The coming american presidential election

[Same River New Water]

Moderates like me were completely turned off by the vitriol coming from the Democratic party which far outweighed anything negative coming from the Republicans

Democrats: "Bush started an unjust, illegal war which has led to thousands of American deaths and tens of thousands of civilian deaths and which made most of the world hate America!"

Republicans: "Kerry changes his mind sometimes! ... Look, wolves!"

Not all negative campaigns are created equal.

 

[Dectilon]

"I think you have a pretty skewed view of what the MCA does, which is to establish what is a lawful, and unlawful enemy combatant. I guess if by "supporting the economy" you mean "actively fighting american forces in a war theatre while under conditions which would make you an unlawful combatant as set forth by the MCA" then yes, you are correct. your statement other than that is pure nonsense. If you think you're gonna be scooped up by the secret service while cruising the mall of america for a tee shirt, you should probablly go grab a foil hat real fast."

I think you're missing the point, which is that they have the authority to do it. That's enough. I really think it's some kind of national empathy issue that makes so many Americans say things like "torture is okay in certain situations". It's as if people think they will decide what situations it will be when the time comes. All these invented phrases, such as "illegal combatants", "criminal elements" and the like is just a way to dehumanize prisoners so the public won't feel bad when terrible things are done to them. If you want to talk about stepping stones I'd say making torture, kidnapping and other dispicable atcs legal is a good stepping-stone on the way to fascism.

As for the candidates, the primary elections seems to be a process where the most insane candidate is picked from the Republican side while the person who is willing to act the most insane is picked from the Democratic side. This time, Ron Paul doesn't seem to be winning for the republicans nor Hillary Clinton for the Democrats so I guess it's not a perfect model. Then again, this election is a bit out of the ordinary.

Being a bit of pessimist when it comes to the US of A I'm predicting McCain as the final winner. Sure, at first Obama (whom I believe will win the primary) will be in the lead in the polls because people are angry at Bush and his misdemeanors, but eventually they will wake up from the daze and remember that their fear of actually living what they learn (that being the new testament. Turning the other cheek for example, or helping the poor) is far greater and go with the greater of two evils.

 

[renahzor]

I see the point, and im sure in the coming year or so we'll see an ammendment to the act to grant american constitutional rights to all captured people. It takes an act of congress, and right now such a change would be a bit unpopular, and with the elections coming up noone is going to be committing political suicide on that front for a while anyway, atleast by my estimation. Regardless, if he feels he can never come to america for fear of being kidnapped and held indefinately, thats his perrogative. The empathy thing ill leave alone because I have too many thoughts on that issue, which wont really be relvant.

On the election side, I dont think McCain will make it out of the primaries. Even after yesterday, I think Obama will come out with the nomination. On the republican side its impossile to tell right now, but I think it will be hard to beat the democrats this year regardless of who gets the nomination. we'll see though, its still very early on so anything can happen.

 

[Dectilon]

Hmm... I guess, as a pessimist maybe I should've picked Romney or Paul as the victor instead : P

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

That's kind of a biased presentation of how the negative campaigning worked in the last election.

Both parties had articulate arguments against one another, and also had the fringe elements that alienated voters. The Democrats though didn't seem to use the subtly needed and really didn't keep their fringe from spilling over and turning off mainstream voters. Protesters screaming about blood and oil doesn't win anyone over; it just makes people reach for the mute button, while things like the wolf ad were subtle but with the same message and might make some people sway. In their hatred for Bush they seemed to forget tact.

What it mostly came down to though was that most people who were voting for Bush were doing just that-voting for Bush. While many (if not most) people who were voting for Kerry were not voting so much for him as they were voting against Bush.

Most of the hardcore people you would see on Tv that supported Bush seemed to be more insanely for Bush as if a vote for him would make Saint Peter give you a free pass than they were in a psychotic rage about Kerry. Many of Kerry's supporters on the other hand seemed to have just come off the plane from crazy town that featured a 5 hour in flight movie about how Bush eats babies and kicks puppies, and seemed largely indifferent in their actual support for Kerry.

The like of one candidate is often a stronger motivator than the dislike of another, and a lot of people won't go out on a rainy or snowy day just to vote against someone. The hardcore members of a party will surely come out to vote against the person they don't like, but the independents typically don't respond as well, and extensive negativity turns people off.

This is the main reason Clinton has a chance in the general election if she's nominated. The Republicans loathe her, but most of their own candidates are very generic characters. Their base will come out and vote for them, but if all they have is to be against Clinton it likely will not be enough. The bases will be decided but if all the Republicans have is that she's the Devil, that won't be enough. If they get a personality who is actually presentable, they stand a much better chance, but most people find the current field rather boring and there's some thought that the Republican party might even go to convention without a clear nominee.

It would be very interesting though if 2008 was 2004 in reverse, with Republicans being the party with the hate and generic character inadvertently ceding the election. But time will tell...

 

[codespace]

Democrats will take this year's election. I'm hoping for Obama, expecting Clinton. I wouldn't mind seeing an Obama/Clinton ticket on the final ballot.

 

[Dectilon]

"The Republicans loathe her, but most of their own candidates are very generic characters."

Herein lies one of my main gripes about presidential elections in general (instead of party elections): it's to a large extent about the personality of the candidate, and not about what he/she represents.

Many of Obama's voters (for example) were asked why they chose to vote for him, and they responded with "I like him" or "He seems like a decent guy" etc etc.

I do agree with much of what you said though. Just being anti won't cut it. It does seem to be an integrate part of the political system however, which is sad. I hear the word "flip-flop" way too much.

 

[Girlysprite]

If I'd live in America, I'd also look at the list oif sponsors of the candidate, the party, and what they worked for in the past. Some issues have been screwed over/with in the past because of loyalties and strings like this. (thats why I am against donations for campaigning)

 

[J-Val]

Ok, next topic: Who Do You Think Will Win The Russian Presidential Election?

I vote for Zombie Lenin.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5106848950179943878&q=The+Simpsons+Soviet+Union&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
Peace! Brains! Land!

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

Girlysprite, this website may interest you.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=N07

It isn't as comprehensive as it could be, but it gives you a decent idea of who major industries are supporting. Some are fairly evenly distributed (Pharmaceuticals for example have been spreading their money around) while Gambling and Lobbyists are pretty heavily supporting Clinton and Giuliani, respectively.

Interesting information, not quite what you would want, but it gives you an idea of who will be giving a wink and a nudge to whoever is elected when bills come up.

 

[Girlysprite]

Very interesting link, thanks Growler

 

[Jindrak]

I have a friend working on the Obama campaign, and it is really between him and John Edwards. I supported Edwards during the last election, so that's more likely to happen again.

If Huckabee wins I'm gone. What are the Universities like in Canada?

 

[Agent Larkin]

Obama Wins. I'm saying no more.

 

[mdk31]

Obama Wins. I'm saying no more.

Enjoying your thread necro spree?

 

[Agent Larkin]

Obama Wins. I'm saying no more.

Enjoying your thread necro spree?

Yeah actually i am. It is quite enjoyable to plunge back in time and see peoples comments.

 

[mdk31]

Obama Wins. I'm saying no more.

Enjoying your thread necro spree?

Yeah actually i am. It is quite enjoyable to plunge back in time and see peoples comments.

Seeing 'em is all well and good, but you really don't need to bring obsolete topics back to the front page.

 

[Agent Larkin]

Obama Wins. I'm saying no more.

Enjoying your thread necro spree?

Yeah actually i am. It is quite enjoyable to plunge back in time and see peoples comments.

Seeing 'em is all well and good, but you really don't need to bring obsolete topics back to the front page.

Some of them i do. Not this one granted but the Heist movie one i just brought back definitly deserves it.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Any thought on who you would want as president?

DENNIS HAYSBERT!

General Patton.