead in April, so that didn't last too long). Peter WAS (up until around #17-20 of Superior Spider-Man, we're currently sitting on #24, so extremely recently) working at a highly elaborate "Super Laboratory" where he was placed on their special team where basically he was allowed to do whatever he wanted and had a fortune to spend on whatever projects he wanted so long as he turned out a number of profitable inventions for the company, during this period Peter created a large number of inventions, many of which were made to just help people (an example off the top of my head was a fancy cryogenic holder for organ transplants so that they could be stored almost indefinitely and was quickly brought into standard use by hospitals and health services everywhere), all these inventions are also publicly credited to him.

Later, due to a series of elaborate and convenient circumstances it's "revealed" that Peter works closely with Spider-Man and always has, even being the one who made his gadgets, this fact eventually becomes public knowledge and he receives a great deal of adulation for it (because by this point Spider-Man isn't really a character who is still hounded by the Bugle and the like, he's a member of the Avengers and is generally thought of quite well, especially at this point in time). Many of his inventions (such as the aforementioned cryogenic organ carrier) also have applications that pertain to his work as Spider-Man (it makes a big deal out of this, and it mentions how that invention in particular allowed him to create a small bomb-like device to freeze an enemy in place), so Peter is more than comfortable to sell items that relate to his work as Spider-Man, so it's not like he's refusing to really sell this equipment, if someone were interested in his web formula (which is now openly credited to Peter Parker and he's a well-known figure) all they would really have to do is approach him.

My god that was a ramble-y mess I just made.

The point of this story is that what you've said is untrue, although you could argue it was true for quite a long time.
You make a good point, however I didn't know about those developments since I dropped the Spiderman comics (expect Ultimate) all together after THAT incident. (the idea of him making a deal with the devil just hurts my head, if you're going to do a retcon at least to it right instead of offensively bad)
 

Vausch

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And Superman would be a better hero to the world by acting as a transitional power source by cranking a device to generate free electricity until we managed to make something that does that for him.

Actually little fun fact, there's a story where Peter gave a lesson at the Academy of Tomorrow and several students pointed out he wasted a lot of his potential. He could have trademarked the name, gone through a lot of things without giving away his identity and capitalised on it, then used the money to better not only his own life but a lot of others through charity works.

Still, you also gotta consider that his villains do the same thing but on a more destructive scale.