The appeal of Comics

[FredTheUndead]

I just don't see it. Aesthetically it all looks almost identical to me, the dialogue frequently seems overwrought, and poorly written, and the delivery is melodramatic at best, and cringeworthy at worst. The stories seem to never make sense to me, yet they almost always seem to feature some array of flamboyant dudes, each with their own flavor of poor fashion sense. I suppose my overall attitude can be summed up with one word, namely stale. Then, perhaps I'm being close-minded. If anyone can sway my thoughts to the contrary, I would more then welcome it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Comics are just a medium, no different from any other.

As such, there's an unbelievable amount of utter crap out there, but some stuff that might meet at least some definition of "good".

Your criticism about writing, dialogue, story and so on are valid, but they can apply to everything else just as easily.

Having said that, there might be currently more rubbish writers in comic books than, say, kids cartoons, which would put kids cartoons ahead, I guess.

 

[Dimitriov]

I just don't see it. Aesthetically it all looks almost identical to me, the dialogue frequently seems overwrought, and poorly written, and the delivery is melodramatic at best, and cringeworthy at worst. The stories seem to never make sense to me, yet they almost always seem to feature some array of teenagers, each with their own flavor of angst. I suppose my overall attitude can be summed up with one word, namely stale. Then, perhaps I'm being close-minded. If anyone can sway my thoughts to the contrary, I would more then welcome it.

Quoted from another thread made earlier... did you have to rip him off word for word? And consequently I can't tell if you are being serious or what.

OT: I do actually tend to agree personally. Self contained complete story arcs done well in so called "graphic novels" can be quite good. I tend to be more partial to manga though.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**walks in from the Appeal of Anime thread**

Ah. I see what you did there.

In all seriousness though...
Manga - can be good, if the story is good

standard Western Comics (DC, Marvel, similar) - Ugh. I hate 50+ year continuities. Whatever they were writing in the 50s doesn't fit with what they were writing in the 60s, which gets worse in the 70s, takes an interesting turn in the 80s, only to suck in the 90s, and be totally insane and incomprehensible by the time it gets to anywhere near now.

Hand me a Sandman graphic novel by Neil Gaiman, or something else equally well written and self contained.

Also, Captcha: cannot tiorick!
Makes me wonder what tiorick is, and why I cannot...

 

[King of the Sandbox]

You should read comics that don't think they're comics, like The Boys and Walking Dead.

The Boys especially for how they handle superheroes.

 

[theonlyblaze2]

I used to feel the same way. Then I read some stuff by Frank Miller and the Y: The Last Man series. Fixed me right up.

 

[Thaluikhain]

standard Western Comics (DC, Marvel, similar) - Ugh. I hate 50+ year continuities. Whatever they were writing in the 50s doesn't fit with what they were writing in the 60s, which gets worse in the 70s, takes an interesting turn in the 80s, only to suck in the 90s, and be totally insane and incomprehensible by the time it gets to anywhere near now.

And the cross-overs...grrr...have to stop reading and look things up on wiki so I know what the fuck is going on. And every 8 or so issues it'll be the beginning of a multi-part series, the rest being in different series which I won't understand unless I've read the earlier ones.

And the no killing rule. "He killed those cultists! Sure, he had the excuse that they were going to release the virus and destroy eveyr living thing on the planet if he didn't, but still...killing is wrong!" Grrr...and how many times have they cuaght the Joker or whoever only for him to escape next week and murder more people? What stops police snipers from offing him in one of the hundred times they've found him before the heros turn up, anyway? Argh...

 

[FredTheUndead]

lol, just like the guy who didn't like anime.... I must ask again:

Why do you want people to try to sway your feelings on something you don't like?

It's okay not to like everything, be proud of your own preferences! It doesn't make the medium, or you, 'less than' because of your tastes!

**walks in from the Appeal of Anime thread**

I did the same thing!

OT: Is this just some attempt at discussion, just for the sake of discussing a medium people have been known to love? I don't get it.

Why attempt to ask your firm reasonable opinion to be swayed unless you don't feel you have a real opinion?

I guess what bothers me are the OP's who state what they think as absolute, then 'dare' people to disagree... I just don't get it.

There's these things called "satire" and "sarcasm." You should really check em out.

**walks in from the Appeal of Anime thread**

Ah. I see what you did there.

In all seriousness though...
Manga - can be good, if the story is good

standard Western Comics (DC, Marvel, similar) - Ugh. I hate 50+ year continuities. Whatever they were writing in the 50s doesn't fit with what they were writing in the 60s, which gets worse in the 70s, takes an interesting turn in the 80s, only to suck in the 90s, and be totally insane and incomprehensible by the time it gets to anywhere near now.

Hand me a Sandman graphic novel by Neil Gaiman, or something else equally well written and self contained.

Also, Captcha: cannot tiorick!
Makes me wonder what tiorick is, and why I cannot...

I haven't tried any of Gaiman's work. Truthfully I haven't tried very much Western stuff at all. Not so much because DURR JAPAN IS SO SUPERIOR WHY COULDN'T I BE BORN ASIAN AND LIVE IN THE LAND OF ANIME HURR but simply because they weren't as available to me as anime and manga were as a youth. Off the top of my head I've just read some Ultimate Spiderman, V for Vendetta, Watchmen, and Scott Pilgrim. I AM tempted to check out Batman Inc because HOW CAN A SERIES ABOUT MAKING A GLOBAL BATMAN ARMY SUCK? and American Gods though.

 

[FredTheUndead]

standard Western Comics (DC, Marvel, similar) - Ugh. I hate 50+ year continuities. Whatever they were writing in the 50s doesn't fit with what they were writing in the 60s, which gets worse in the 70s, takes an interesting turn in the 80s, only to suck in the 90s, and be totally insane and incomprehensible by the time it gets to anywhere near now.

And the cross-overs...grrr...have to stop reading and look things up on wiki so I know what the fuck is going on. And every 8 or so issues it'll be the beginning of a multi-part series, the rest being in different series which I won't understand unless I've read the earlier ones.

And the no killing rule. "He killed those cultists! Sure, he had the excuse that they were going to release the virus and destroy eveyr living thing on the planet if he didn't, but still...killing is wrong!" Grrr...and how many times have they cuaght the Joker or whoever only for him to escape next week and murder more people? What stops police snipers from offing him in one of the hundred times they've found him before the heros turn up, anyway? Argh...

My understanding was it lived under the "if you kill him you'll be just like him" rule, a rule I've always found somewhat silly and actually somewhat insulting to say, policemen. But then I'm a disgusting child of the 90s who only watched Batman cartoons and movies, never bothering to see the silent films he was based off and the decades of continuity, so what do I know?

 

[Thaluikhain]

My understanding was it lived under the "if you kill him you'll be just like him" rule, a rule I've always found somewhat silly and actually somewhat insulting to say, policemen. But then I'm a disgusting child of the 90s who only watched Batman cartoons and movies, never bothering to see the silent films he was based off and the decades of continuity, so what do I know?

I think it's a legacy from the old days when they didn't try making comics remotely serious, so implications like that weren't ever address.

Alternatively, it's so we appreciate the anti-heroes more. Even if they'll inevitably turn bad.

 

[FredTheUndead]

My understanding was it lived under the "if you kill him you'll be just like him" rule, a rule I've always found somewhat silly and actually somewhat insulting to say, policemen. But then I'm a disgusting child of the 90s who only watched Batman cartoons and movies, never bothering to see the silent films he was based off and the decades of continuity, so what do I know?

I think it's a legacy from the old days when they didn't try making comics remotely serious, so implications like that weren't ever address.

Said old days including such gems as Whitewash Jones.

 

[FredTheUndead]

Comics are wonderful once you stray outside of Marvel and DC territory. And yes sometimes you have to look past the boobage that was used to sell early issues.
Like with Witchblade. Yes when I was 13 I started reading because of said boobage, but I really got into the narrative, and the story of normal person getting super powers is much better than anything I've seen in Marvel.
These days it's very dramatic, the story telling is great, and the art is amazing.
Seriously, check it and The Darkness out. NOW!

No, there is no such thing as a Manga style Witchblade, stop making stuff up .

Speaking just as a fan of Japanese crap I can concur the Witchblade anime is terrible.

 

[FredTheUndead]

Speaking just as a fan of Japanese crap I can concur the Witchblade anime is terrible.

Thank you. I love you and now we can be married, have seventy children, move to America and work in big American factory and get old, and fat, and go off on tangents sort of like this one but it's not a tangent because it has a point!

Anyway, Comics have always been hit and miss in America. Just look for the ones that don't have multiple artists, writers, and story lines.

I was just mocking this thread:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.273971-The-appeal-of-Anime?page=1
I have no inherent distaste for anything, regardless of where it came from. Hell, I'm currently awaiting the weekly subtitle for a goddamn French Saturday morning cartoon to be finished.

 

[Lilani]

It's all a matter of personal taste. Some people like spinach, some don't. Some people like comics, some don't. What's revolting to you might be the greatest thing in the world to someone else.

So if you don't like comics, that's just fine. There's no need for you to force yourself to like them just to say that you do. If you don't like comics, you don't like comics. Would you be any happier if you started forcing yourself to eat a can of spinach every day, just for the sake of saying you do it?

 

[WolfThomas]

And the no killing rule. "He killed those cultists! Sure, he had the excuse that they were going to release the virus and destroy eveyr living thing on the planet if he didn't, but still...killing is wrong!" Grrr...and how many times have they cuaght the Joker or whoever only for him to escape next week and murder more people? What stops police snipers from offing him in one of the hundred times they've found him before the heros turn up, anyway? Argh...

I think it comes from the fact, unlike a film or a book, the high volume of comics requires characters to be used again and again rather than be killed off. If you killed the Joker you would lose sales. Its better than constantly resurrecting people.

Try reading Punisher MAX by Ennis, the Punisher kills pretty much every criminal he comes across and they start running of criminals.

Seriously, check it and The Darkness out. NOW!

Really? Aside from Ennis' run I found the first two volumes pretty terrible.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And the no killing rule. "He killed those cultists! Sure, he had the excuse that they were going to release the virus and destroy eveyr living thing on the planet if he didn't, but still...killing is wrong!" Grrr...and how many times have they cuaght the Joker or whoever only for him to escape next week and murder more people? What stops police snipers from offing him in one of the hundred times they've found him before the heros turn up, anyway? Argh...

I think it comes from the fact, unlike a film or a book, the high volume of comics requires character to be used again and again rather than be killed off. If you killed the Joker you would lose sales. It better than constantly resurrecting people.

Oh, yes, absolutely, they hardly dare kill anyone off. But then the character becomes terribly overused and increasingly a burden to suspension of disbelief.

 

[Lateinos]

I just don't see it. Aesthetically it all looks almost identical to me, the dialogue frequently seems overwrought, and poorly written, and the delivery is melodramatic at best, and cringeworthy at worst. The stories seem to never make sense to me, yet they almost always seem to feature some array of flamboyant dudes, each with their own flavor of poor fashion sense. I suppose my overall attitude can be summed up with one word, namely stale. Then, perhaps I'm being close-minded. If anyone can sway my thoughts to the contrary, I would more then welcome it.

So, are you mad because of the other thread, or is this all part of some huge troll conspiracy?