Star Wars the Force Awakens pitfalls.

[CrazyCajun777]

Hello, everybody. I like many of you am interested in the upcoming Star Wars film set to come out. I honestly suspect this movie to be pretty fun overall, but I also am worried about some of the possible pitfalls and temptations that might bring the movie over to the dark side.

and like any other pseudo intellectual, contrarian, couch director I want to talk about it.

1. Dont mess with Empire.
One of the major things that could potentially drive me crazy on the level of mass effect 3's ending altering the arcs and plot of the original trilogy (The Empire Strikes Back in particular). In the trailers we see two things that worry me on this subject.

First, we see Han in the same outfit he wore during the original trilogy. WHY? This is profoundly strange. He is significantly older, was a general in the rebellion, and more than likely married a princess. Why does he now dress like a smuggler still. Now, the actual clothing here does not actually concern me... it's not great but not scary. What concerns me is that they will back track. I worry that Han and Leia will have gone their separate ways and now Han is back to his old shenanigans. What bothers me about this is the possibility that all of that character development we received during the first films and going to be thrown out the window and we'll get Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Han is a character who grew a lot during the series and is the only fellow who was able to completely dodge the prequels. If there is one character the movie would do well to not screw with it would be this one.

Second, we see lots of good old empire stuff, you know, stormtroopers and tie fighters and stuff. WHY? The primary focus of the original trilogy was to overthrow the empire and take back the galaxy for the republic. What happened? It's been over 30 years and they are still kicking around? This i suspect will be halfway explained by it being some remnant faction or by it being a grassroots terrorist kind of group immolating the empire of old. I personally am not a fan of it. I know they love fan service, but to keep the empire around greatly diminishes the events of the original trilogy.

2. Don't kill Chewy.
Now, a lot of people are predicting that they insert a death into this movie for emotional resonance. I too suspect this as a possibility. This idea doesn't bother me. I think it treads the line of mistaking a character's importance to the universe for the character's importance to the audience, but if done well it can function fine. My concern is they will kill the wrong one.

This brings me to my point, don't whip out and kill Chewbacca. Why not? because it will be cheap and it won't matter. Why? because... well...I'm gonna hurt some feelings here, but Chewy is not a character. Chewy is a space dog who helps fly the ship. Think about it. Outside of being loyal and temperamental (doglike traits) can you tell many anything about Chewy that isn't directly related to his looks or job and doesn't make him sound like a puppy? You might, but it isn't too easy. Now, I like Chewy, as a concept. However, he is not someone easy to attach to as he has limited characterization and we as an audience, along with most of the characters, can't understand what he's saying. To kill him would be a very whimsy half hearted move. It would be trying to get an emotional loss without really losing a character. If this happens it will not work without some amazing 11th hour characterization of a space dog that has been in like 4 movies. However, it worries me that they will try anyway because they will be too afraid to kill a real character like Han, the more obvious choice.

3. Finn and Rey k-i-s-s-i-n oh, never mind.
Now, I generally avoided info about the movie and just plan to see it once it's out. However, I am pretty certain that the characters of Finn, stormtrooper guy, and Rey, scavenger girl, will almost certainly be our leads. What worries me is that once again the movie might take a half measure rather than go one way or another.

Brace yourselves, I'm going to talk about a bit of a scary subject, Interracial Romances.

As I'm sure most of you have noticed, the characters most likely to be our leads are of the opposite gender. You also may have noticed that the gentleman is black and the lady is white. This creates a touchy situation. It is often the case that the male and female leads fall in love. It's a cliche' true, but it is often effective. It is a form of personal reward for the trials and difficulty of the adventure. We as an audience like to feel like things are going to go well for our heroes after their adventure and a romance that is a product of the adventure is a great way to do this. Our heroes went through some stuff and now are rewarded with a relationship. Also, it tends to fit in well because they are generally going to have grown closer and learned to depend on each other over the course of the adventure anyway so romance is just a stone's throw away.

However, as previously stated, Rey is white and Finn is black. People, particularly white people who make up a large % of the star wars movie going audience, get a little uncomfortable with a black male and white female relationship. It isn't because they are monsters, but because they have some deep primal part of their mind that get's touchy about it. This is why you'll notice lots of films where a white man romances a nonwhite female, but not the other way around. It has to do with our natural perceptions about women as things, for lack of a better word, to be valued and protected along with the inherent us vs them mentality that human nature is geared towards. For this reason, I am worried that the film will want the two character's to be romantically interested in each other but will balk at it when the time comes. I am concerned that they will set up a romance with flirty dialogue and long looks with no real payoff and nobody wants that.

My hope is that they commit one way or the other. Either there is no romantic suggestion at all between the two characters or they go whole hog on it.

4. Another deathstar.
I don't know why, but it's a worrying possibility. jj, seriously, don't.

5. Dumb Lightsaber Fight. (Empire and Phantom spoilers)
Now, I'm pretty sure most people like lightsabers, I know I do. However, lightsaber fights are a tricky thing and the emotional conflict is often even more important that the physical one.

I'll break it down like this. Remember the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire? That was great. Not because it was super well choreographed but because of the situation behind the fight and the emotions the fight illicits. Not only was there light vs dark but it really played up the audience's feelings. The dark lighting, the smoke, the slow pace of Vader's approach it all played on how you were already warned that Luke wasn't ready for this. Combine that with the hard hitting swings that often looked sloppy, but conveyed the intense struggle Luke was under and it made for a great scene.

Too often in the prequels the lightsabers fights were too clean and focused on the fancy flips rather than what the audience was supposed to feel during the fight. The fight between Darth Maul and the two jedi at the end of Phantom Menace is a great example of this. We barely know who this bad guy is. He has little character development and can feel like he was inserted purely for a cool fight, admittedly he does affect the plot but we as an audience generally don't care about Obi fighting him until his master dies. He's just some bad guy and they fight in some weird space place...cause it looks cool.

I like lightsaber fights but they only work when backed up by emotion and characters. I worry that a lightsaber fight will just happen because it's star wars and of course we need a lightsaber fight. That would be lame.



Anyway, that's my complaining. I hope you enjoyed reading this. Have a nice day

 

[Sniper Team 4]

1) The Empire still being around makes sense if you ask me. Even in the Expanded Universe, the Empire wasn't overthrown and fell apart right after Return of the Jedi. It took the Rebellion/New Republic many years before they finally "won", and even then, the Empire still remained, having its own section of the galaxy.
What I do find strange is that the Empire still has so much power that the Rebellion is now called the Resistance--as in, they are not in equal terms, but are still struggling. That is going to take some explaining I believe.
And Han's outfit is classic Han. Vader wore the same outfit, same color scheme, for decades. Indian Jones doesn't really change his look either. I still have a few jackets from years ago that I like to pop on.

2) I literally cried when Chewie was killed in the books. Tears on my face. To each his own. There are a lot of people--especially kids--who will be crushed properly if Chewie dies.

3) All I will say is that I never thought twice about the fact that Parker and Hardison were a couple in Leverage.

4) Death Star? Please. It looks like we're getting a Death PLANET! Okay, yeah, I'm kind of on board with this one. Unless the movie starts with them launching an attack to take this thing out and the rest of the movie is about something else, I don't really like the idea. It smacks of the Empire not learning their lesson (third time is NOT the charm, guys) in-universe, and out of the universe, it smacks of the writers just rehashing Star Wars.

5) While I thought the fight between Maul, Obi, and Jinn was fun to watch, I do agree that it was more flash than substance. I would like to see a return to Empire and Return styles of fighting. Maybe throw in a little bit of flare here and there, but don't overdo it. I got bored watching Anankin and Obi fight in Revenge of the Sith. If I get bored during a lightsaber fight, there is something wrong with your lightsaber fight.
However, if the look on Finn's face is a clue, and the amount of effort Kylo is putting into that swing is a sample, then I'm betting we will get a good fight. Finn won't be trying to win, but desperately trying to stay alive, much like Luke was in Empire.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Brace yourselves, I'm going to talk about a bit of a scary subject, Interracial Romances...People, particularly white people who make up a large % of the star wars movie going audience, get a little uncomfortable with a black male and white female relationship...It has to do with our natural perceptions about women as things, for lack of a better word, to be valued and protected along with the inherent us vs them mentality that human nature is geared towards.

Perhaps older generations may harbor such sentiments (and even then it varies wildly on an individual basis), but for me personally I can't help but bristle at the implication.

I think I speak for many of us here when I say I was born and raised in a post-Civil Rights, post-first and second wave feminism world. I've had the pleasure of knowing many good-natured people of all colors, religions, genders and sexual preferences. I grew up consuming media that depicted a staggering variety of relationships, from the stereotypical white nuclear family in reruns of The Dick Van Dyke Show to all manner of interspecies and pansexual romance in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. It's gotten to the point where I don't even register diversity anymore unless someone goes out of their way to point it out to me. Thus, when someone makes unwarranted assumptions that I cling to outdated racial views simply because I'm white I'm going to feel just a wee bit resentful.

In other words, whatever relationship Finn and Rey will have (romantic or platonic) is a complete non-issue for me. Just as long as it's written better than the "romance" in Attack of the Clones. THAT'S true audience discomfort right there...

Personally, my biggest concern about the film is how everything appears to be largely unchanged from the classic trilogy. Underground resistance movement vs. evil empire, X-Wings and Tie Fighters, Stormtroopers, Darth Vader look-alike, Death Star look-alike, etc. There's a difference between evoking nostalgia and exploiting it. Say what you will about the prequels, but at least they mixed things up a bit with different aesthetics.

 

[LetalisK]

Eh. The end fight of Phantom Menance is my favorite fight of Star Wars. It may have been the cotton candy of fights, but it is super yummy cotton candy.

 

[Zontar]

4) Death Star? Please. It looks like we're getting a Death PLANET! Okay, yeah, I'm kind of on board with this one. Unless the movie starts with them launching an attack to take this thing out and the rest of the movie is about something else, I don't really like the idea. It smacks of the Empire not learning their lesson (third time is NOT the charm, guys) in-universe, and out of the universe, it smacks of the writers just rehashing Star Wars.

In all fairness, they didn't learn in the EU either given the Galaxy Gun, which this armoured planet seemed to be effectively a copy of. But yeah, this really ticked me off as well given just how many damned warships they could have built with those resources.

Also, why the FUCK is "The Resistance" a thing? They use X-wings, they use the Rebellion/New Republic's emblem, and they are fighting the New Order, Han and Leia are clearly working with them, why the hell are they a new organization instead of being the New Republic?

 

[Politrukk]

I think they've tried to cram in diversity without alerting the media to it and it's going to be a small waste on the franchise.

Not because I have anything against POC'S or Women but because Star Wars has always been about the Skywalkers and wether it's children fathered by Luke or children fathered by Leia the continuation of that line should have been the focus for the main character.

Instead of the Skywalkers we're now getting characters in the line of Starkiller,Ahsoka Tano,Ezra Bridger.
Now honestly Star Wars Clone Wars and yes even The Force Unleashed have proven that different characters in the universe actually make the story so much better than the bland progression that was the pre 2000's character of Luke Skywalker.

Luke is an incredibly bland character by the standards of today and it might be a mistake to continue down that line again however the Skywalkers are the true MC's of the Star Wars story.

My fear is that these new characters will feel forced, especially because they're also filling in the diversity spectrum from what I've heard it feels like a ticking of boxes instead of going for actual character/world building and due to the fact that we've already had a spew of characters that were mild to grand successors this leaves a bigger gap for the next ones to become failures.


Edit:

Oh and retconning the EA was obviously not a good move in any case and it will hurt the movie regardless of what they do right.

 

[Thaluikhain]

1. Hmmm...yeah...though, maybe he's having a mid-life crisis, and wants to relive his hero days, or was deeply traumatised by them? I don't believe they'd do something like that, though.

As for Emprie stuff, it's not like the old ships would cease to be just cause they offed the Emperor.

3. You have a point there.

Perhaps older generations may harbor such sentiments (and even then it varies wildly on an individual basis), but for me personally I can't help but bristle at the implication.

I think I speak for many of us here when I say I was born and raised in a post-Civil Rights, post-first and second wave feminism world. I've had the pleasure of knowing many good-natured people of all colors, religions, genders and sexual preferences. I grew up consuming media that depicted a staggering variety of relationships, from the stereotypical white nuclear family in reruns of The Dick Van Dyke Show to all manner of interspecies and pansexual romance in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. It's gotten to the point where I don't even register diversity anymore unless someone goes out of their way to point it out to me. Thus, when someone makes unwarranted assumptions that I cling to outdated racial views simply because I'm white I'm going to feel just a wee bit resentful.

Um..now, I don't want to seem as if I'm attacking you, nor that I consider myself perfect in this regard, but...

When someone says they don't see diversity/race/whatever, that's usually not a good sign. When someone sees a statement about how there's a problem with racism amongst white people and they decide to take it personally, that's really not a good sign.

As much as we would like to think otherwise, the OP is correct, there is an issue there, though exactly how big of one is up for debate. Getting annoyed and declaring "but not me!" really isn't helpful.

Now, again, I don't mean this as an attack, this sort of thing is something I've been guilty of myself, and it's something I feel better for having had pointed out to me (though, of course, not so much at the time).

 

[Politrukk]

5. Dumb Lightsaber Fight. (Empire and Phantom spoilers)
Now, I'm pretty sure most people like lightsabers, I know I do. However, lightsaber fights are a tricky thing and the emotional conflict is often even more important that the physical one.

I'll break it down like this. Remember the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire? That was great. Not because it was super well choreographed but because of the situation behind the fight and the emotions the fight illicits. Not only was there light vs dark but it really played up the audience's feelings. The dark lighting, the smoke, the slow pace of Vader's approach it all played on how you were already warned that Luke wasn't ready for this. Combine that with the hard hitting swings that often looked sloppy, but conveyed the intense struggle Luke was under and it made for a great scene.

Too often in the prequels the lightsabers fights were too clean and focused on the fancy flips rather than what the audience was supposed to feel during the fight. The fight between Darth Maul and the two jedi at the end of Phantom Menace is a great example of this. We barely know who this bad guy is. He has little character development and can feel like he was inserted purely for a cool fight, admittedly he does affect the plot but we as an audience generally don't care about Obi fighting him until his master dies. He's just some bad guy and they fight in some weird space place...cause it looks cool.

I like lightsaber fights but they only work when backed up by emotion and characters. I worry that a lightsaber fight will just happen because it's star wars and of course we need a lightsaber fight. That would be lame.



Anyway, that's my complaining. I hope you enjoyed reading this. Have a nice day

I've never understood how people could not find the Darth Maul fight engaging, you were supposed to care about Qui-Gon-Jin and because I watched the movies fresh I did.

Honestly Qui-Gon-Jin not dying right in the first movie might have made the prequels better.
Actually the fact that Darth Maul dies straight away is even worse, there should have been more build-up.
I don't think Darth Maul needed more explaining but the entire scene makes the plot of the first movie pointless and disconnected from the rest of the series and I believe this is why people hated it (aside from not having a fresh perspective).
If the entire thing would have happened in a Clone Wars style of series it might have turned out much better, it would have given us time to grow to love Qui-Gon-Jin and see Anakin trained and understood to have that all culminate in the first thing that is taken away from him and sets him on the road to bitterness.

The only answer I can find is that people did not go into the Phantom Menace with a fresh mind and that will be the same for this new trilogy.

Arguably it might be worse because of Clone Wars and Rebels trying to fix all the gaps in the existing canon as a whole so now you have 6 movies 2 tv shows and arguably those couple of games and a removed Expanded Universe that are filling your mind with expectation.

 

[Politrukk]

5. Dumb Lightsaber Fight. (Empire and Phantom spoilers)
Now, I'm pretty sure most people like lightsabers, I know I do. However, lightsaber fights are a tricky thing and the emotional conflict is often even more important that the physical one.

I'll break it down like this. Remember the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire? That was great. Not because it was super well choreographed but because of the situation behind the fight and the emotions the fight illicits. Not only was there light vs dark but it really played up the audience's feelings. The dark lighting, the smoke, the slow pace of Vader's approach it all played on how you were already warned that Luke wasn't ready for this. Combine that with the hard hitting swings that often looked sloppy, but conveyed the intense struggle Luke was under and it made for a great scene.

Too often in the prequels the lightsabers fights were too clean and focused on the fancy flips rather than what the audience was supposed to feel during the fight. The fight between Darth Maul and the two jedi at the end of Phantom Menace is a great example of this. We barely know who this bad guy is. He has little character development and can feel like he was inserted purely for a cool fight, admittedly he does affect the plot but we as an audience generally don't care about Obi fighting him until his master dies. He's just some bad guy and they fight in some weird space place...cause it looks cool.

I like lightsaber fights but they only work when backed up by emotion and characters. I worry that a lightsaber fight will just happen because it's star wars and of course we need a lightsaber fight. That would be lame.



Anyway, that's my complaining. I hope you enjoyed reading this. Have a nice day

I've never understood how people could not find the Darth Maul fight engaging, you were supposed to care about Qui-Gon-Jin and because I watched the movies fresh I did.

Honestly Qui-Gon-Jin not dying right in the first movie might have made the prequels better.
Actually the fact that Darth Maul dies straight away is even worse, there should have been more build-up.
I don't think Darth Maul needed more explaining but the entire scene makes the plot of the first movie pointless and disconnected from the rest of the series and I believe this is why people hated it (aside from not having a fresh perspective).
If the entire thing would have happened in a Clone Wars style of series it might have turned out much better, it would have given us time to grow to love Qui-Gon-Jin and see Anakin trained and understood to have that all culminate in the first thing that is taken away from him and sets him on the road to bitterness.

The only answer I can find is that people did not go into the Phantom Menace with a fresh mind and that will be the same for this new trilogy.

Arguably it might be worse because of Clone Wars and Rebels trying to fix all the gaps in the existing canon as a whole so now you have 6 movies 2 tv shows and arguably those couple of games and a removed Expanded Universe that are filling your mind with expectation.

 

[Zontar]

I've never understood how people could not find the Darth Maul fight engaging, you were supposed to care about Qui-Gon-Jin and because I watched the movies fresh I did.

Simple, the movie until that point hadn't really made most of the audience care about the characters (mainly due to the fact we don't know anything about them as characters outside of their roles) and the fight itself was choreographed too perfectly and had a very clear "aiming for their stick" feel to it instead of "aiming for their opponent" one.

It's a very obviously faked fight where the opportunities for all involved to land a lethal blow without the opponent being able to stop them where legion, it was all spectacle and no substance. I think it's telling that a regular person with basic sword fighting training could easily defeat a Jedi or Sith master in a lightsaber dual if the force was not used.

 

[Politrukk]

I've never understood how people could not find the Darth Maul fight engaging, you were supposed to care about Qui-Gon-Jin and because I watched the movies fresh I did.

Simple, the movie until that point hadn't really made most of the audience care about the characters (mainly due to the fact we don't know anything about them as characters outside of their roles) and the fight itself was choreographed too perfectly and had a very clear "aiming for their stick" feel to it instead of "aiming for their opponent" one.

It's a very obviously faked fight where the opportunities for all involved to land a lethal blow without the opponent being able to stop them where legion, it was all spectacle and no substance. I think it's telling that a regular person with basic sword fighting training could easily defeat a Jedi or Sith master in a lightsaber dual if the force was not used.

On the fight part itself I agree, I daresay however that I've always had a liking for Qui-Gon and I had not expected them to take him out during that movie I think the movie itself sort of set it up to make you feel real dissapointment.

Perhaps unbeknownst to the creators or perhaps on purpose Star Wars fans and newcomers alike were disillusioned after that fight concluded the movie and in a way gave you the sting that Anakin and Kenobi were supposed to have felt but for altogether different reasons.


Pah perhaps I'm too philisophical about this, don't know why I'm sort of derailing this topic though by defending that in the Phantom Menace but it is important to explain where I think the new movies may waver or fail.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Also, why the FUCK is "The Resistance" a thing? They use X-wings, they use the Rebellion/New Republic's emblem, and they are fighting the New Order, Han and Leia are clearly working with them, why the hell are they a new organization instead of being the New Republic?

They would not be proper Underdog Wolverines if they were a legitimate organization and government, cool people are resistance fighters, yo!

My main concern is that these movies will feel too cookie cutter for my tastes, bland villains, boring motivations, token cameos by the old cast, unsurprising romance with an "edgy interracial message" that stopped being controversial about forty years ago and excessive retreading of plot points from the original trilogy.

If all these things turn out to be unfounded fears, fabricated by my jaded mind, I'll be a happy camper indeed.

 

[Hawki]

1)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

2)

I'm fine if they kill Chewie. Honestly, I don't think any character should be off-limits.

3)

Um, what? I mean, really?

No, I'm not put off by inter-racial romance, and I have some personal experience in that area myself. If Finn and Rey hook up, skin colour is the last thought on my mind.

4)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

A giant base that destroys entire star systems. Um...

-Heh, didn't Star Trek 2009 feature galaxy-threatening supernovas?

-I was fine with the second Death Star. In fact, RotJ is my second favorite SW movie after A New Hope. I'm fine with Death Stars.

-Yet I think this is really pushing it. As others have pointed out, a lot of TFA seems to be riding on nostalgia whereas the prequels were very much their own thing. That said, the prequels show a transition towards the timeframe of Ep. IV (e.g. starship design), so maybe by Ep. IX we'll see a different era as well.

-That said, another superweapon. I think 'A Clone Apart' could sattarize this better than I could.

5) Honestly, the lightsaber fights in the prequels never really bugged me. They have pros and cons when compared to the originals. But I'm left to ask why a lightsabre should have any weight behind it at all.

 

[Thaluikhain]

3)

Um, what? I mean, really?

No, I'm not put off by inter-racial romance, and I have some personal experience in that area myself. If Finn and Rey hook up, skin colour is the last thought on my mind.

Well, yeah, but then wasn't the Doom movie changed so they are fighting mutants rather than demons because they were afraid that there'd be complaints? Not from most people, of course, but enough to make it easier not to annoy a small subset of Christians with too much time on their hands.

 

[Thaluikhain]

3)

Um, what? I mean, really?

No, I'm not put off by inter-racial romance, and I have some personal experience in that area myself. If Finn and Rey hook up, skin colour is the last thought on my mind.

Well, yeah, but then wasn't the Doom movie changed so they are fighting mutants rather than demons because they were afraid that there'd be complaints? Not from most people, of course, but enough to make it easier not to annoy a small subset of Christians with too much time on their hands.

This doesn't follow and your point is vague. I mean, who is going to complain about interracial romances?

Very few are going to outright complain about interracial romances (well, there were people complaining that the guy was black in the first place).

The idea that it might put people off, might hurt sales, even if the reason isn't given as such isn't so outlandish, though. If there is a chance that having an overt romance might reduce the profitability of the film, well, just easier to avoid that. Films do tend to have a disproportionately small amount of black men paired with white women, safer to not rock the boat.

Also, it doesn't require this to be an issue, just that the makers of the film to perceive that it is, or possibly might be one.

 

[aba1]

Not going to lie the race thing made me laugh and hard. Do people even care about "interracial dating" I still can't believe that's a term XD. I dunno maybe it is because I am from Canada and my dating record reads like a bingo chart to people who care about "race" but I honestly didn't even realize it was a thing till I learned it in high school. I always just assumed people dated who ever cause that's all anyone around me has ever done. The whole concept of race really needs to be dropped it only serves to hold us back as a society. It doesn't even really make sense as a concept the second you start questioning it because everyone has different standards for what is and isn't a race or who is and isn't part of what race. Its just dumb.

OT: I honestly think this movies going to be great I am curious to see how far the rebellion has come and how far the empire has fallen.