Superman destroyed Metropolis

[Ranorak]

So, I guess we all saw the trailer to the new The Dark Knight Ris- ...I mean Superman Vs Batman awn of Justice *snicker*

And I hear a lot of "At least they're recognizing that superman destroyed half of Metropolis"
Angry Joe mentions this, and a lot of posts here were happy that this is brought up as a plot point from the previous film.

And while I like the fact that they bring this up, I can't seriously believe that people blame Superman for this.

Zod was attacking and was planning to terraform the whole planet to make it ready for Kryptonian life. When superman asks what happens to the humans Zod makes it perfectly clear that they will not survive ( why he didn't just lie to Superman then and there, and get Superman to help him is a whole different point.)

So, the stakes are clear. If Zod wins the fight, the human race is doomed.
Yes, their fight might have cost of a lot of lives, and not to mention the property damage.

But the alternative is total slaughter.

Blaming Superman for the damage is like blaming the firefighters that after they put out the fire, they ruined the property by making everything wet.
Yes, it's wet, but you're not DEAD!

Yes, the fight might have demolished 50-75% of a single city, but saved the whole of the world!
And yes, I am well aware of the fact that comicbook Superman goes through great lengths to make sure that his fights don't look like the one from the movies.

But this is a different Superman and a newbie at that.

So, as a conclusion, I dislike the idea that someone would blame a hero on destruction when it was pretty clear that no one else could stop Zod and that the alternative would have been utter EXTERMINATION. It seems contrived and lazy writing to blame Superman for a wet floor.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Its been a while since I watched the first movie, but I don't think it was ever explained to the populous exactly what Zod was planning. Here's what the average person sees.

1. Zod shows up, claiming to be a legitimate spokesmen for his species. He tells everyone Kal-El (Superman) has been hiding among them, hinting but never saying that he's some sort of criminal or fugitive they want back. While he does so in a massively dickish and villainy way, and does make threats, his request seems rather reasonable.

2. Superman is turned in. Though this is not filmed, its likely that the US government did report this, seeing as the only other option is to let people panic.

3. Two alien devices are deployed that begin to destroy the areas local to them. Its unlikely the average person is aware of the implications of these devices (namely, that their Krypton-forming the planet).

4. A massive battle is waged against the devices. The first, that Superman destroys without breaking anything himself, is likely unfilmed and unreported on (It seems to be in the middle of no where). The one thats seen by millions is fought by the US Military who, from the perspective of the populace, get no assistance from Superman.

5. A huge, city destroying fight between the supposedly legitimate representative of an alien species and an alien whos been sneaking around in their society and who may be a fugitive breaks out. Only a handful of people actually witness Zod's cruelty.

Almost all of these events lack context to most people, and its not easily understandable who's doing what here. Was Superman REALLY the one who was saving the planet? Or did he just destroy an Army sent here to take him back to space jail?

And even with all that, its clear in the trailer that people like Batman aren't coming after him because they think he's a mustache twirling villain - Its because their unsure of his motives and what he will do, and they realize that by the time they are sure what he's all about, it'll be too late. They're being proactive about it.

 

[Ranorak]

The problem with the fight was that for most people it seems like Sups didn't even bother trying to drag Zod out of Metropolis, he could have just sniped him from afar with heat vision, forcing Zod to go after him and get out of the city (the Dark Souls tactic), instead it looked like Sups actually used the city itself against Zod, slamming him into buildings.

It's more like blaming the fire fighter after they detonated a thermo-nuclear device on you house from fear of the fire spreading to the houses next door.

Well, if the fight between Batman and superman is suppose to last longer then a heatvision to the face then of course they have to give superman the idiot ball during the fights. But someone equally powerful as you, with no actual combat experience. I think it was pretty clear he was fighting to survive and win.
Unlike the superman from the comics this one never had any combat training. And I know that if I were to get in a fight, I would probably not be all that mindful of my surroundings.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Blaming Superman for the damage is like blaming the firefighters that after they put out the fire, they ruined the property by making everything wet.
Yes, it's wet, but you're not DEAD!

There's a slight different. People knows what's a firefighter is and know what they capable of. Does the people know about Superman before the arrivial of Zod? No. Therefore the whole blame game is an reaction of their fear toward him due to how little they know of their "savior" and seeing what he is capable of and more.

Superman would probably have to do ALOT of public service to win them over to gain their trust.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, except Supes shows a complete disregard for human safety. You know the scene where Zod chucks a gas tank at him and Supes just flies out of the way and lets it crash and explode into the building behind him when he could have just as easily stopped it..? Or in the scene where Zod's threatening Ma Kent and instead of Supes quickly flying her to safety he just goes for Zod, because fighting. It's that kind of shit.

Protecting the citizens of Metropolis came second and having big epic Dragon Ball fights came first. That's why people "blame" him for all that mayhem. That final Metropolis fight should've shown Supes trying to fly Zod the fuck out of there. I've heard that 'he's still a newbie' excuse before, but just because he's new at this doesn't mean he's an infant. He's a grown man with seemingly good moral fiber, he should've known fighting Zod in a heavily populated area is a mistake and calls for a different approach than punching him through fucking buildings.

 

[Casual Shinji]

He's a grown man with seemingly good moral fiber,

Does MoS Superman have a good moral fiber though? Really? I mean between his dad telling him maybe he should have let a busload of kids die, his mother telling him he doesn't owe the world anything and clark totally wrecking that guys truck, likely ruining his livelihood forever, because he was a jerk, it's hard to see this moral fiber.

That's the problem with the movie; Clark's morality as opposed to how he acts. He's obviously the good guy and he never comes across as mean spirited in his speech and how he acts around others. But then he does things for the sake of the movie's destruction porn quota. Like the guy with the truck. Clark knows he can't get in a tussle with this guy, because the slightest struggle would kill him, so he takes his licks and lets the guy humiliate him. Turning the other cheek. This shows he cares more about the well being of others than getting even. But then he goes and wrecks the dude's truck so the movie can show a cool shot of a truck impaled by tree trunks.

 

[WonkyWarmaiden]

I see a lot of people compare the fight in Man of Steel to the ones in Dragon Ball Z and I'm here to say that those comparisons are completely unfair. Goku and his crew at least tried to pull their fights away from civilians.

The problem I have is that there seemed to be plenty of times Supes could have avoided destroying a building full of people but instead he just said fuck it and flew through it anyway. That isn't Superman to me.

Superman goes out of his way to make sure everyone is safe even if it leaves him open to attack from his enemies, that's probably one of his biggest weaknesses next to Krytonite. That's what makes him Superman, not just that he has powers but because he cares about the well-being of others to an almost naive level.

But that's just my interpretation of the character so this could all be wrong.

 

[LordLundar]

And while I like the fact that they bring this up, I can't seriously believe that people blame Superman for this.

I agree. I can't believe that they're finally holding him responsible.

Think about it. Look back at the comics, movies, and cartoon series in the past. Just HOW many time has Supes leveled several city blocks, if not whole sections of cities, all of which were far too densely populated to be evacuated in time? Hell metropolis is an insurance companies worst nightmare and any company operating in there would need to apply a "no reimbursement in event of Superman" clause.

And after all that's done, after superman has caused millions of dollars of property damage and unintentionally killed dozens, if not hundreds of people, he gets cheered on, praised as a hero, and walks away with no consequences.

 

[circularlogic88]

I see a lot of people compare the fight in Man of Steel to the ones in Dragon Ball Z and I'm here to say that those comparisons are completely unfair. Goku and his crew at least tried to pull their fights away from civilians.

The problem I have is that there seemed to be plenty of times Supes could have avoided destroying a building full of people but instead he just said fuck it and flew through it anyway. That isn't Superman to me.

Superman goes out of his way to make sure everyone is safe even if it leaves him open to attack from his enemies, that's probably one of his biggest weaknesses next to Krytonite. That's what makes him Superman, not just that he has powers but because he cares about the well-being of others to an almost naive level.

But that's just my interpretation of the character so this could all be wrong.

Not only that, but it would have raised the stakes moreso if he were not only fighting off Zod, but also having to rescue and defend people during the fray, showing that his compassion for life is becoming taxing on him while also trying to focus on Zod.

Edit: it's also worth pointing out that Zod, who was born into a more militant, combat lifestyle, should have been more technically proficient in combat, yet weaker due to less time exposed to the Yellow sun, while Clark should have been more powerful but unable to land blows onto Zod for his lack of combat experience. As it was, it just felt like both of them were action figures being banged together by a 5 year old.

 

[stroopwafel]

Before you know it Supes will be pissed off and say ''you ungrateful fucks'' before grabbing earth itself by the mud balls and slinging it out of orbit.

I don't know but I think they have to find a reason to put him against Batman and 'accountability' for the destruction in Man of Steel is as good a reason as any. Obviously that premise(including the mechanical armor) is based on The Dark Knight Returns where Supes was a government stooge and Batman was no longer wanted by the Reagan administration. In Batman vs Superman it seems they kind of turned these roles around.

Zack Snyder's movies(Man of Steel included) are absolutely vapid in terms of story but the action scenes are always amazing. Being a big fan of The Dark Knight Returns the fight between Superman and Batman alone is making me look forward to this movie.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Edit: it's also worth pointing out that Zod, who was born into a more militant, combat lifestyle, should have been more technically proficient in combat, yet weaker due to less time exposed to the Yellow sun, while Clark should have been more powerful but unable to land blows onto Zod for his lack of combat experience. As it was, it just felt like both of them were action figures being banged together by a 5 year old.

The one with the most experience at flying has been doing it for, at best, 2 days. Neither one of them really knows what the hell their doing.

 

[SmugFrog]

Blaming Superman for the damage is like blaming the firefighters that after they put out the fire, they ruined the property by making everything wet.

I'm by no means a big fan of the movie or the storyline they used, but I see what you're getting at, but I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. This is like blaming all firefighters for starting the fire (when one did), but there's another firefighter that is putting out the fire.

Or even better, here's a real world example:

What about cops that are bad cops (leading to widespread hate against the police), when there are still good cops out there.

Or an alien race that causes widespread destruction, and a member of that race is trying to prevent it.

Does that make more sense? People will be quick to judge (as many do with the police force) - there's a "they're all bad" or a "they're not all bad" mentality that is spoon-fed by the media coverage. People are sheep - they'll fall into whatever widespread charismatic propaganda. If you had someone killed in Metropolis in all that carnage, wouldn't you be a little skeptical about something that you do not understand completely?

 

[kris40k]

Before you know it Supes will be pissed off and say ''you ungrateful fucks'' before grabbing earth itself by the mud balls and slinging it out of orbit.

Actually, he'll just plunge into the earths core and destroy the planet.

Oh shit, I just realized it, the movie version is Superman-Prime!!!

Meh, they wouldn't be that meta.

 

[circularlogic88]

Edit: it's also worth pointing out that Zod, who was born into a more militant, combat lifestyle, should have been more technically proficient in combat, yet weaker due to less time exposed to the Yellow sun, while Clark should have been more powerful but unable to land blows onto Zod for his lack of combat experience. As it was, it just felt like both of them were action figures being banged together by a 5 year old.

The one with the most experience at flying has been doing it for, at best, 2 days. Neither one of them really knows what the hell their doing.

I find that to be a big problem : no one knows what the hell they are doing. I find that excuse to be too dismissive. Does that mean it's okay that Clark condemned unborn children of Krypton because a defunct Kryptonian regime sentenced to rot in the Phantom Zone was starting shit on Earth? Because of their actions, "Krypton had its chance." Why should I feel bad thathe snapped Zod's neck when has no qualms about genocide?

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, the fight might have demolished 50-75% of a single city, but saved the whole of the world!

And somehow, only caused dozens of deaths.

But what I take from this is that the character whose defining trait is that he's the big Red and Blue Boy Scout is merely the lesser of two evils.

Who, incidentally, brought the fight into public areas from more secluded ones.

But trying to justify this is pointless, as...

Zack Snyder's movies(Man of Steel included) are absolutely vapid in terms of story but the action scenes are always amazing. Being a big fan of The Dark Knight Returns the fight between Superman and Batman alone is making me look forward to this movie.

Basically that. Arguing about the shallow story for a Snyder movie is like arguing about the tax on the pizza in a 80s porn movie. You're not supposed to think about it, you're supposed to want to get into the action. Which goes with the rest of Stroop's post.

I don't know but I think they have to find a reason to put him against Batman and 'accountability' for the destruction in Man of Steel is as good a reason as any. Obviously that premise(including the mechanical armor) is based on The Dark Knight Returns where Supes was a government stooge and Batman was no longer wanted by the Reagan administration. In Batman vs Superman it seems they kind of turned these roles around.

This movie's hatred of Superman is similarly a paper-thin setup to get you to the action. This might be more the pool boy than the pizza delivery guy, but it's just an excuse to get to the fighting. Which is all I want to see anyway. I wish there was omre fighting in MOS. It could have been two hours of Superman and Zod smashing buildings and I wouldn't have thought twice.

I suppose I'm the wrong person to be arguing about this, then. I thought the contrivances of MOS were stupid. But I also don't care much.

What about cops that are bad cops (leading to widespread hate against the police), when there are still good cops out there.

What if there's a bad cop that is a known bad cop, and the good cop draws him into a public place, knowing he's armed and dangers, and tries to arrest him? What if he prolongs a shootout in the middle of a busy street to bring in the bad cop?

You know, there was a Spider-Man comic years back that very briefly dealt with the superhero genre by asking the question of why superheroes survive so long. The answer: they're allowed to survive because of teh chaos they cause. It's a shame that Spidey basically went right back to punching guys, and this movie's going to do that too, if the trailer's accurate. Because an actual deconstruction of the superhero cliches involved could be awesome. But then, so could a straight-out punch-up.

The "you're reckless and irresponsible so I'm going to have a massive and reckless punch-up with you" thing is just stupid. Given the heaviness of it, this looks stupid even by comic book standards.

And I'm busy reading a comic where the ghost of Peter Parker is trying to protect people from being killed by Doctor Octopus in Peter's body. I'm watching Snidely Whiplash speak from Spider-Man's mouth and I'm okay with that. Somehow, this is worse.

 

[Something Amyss]

Why should I feel bad thathe snapped Zod's neck when has no qualms about genocide?

Because when you kill one person, you're a monster, but when you kill millions, you're a hero.

 

[happyninja42]

I'm pretty sure that we hold the various public service agencies responsible for any property damage they inflict in the course of their job. Or at least there is inquiry into it, to see if it was a necessary amount of damage to accomplish the goal (catching the bad guy).

I'm sure there are clauses that can help authorities get out of responsibility, but if a cop destroyed an entire city block to try and get at one guy, that cop would have to answer for the damages inflicted. Seems reasonable to ask the same of Supes.

I mean I remember sitting in the theater and asking myself "was that really necessary?" to his various actions with Zod.