Teaching Morality to an AI

[Eipok Kruden]

I was looking at the Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles page on IMDB when I saw this discussion: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0851851/board/thread/125388461 . The OP asked "How would YOU teach morals WITHOUT religion?" I think it's much easier to have this discussion here on the Escapist than on IMDB. I'm also extremely intrigued by this, I want to know what everyone here thinks. I've posted on the discussion, look for eipok_kruden on the last page. If you don't have any ideas as to what to post, I suggest you read through the entire discussion before you post. It'll give you some food for thought. Now, yes, there is stupid on both sides, but there are some very good arguments there. Anyway, I'll be as active as I can in this discussion. 1. No flaming 2. Do your research BEFORE posting 3. Try not to act stupid 4. You may use swearing if absolutely necessary, but don't just spew bile for the sake of spewing bile. I don't like swearing just for the hell of it. If you can avoid swearing entirely, that would be nice. Oh, and if you haven't been following Terminator, you might want to catch up on what's happening. Now for my post:

Now, this is John Henry, not Ellison. I mean sure, you could get JH to believe in God and religion for a little bit, but that would be a really really short period of time. He'd want more than your word so you'd have to give him the bible, then he'd pick apart the bible in minutes and never trust you again. He'd deem you psychotic, mentally unstable. That's how machines like JH work. If he finds out that you're acting without any proof, that all you've got is blind faith, he'd deem you unfit for anything. Machines don't understand emotion, they see it as weakness. If I were teaching JH, I'd explain to him how society works. Larger societies are stronger than weaker ones, if you lose members of your society, you become weaker as a whole. In short, I'd simply use Utilitarianism.

 

[Aardvark]

Do unto others.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Do unto others.

That'll lead to the destruction of the human race faster than saying "Humans are evil, kill us all" would.

 

[Elurindel]

"Stop breaking the law, asshole!"

 

[Ares Tyr]

It depends if you lump in spirituality or metaphysical philosophy in with religion.

 

[linchowlewy]

i was taught morals not through religion bt through laws and my parents.

 

[dukethepcdr]

It's impossible to teach morality without religion. If you leave God out of the picture, there is no morality. God and His Son Jesus taught humanity what morals are. Without God, man is a selfish, brutal, rude, cruel, greedy creature. If you don't believe me, just look at all the people running around who say they don't believe in God and who won't take what He teaches us in the Bible seriously. The only thing keeping most of them from committing terrible crimes against other people is fear of getting caught by the police and punished by the judicial system (which is founded on Biblical principles). Without government and without religion, man is little more than a brute.

 

[T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st]

These documents might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

please note how two of those are AMERICAN and I personally would never follow that sort of thing!

back on topic though I would just chuck the law book in front of my kids and say learn these so you DON'T go to jail!

 

[psijac]

make him watch Terminator 1 and 2. Two more so than one but One really sets up the place

of course if you want to undo all that moreal goodie two shoes stuff make him watch Terminator 3

 

[mark_n_b]

If I had to nail an issue that universally causes tension and has an underlying hostility to it on these forums it would have to be the issues surrounding religion. Inevitably someone starts a thread that clearly communicates their stance on the existence of God (inevitably as described in Christianity)example: "really really short period of time" "pick the bible apart in minutes and never trust you again". And suggests that this point of view is inherently superior and thus indirectly challenges anyone of the opposing belief to try and prove that they or their beliefs are not flawed / stupid.

I have seen this happen for both sides.

The OP clearly asks how to teach morality without religion, and yet he begins his response to the question with religion. It was quite a lengthy post to say that the Christian bible is a lie and serves no purpose. But there you have it.

Another one of these posts, a day doesn't go by...

I encourage everybody to let this one go, does it really matter? And it is so impolite, or at least leads to the inevitable "idiocy" (again an observation the Original Poster made, but that didn't stop him from putting it up on our forums)

It leaves me terribly disappointed every time.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

It's impossible to teach morality without religion. If you leave God out of the picture, there is no morality. God and His Son Jesus taught humanity what morals are. Without God, man is a selfish, brutal, rude, cruel, greedy creature. If you don't believe me, just look at all the people running around who say they don't believe in God and who won't take what He teaches us in the Bible seriously. The only thing keeping most of them from committing terrible crimes against other people is fear of getting caught by the police and punished by the judicial system (which is founded on Biblical principles). Without government and without religion, man is little more than a brute.

Are you being sarcastic? Please say yes. . . (no, that isn't a threat)

 

[Eipok Kruden]

These documents might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

please note how two of those are AMERICAN and I personally would never follow that sort of thing!

back on topic though I would just chuck the law book in front of my kids and say learn these so you DON'T go to jail!

I don't think you guys know who John Henry is. He's a machine. He's the early version of skynet. You can't just treat him like a child, he needs facts and proof.

EDIT:Sorry for the double post.

 

[JakalMc]

*Sees religious thread*
...
*Shudders*

I reckon Eggo's got it. Just read the Dec. of Human Rights.

 

[Ares Tyr]

It's impossible to teach morality without religion. If you leave God out of the picture, there is no morality. God and His Son Jesus taught humanity what morals are. Without God, man is a selfish, brutal, rude, cruel, greedy creature. If you don't believe me, just look at all the people running around who say they don't believe in God and who won't take what He teaches us in the Bible seriously. The only thing keeping most of them from committing terrible crimes against other people is fear of getting caught by the police and punished by the judicial system (which is founded on Biblical principles). Without government and without religion, man is little more than a brute.

Actually the people who took the Bible seriously in history ended up burning a whole bunch of people at the stake, implemented tortures the likes of which aren't even seen in Hostel movies on people, and also slaughtered entire cities in the name of God.

And say what you will about my selfish, brutal, greedy ways, sir... but I am not rude.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

Scared straight programs, statistics, do unto others and the re-introduction of the cane.

You have to force the message with this generation, otherwise the message will be ignored.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

*Sees religious thread*
...
*Shudders*

I reckon Eggo's got it. Just read the Dec. of Human Rights.

Yeah, sure, but let's give the Bible credit where credit is due. A lot of the stuff from the Bill of Rights was probably lifted from Biblical passages. Not trying to imply anything by that, just saying.

*Shudders as I realize I've posted in yet ANOTHER stupid religion thread*

Gah, when will it end? Come on, Yahtzee, make fun of a game everybody loves, already!

 

[Frybird]

I would teach him the value of a human life in "Resource" Terms. Not only as a Workforce, but as a possible inspiration for further development of society.

Of course, i'd need to teach him pretty fast how slavery is bad afterwards

 

[Eipok Kruden]

If I had to nail an issue that universally causes tension and has an underlying hostility to it on these forums it would have to be the issues surrounding religion. Inevitably someone starts a thread that clearly communicates their stance on the existence of God (inevitably as described in Christianity)example: "really really short period of time" "pick the bible apart in minutes and never trust you again". And suggests that this point of view is inherently superior and thus indirectly challenges anyone of the opposing belief to try and prove that they or their beliefs are not flawed / stupid.

I have seen this happen for both sides.

The OP clearly asks how to teach morality without religion, and yet he begins his response to the question with religion. It was quite a lengthy post to say that the Christian bible is a lie and serves no purpose. But there you have it.

Another one of these posts, a day doesn't go by...

I encourage everybody to let this one go, does it really matter? And it is so impolite, or at least leads to the inevitable "idiocy" (again an observation the Original Poster made, but that didn't stop him from putting it up on our forums)

It leaves me terribly disappointed every time.

You can't honestly say that everything in the bible is backed up by facts and logic. Faith doesn't matter if you're working with a machine. John Henry would need proof for everything stated in the bible, or else he wouldn't believe that part of the bible. And there isn't proof for everything in the bible, the majority of it requires blind faith.

 

[T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st]

These documents might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

please note how two of those are AMERICAN and I personally would never follow that sort of thing!

back on topic though I would just chuck the law book in front of my kids and say learn these so you DON'T go to jail!

I don't think you guys know who John Henry is. He's a machine. He's the early version of skynet. You can't just treat him like a child, he needs facts and proof.

I was just using my (fictional) kids as an example (also I haven't seen the Sarah whatsit adventures but the time I go and see a cheep knock off of a movie is the day God vomits ice cream and lollies from the sea!)