Tasteless Depictions of Nuclear War

[Soviet Heavy]

Time for round two in Soviet Heavy's mental breakdown over violence in the media. First, a burnout on shooters and combat focused games. Now, a rant on Nuclear devastation and its abuse in media.

I watched Terminator 2 yesterday. You can tell where this is going, probably, but for the three people who haven't seen it, there is a particular scene that stands out for me.

It's terrifying to watch, and to me, is one of the best depictions of how unbelievably, fundamentally different nuclear war is from conventional fighting. It isn't to conquer, it is to destroy. It's not a 'wow' scene, it isn't exciting. It's horrifying, and unbearably tragic.

I was born after the Cold War ended. I never grew up with siren drills, or the threat of nuclear annihilation. But I understand and empathize with those who did. Even if the above is just a work of fiction, it is the manifestation of the fear that my parents would have grown up with. More importantly, it was done so tastefully. Which is more that can be said for other depictions of nuclear wars that I have seen.

Settings like Mass Effect, or Warhammer 40000, will use Nukes as a unit of measurement to try and sell you on how great and awesome the power of their weaponry is. And it is meant to be shown as cool. "Whoa, that ship's gun fires shots three times more powerful than the Little Boy? Wicked!" That's what we're being told, not "Dear god, this is a weapon of mass destruction greater than the most infamous weapon in modern history, and we are making a joke out of it."

Or games like Call of Duty, where a nuke goes off, and it tries to be tasteful. You get to crawl around a wind swept city while your body collapses from radiation! It is played for shock value, and while I admit, I got a reaction from it the first time I played, as the series went on, I soured towards it. It wasn't there to be a meaningful message of the effects of a Nuke strike, it was just there to look edgy. Just like civilian massacres in MW2, or the gas bombing in MW3. It lost its impact and its credibility.

If you are going to depict a nuclear strike in your game, film, song, or book, you better fucking follow through on it. It isn't just a matter of "big explosion, gets attention", you need to show just what it does to people. It isn't just in the act itself, but the emotion and the tone surrounding it. Firing off such a device while saying "cool, mushroom cloud!" is cheapening the horror.

I am not going to tell anyone what to think. I am just disgusted with the oversaturation of violent, meaningless entertainment right now. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I think I need time away from media to think for a bit.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Agreed that scene is fucking terrifying. You're right though there is something inherently terrifying about nuclear weapons in comparison to normal weapons that games cannot seem to capture, probably through lack of trying I guess.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Isn't this like the use of Rape in fiction but with out the already installed weight behind it?

I feel the same way about Nuclear weapons. After I fell in love with fallout I spent a good chunk of time researching nuclear weapons and it's just frankly horrid. The movie "The Day After" is probably the most exploitative of it, but watching that flick really changed me. A weapon that powerful should never has fallen into the hands of humans, and it's only a matter of time before we unleash them again. We won't be saved by Mutually Assured Destruction forever.

That said, my feelings on the subject have limits. It is true that humour and flippancy are great ways for the mind to deal with the horror of this planet. Can't treat it serious all the time, you'll go insane thinking about it.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

Time for round two in Soviet Heavy's mental breakdown over violence in the media. First, a burnout on shooters and combat focused games. Now, a rant on Nuclear devastation and its abuse in media.

I watched Terminator 2 yesterday. You can tell where this is going, probably, but for the three people who haven't seen it, there is a particular scene that stands out for me.

It's terrifying to watch, and to me, is one of the best depictions of how unbelievably, fundamentally different nuclear war is from conventional fighting. It isn't to conquer, it is to destroy. It's not a 'wow' scene, it isn't exciting. It's horrifying, and unbearably tragic.

I was born after the Cold War ended. I never grew up with siren drills, or the threat of nuclear annihilation. But I understand and empathize with those who did. Even if the above is just a work of fiction, it is the manifestation of the fear that my parents would have grown up with. More importantly, it was done so tastefully. Which is more that can be said for other depictions of nuclear wars that I have seen.

Settings like Mass Effect, or Warhammer 40000, will use Nukes as a unit of measurement to try and sell you on how great and awesome the power of their weaponry is. And it is meant to be shown as cool. "Whoa, that ship's gun fires shots three times more powerful than the Little Boy? Wicked!" That's what we're being told, not "Dear god, this is a weapon of mass destruction greater than the most infamous weapon in modern history, and we are making a joke out of it."

Or games like Call of Duty, where a nuke goes off, and it tries to be tasteful. You get to crawl around a wind swept city while your body collapses from radiation! It is played for shock value, and while I admit, I got a reaction from it the first time I played, as the series went on, I soured towards it. It wasn't there to be a meaningful message of the effects of a Nuke strike, it was just there to look edgy. Just like civilian massacres in MW2, or the gas bombing in MW3. It lost its impact and its credibility.

If you are going to depict a nuclear strike in your game, film, song, or book, you better fucking follow through on it. It isn't just a matter of "big explosion, gets attention", you need to show just what it does to people. It isn't just in the act itself, but the emotion and the tone surrounding it. Firing off such a device while saying "cool, mushroom cloud!" is cheapening the horror.

I am not going to tell anyone what to think. I am just disgusted with the oversaturation of violent, meaningless entertainment right now. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I think I need time away from media to think for a bit.

I think these are excellent points, though I've noticed that since this movie came out I've rarely seen film depictions of atomic or hydrogen bombs blasts (TM 2 depicts a modern day hydrogen bomb detonation). "The Sum of All Fears" shows a low uranium, crude (by military standards) made nuclear bomb detonating in Baltimore...but they shied away from the horror for the most part to focus more on the Russian-US stand-off.

Them not showing it as often in cinema may be due to the legacy of these weapons, the cold war might still be too fresh for a lot of people, or the belief that the threat of nuclear war has passed (aside from some fear mongering about Iran) which I think is a bit naive.

This scene from TM2 I think is one of the greatest scenes in modern cinema, people tend to overlook it but it has always stuck out in my mind.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

[quote="Soviet Heavy" post="18.410248.17178423" Snip.[/quote]

Also it should be noted that many horrible weapons fall into this category, though people in the West might not care or have thought about it much. True, nuclear weapons are the most powerful, but if you've seen the civilian victims of US/NATO weapons (and talked to survivors) we spread this level of terror everyday. Fallujah is a grim example of absolute slaughter and mayhem whose effects are still being felt in malformed, or stillborn babies, and sick residents due to the depleted uranium-tipped rounds fired by US attack aircraft that have irradiate the water supply.

There are conventional bombs that literally suck the air out of victim's lungs upon detonation, before the air itself is ignited like a match to propane fumes with the entire area (a mile or so wide) is reduced to ashes.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

I'm curious. Do you count Fallout as a proper depiction of the effects of nuclear war?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Snip

I'm curious. Do you count Fallout as a proper depiction of the effects of nuclear war?

Fallout isn't about Nuclear War itself, or the destructive power that it holds. Fallout is, to me, a story of how humanity can move on after such an event. It isn't the focus of the story, but the setting's catalyst. And yet, I still say that Ron Perlman's cynical narration of humanity in Fallout 2 is restrained and respectful of the subject matter.

And I never used the nuke launcher in New Vegas anyways. Not for any ethical standpoint on the weapons, but more because I never used the explosives skill.

I will say this though: nuking Megaton is right up there with COD4 for pissing away consequences. An entire settlement is leveled, and the only major effect is that one character is now a ghoul. There is no emotional weight behind it, and Moira just laughs it off anyways. Nevermind that a whle town of friends have been turned to dust, you get to study the effects of radioactive skin cells!

Compare that to the Divide. Actually, don't, because that would be giving Fallout 3 too much credit in the writing department. Look at the consequences of atomic warfare in Lonesome Road. Ulysses becomes a vengeful judge of humanity because of how much the destruction cost him. You see first hand the results of your actions. A handful of missiles can end everything that had happened since humanity had recovered. It had a weight behind it.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Also it should be noted that many horrible weapons fall into this category, though people in the West might not care or have thought about it much. True, nuclear weapons are the most powerful, but if you've seen the civilian victims of US/NATO weapons (and talked to survivors) we spread this level of terror everyday. Fallujah is a grim example of absolute slaughter and mayhem whose effects are still being felt in malformed, or stillborn babies, and sick residents due to the depleted uranium-tipped rounds fired by US attack aircraft that have irradiate the water supply.

There are conventional bombs that literally suck the air out of victim's lungs upon detonation, before the air itself is ignited like a match to propane fumes with the entire area (a mile or so wide) is reduced to ashes.

Nuclear warheads are still the most visible and well known WMDs, so it's obvious why people would choose them for their super explosion bringer setpiece spectacles. That just compounds the problem I have in the first place. Not only are we glorifying and exploiting some of the worst destructive tools in history, but we are doing so at the expense and ignorance of other atrocities.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Nukes ARE cool. Too powerful to use, yet everybody wants them. The Cold War was a terrifying time, for sure, but nuclear weapons were the only reason it never went hot. Millions would have died in what would likely have been called WW3. Instead, we got decades of paranoia, and a few smaller proxy wars. I firmly believe that until the day all the nukes go off and kill everyone (upon which I will admit I was wrong), the invention of nuclear weapons was a blessing in disguise. Using nukes is horrific to think about, but then that's why hollywood uses them: shock value.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I feel like Nuclear Warfare is no worse than any other warfare that has ever preceded it's existence.

If you think about it, while nuclear weapons are much more powerful than what humans have ever had before their invention, at the same time there's more humans in the world than there have ever been before. As such, a normal scale war from any previous era would have been just as devastating to the human population as a nuclear weapon is to ours.

So I'd say nuclear war is owed the same deference that any war, it isn't special in it's horribleness.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I'd say the most extraordinary thing about the nuclear bomb isn't even its sweeping potential for destruction: it's the enormous impact it's had on the public consciousness.

Or, in other words, the most amazing thing about the bomb was your post.

Take that however you will.

 

[piinyouri]

Well I most certainly shouldn't have watched that.
I've had severe nightmares about that sort of thing. I've woken up screaming at the top of my lungs, like I was in real mortal danger.

As far as the topic, ummm Nuclear Strike maybe?

Then again, nothing was really taken seriously in that series so hard to call them out just on the nuke thing.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I feel like Nuclear Warfare is no worse than any other warfare that has ever preceded it's existence.

If you think about it, while nuclear weapons are much more powerful than what humans have ever had before their invention, at the same time there's more humans in the world than there have ever been before. As such, a normal scale war from any previous era would have been just as devastating to the human population as a nuclear weapon is to ours.

So I'd say nuclear war is owed the same deference that any war, it isn't special in it's horribleness.

Why then do you think it is treated with such deference? I'm genuinely curious.

Japan remembers carpet bombing runs far less than it does the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why is that?

Because it's different and therefore scary.

If your country is attacked in an expected way during a time of war, it's scary. If it's attacked in an unconventional way it's horrifying, because it makes the attack entirely unpredictable.

I'm sure that if Roman Legionaries suddenly started running through Tokyo stabbing everyone they saw Japan would remember that attack just as well as it did the nuclear bombs.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

I will say this though: nuking Megaton is right up there with COD4 for pissing away consequences. An entire settlement is leveled, and the only major effect is that one character is now a ghoul. There is no emotional weight behind it, and Moira just laughs it off anyways. Nevermind that a whle town of friends have been turned to dust, you get to study the effects of radioactive skin cells!

Compare that to the Divide. Actually, don't, because that would be giving Fallout 3 too much credit in the writing department. Look at the consequences of atomic warfare in Lonesome Road. Ulysses becomes a vengeful judge of humanity because of how much the destruction cost him. You see first hand the results of your actions. A handful of missiles can end everything that had happened since humanity had recovered. It had a weight behind it.

Yeah well, that's because Bethesda cant write for shit and Oblivion/Black Iles can In that regard, New Vegas is miles ahead of F3 anyway.

Warhammer 40000

I have to defend Warhammer here a bit. I'm no expert, but as far as I know the whole scenario of Warhammer is highly cynicle. Therefor its inhabitants obsession with weapons, dominion and war are ment to be disgusting.

 

[Albino Boo]

I feel like Nuclear Warfare is no worse than any other warfare that has ever preceded it's existence.

If you think about it, while nuclear weapons are much more powerful than what humans have ever had before their invention, at the same time there's more humans in the world than there have ever been before. As such, a normal scale war from any previous era would have been just as devastating to the human population as a nuclear weapon is to ours.

So I'd say nuclear war is owed the same deference that any war, it isn't special in it's horribleness.

There has at no point, before nuclear weapons, been the ability to kill 80% of the human race in 40 minutes flat. World war 2 only killed 3.7% of the population of the world in six years.The highest percentage of population of the world killed was the wars of Genghis Khan which killed 11% over 25 years. The destructive power of nuclear weapons is several orders of magnitude higher than anything that existed in the past.

 

[Thaluikhain]

There has at no point, before nuclear weapons, been the ability to kill 80% of the human race in 40 minutes flat.

And, up to now, there still is not.

The effects of nuclear weapons are grossly over-exaggerated, to the extent that many people don't feel that any precautions are worth taking in the event of an attack. Should a war occur, this would cost millions of lives.

 

[Bluestorm83]

Time for round two in Soviet Heavy's mental breakdown over violence in the media. First, a burnout on shooters and combat focused games. Now, a rant on Nuclear devastation and its abuse in media.

I watched Terminator 2 yesterday. You can tell where this is going, probably, but for the three people who haven't seen it, there is a particular scene that stands out for me.

It's terrifying to watch, and to me, is one of the best depictions of how unbelievably, fundamentally different nuclear war is from conventional fighting. It isn't to conquer, it is to destroy. It's not a 'wow' scene, it isn't exciting. It's horrifying, and unbearably tragic.

I was born after the Cold War ended. I never grew up with siren drills, or the threat of nuclear annihilation. But I understand and empathize with those who did. Even if the above is just a work of fiction, it is the manifestation of the fear that my parents would have grown up with. More importantly, it was done so tastefully. Which is more that can be said for other depictions of nuclear wars that I have seen.

Settings like Mass Effect, or Warhammer 40000, will use Nukes as a unit of measurement to try and sell you on how great and awesome the power of their weaponry is. And it is meant to be shown as cool. "Whoa, that ship's gun fires shots three times more powerful than the Little Boy? Wicked!" That's what we're being told, not "Dear god, this is a weapon of mass destruction greater than the most infamous weapon in modern history, and we are making a joke out of it."

Or games like Call of Duty, where a nuke goes off, and it tries to be tasteful. You get to crawl around a wind swept city while your body collapses from radiation! It is played for shock value, and while I admit, I got a reaction from it the first time I played, as the series went on, I soured towards it. It wasn't there to be a meaningful message of the effects of a Nuke strike, it was just there to look edgy. Just like civilian massacres in MW2, or the gas bombing in MW3. It lost its impact and its credibility.

If you are going to depict a nuclear strike in your game, film, song, or book, you better fucking follow through on it. It isn't just a matter of "big explosion, gets attention", you need to show just what it does to people. It isn't just in the act itself, but the emotion and the tone surrounding it. Firing off such a device while saying "cool, mushroom cloud!" is cheapening the horror.

I am not going to tell anyone what to think. I am just disgusted with the oversaturation of violent, meaningless entertainment right now. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I think I need time away from media to think for a bit.

No. I can unequivocally say that because fiction is not only not reality, it's not supposed to be reality. It's not there to show us how horrid and sad reality can be. It doesn't really have to be or do anything besides what the creator intends. And frankly, nobody can tell an artist to do anything at all. It's their art, not ours.

Games aren't just art or just fiction. They're some kind of Double Art and Double Fiction where not only is it not real, but even the unreality in it is not real. When Yoshi eats a turtle, nobody complains that we aren't shown the graphic, bloody facts of what it would look like if a dinosaur ate a turtle its own height. Because it's not a dinosaur eating a turtle, it's not even a fictionalization of a dinosaur eating a turtle. It's a fictional scenario set in a non-earth setting where physics themselves follow different rules (Can't run fast with a cape and launch into the sky, yo,) where every single interaction a Man might have with a creature or object is regulated by Gameplay Rules. The same goes to Nuclear Weapons in videogames.

Let's suppose that a Nuclear Bomb goes off in a movie. We see the aftermath, the radiation poisoning, the shattered lives, the starvation of the refugees, the possible war stemming from that act, maybe even the decimation of the planet through M.A.D. Now, who's died? Nobody. Who's suffered? Nobody. None of that was real; the actors who portrayed that are actually better now than they were before the event. Now they've been paid, have added to their portfolios, and have made more contacts in the film industry. Dial the lens out even more, and take that same situation in the videogame. Nothing at all has happened. Not only was nobody killed, nobody even EXISTED in the first place. Ones and Zeroes have flicked around on a silicon chip. The only thing real involved in the experience is what every person takes away from it.

For videogamers, young videogames, even my own seven year old cousin, Video Games are not real. At all. Team Deathmatch is not two groups of bloodthirsty madmen, battling to murder each other in gruesome bloodsport. It's Hide and Seek. Sure, Dylan might have just hit Reese in the face with a rocket propelled grenade and blown him to red bits. Then what? I win, round two. Nobody's hurt, because nothing is real. When these two kids hang out in reality, they don't start stabbing each other with real knives; because that IS real, and Fake Game and Real Reality are not the same. Children know that, I know that, and I know that you know that too.

Somehow we're in a place, culturally, where what's not real needs to be more real, and also is too real at the same time. But we should all just relax, let what is fake be fake, and deal with reality for real. The problem at the moment isn't that fiction's nuclear weapons aren't real enough... the problem is that Reality's Nuclear Weapons are FAR TOO REAL. And we need to stop loose cannon dictatorships from acquiring them while their people hold a hard line "Anyone who doesn't believe what we believe has to die, God says so" mentality. That mindset got REALLY bad back when the top line military hardware was the Crossbow.

Just to close up, I would like to suggest that the Bible says of Heaven, in Zechariah 8:5, "And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof." Paradise and Perfection has children playing. While we're still here, let's let the children play without burdening them with the horrors that our current Meat World inflicts on us.