The Doctor - Good or evil?

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thejboy88

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For the longest time I have been a huge fan of Doctor Who. The stories of an alien travelling through time and space with human companions having adventures has been an integral part of both my childhood and my current viewing habits.

Since the show revived in 2005 I have been watching it religiously and there has not bee a single thing about it that I?ve managed to find fault it.

However, recently there have been a few elements coming to the foreground of the series that has actually got me thinking about an important question:

?Is the Doctor really a good guy??

Now my first instinct was to rise and defend him on this count. He?s the protagonist. He?s saved humankind and the Earth many times over, all without ever taking thanks for it. Hell, he even saved the whole universe a couple of times.

But then the darker parts of his nature began to swell in my mind. He may have done some laudable things in the show, but he?s also done some very questionable stuff too.

Please be warned that this will contain spoilers. Those who have not watched the series but wish to, please look away.

The recent episode ?A good man goes to war? shows the latest set of bad guys going to incredible lengths to create a weapon specifically designed to bring the Doctor down. As River Song puts it:

?You make them so afraid. When you began all those years ago, going out amongst the stars, did you ever think you would become this? The man who could turn an army around at the mention of his name? Doctor? The word for healer and wise man throughout the universe. We get that word from you, you know. If you carry on as you have, what might that word come to mean??

Now many die-hard fans of the Doctor, like myself will be quick to defend his reputation at this point. After all, the Doctor is on the side of good. But let?s remember, good is a point of view. It?s entirely subjective. In wars, both sides will always think that they are good and that their enemies are evil.

And River Song is right. His reputation is enough to scare people. The things he?s done since the series began would make anyone frightened of him, including myself. He?s wiped out entire races of aliens, including his own people, the Time Lords. Races said to be the most powerful in the universe he has destroyed or brought to the brink of extinction.

His dark reputation has been used on a number of occasions when Steven Moffat has been at the wheel. In Matt Smith?s introduction in ?The eleventh hour? it was used to scare away a fleet of aliens who?d come to capture an escaped prisoner. But when they find out who it is whose been trying to capture him as well, they turn tail and run. And at the end of that season, when all the Doctors enemies gathered to bring him down, he staved them all off by reminding them of who there were up against. Now of course you can argue that in that episode it was all an act by his enemies. But the fact that the Doctor fell into that trap mean that he himself would expect them to run from him. He knows what he?s done and he knows that it would be enough to make others cower from him.

It really does paint a clear picture of the interpretation of his character that Steven Moffat has regarding the Doctor. When Russell T Davis had the reigns of the series, the Doctor was portrayed as an old man in a young man?s body, filled with the guilt over his actions and crippled by loneliness over being the last of his kind.

But whenever Steven Moffat has written for the character, especially since becoming director in 2010, this interpretation has changed to be a far darker and more intimidating character. A man who has had such a profound impact on the universe and the people within it that his name, his reputation and the legends that have sprung up about him, are enough to make him seem like the devil in some people?s eyes. So clear is this that even the people he gathers as allies are intimidated and scared by him on a number of occasions.

Take for example Moffat?s two-part episode ?Human nature/The family of blood?. At the end of those episodes the Doctor allows his enemies to live but at a terrible cost. We see in that moment of the episode just how dark and terrifying this guy can get. He let them live, yes. But in doing so he?s made their lives a living hell. Forcibly making them live forever in different and terrifying ways that would probably make any of us prefer death.

Hell, even in Davis? first season finale, we see the Doctor actively trying to kill his enemies by wiping out the population of Earth as well. Now of course he argues his position and it seemed reasonable at the time given the available options, but still the fact that such a notion would even come to mind for him is a spine-chilling thought.

Now of course the Doctor himself is well aware of his power and his ability and, as show in the show, would never let go for a moment. However, we have seen times when this has not been the case. In ?The waters of Mars?, one of David Tennant?s final episodes as the Doctor, we see him actively trying to re-write history to save people?s lives. Now this may sound like a good thing but as we see by the end, doing so reveals a side to the Doctor that we rarely see. Arrogance. A belief in his abilities so great that he feels invincible. And it terrified me.

?Is there nothing you can?t do??

?Not anymore.?

So in conclusion, yes he fights for what we believe to be good. He?s saved many people?s lives. He?s saved the whole universe on a number of occasions at the risk to his own life. But despite this there is a dark side to this character that few others could have. A side to him that makes this ?protagonist? walk a very fine line. A line that I hope very much he never crosses.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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i think the main problem for the doctor is that he never really trys to defend himself in the media. He just does incredible world changing things and vanishes. thats what i thought about his dark reputation. Hes taken down governments and ended races like you say, but he never, or at least rarely, turns around and tells everyone(and by that i mean the media really) why he did this.

I mean we hear news stories all the time without ever getting the real entire picture and make judgements off it. Imagine a man blew up a building that was secretly full of killer aliens disguised as orphans or something. We wouldnt hear about the aliens part, and we would hate that man.

so of course people would end up fearing him after the media builds this legend of a terrible man who can end a world on a whim.
 

monkey jesus

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First of all bless you for making this thread.

Right now lets get into it.

I don't see the Doctor as evil but I see his name being the perfect representation of what he is, he keeps all of time and space in balance, healthy if you will. Sometimes he has to cut away the infected parts and sometimes he makes the decisions that have to be made as hard as they may be.

I love the fact that they have made this into an arc instead of just the Doctor flying around writing wrongs and settling everything in one or two episodes. You can see how the weight of his responsibilities is changing him. It's really exciting.
 

Phishfood

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I must admit he has become darker lately.

contrast vampires in vennice (no, don't kill yourself!)

with the silent (haw haw, I just kicked your asses and made humanity try and wipe you out)

Before this season, I would out and out say good guy, violence is his last resort. Lately....not so much.
 

HydraMoon

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May 3, 2011
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I'd like to think the Doctor himself would say, 'It's complicated'.

I think he's a mishmash, like most people.
 

Polarity27

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I've never wanted to embed a video this badly before, I hope this works!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ly-Vhw1fevM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Someone on TWOP said something that I've thought incredibly helpful when it comes to the Doctor: he's not always nice, he's not always right, but he's always Good. From the human POV, anyway. I like that, though, decoupling those concepts from each other. He acts with humanity's best interest at heart, but he's also the Oncoming Storm. You can't take either of those things away from the other and still understand him.
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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Now first off, let's get one thing out of the way: The Doctor has always been uncompromising, ruthless and quite brutal towards threats to the human race. He steered a fleet of Ice Warriors into the sun in "The Seeds of Death", he sentenced Sutekh to death by eternal time corridor in "Pyramids of Mars", he poisoned people in "Vengeance on Varos", he boiled the Krillitanes in their own oil in "School Reunion", and while he hasn't wiped the Cybermen or the Daleks off the face of the universe, it hasn't been for lack of trying. (Pretty much every incarnation has wiped out a Dalek army or three.) The Doctor is about as merciful as he needs to be.
Polarity27 said:
I've never wanted to embed a video this badly before, I hope this works!

Someone on TWOP said something that I've thought incredibly helpful when it comes to the Doctor: he's not always nice, he's not always right, but he's always Good. From the human POV, anyway. I like that, though, decoupling those concepts from each other. He acts with humanity's best interest at heart, but he's also the Oncoming Storm. You can't take either of those things away from the other and still understand him.
Fixed it for you.
 

Polarity27

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WolfThomas said:
Polarity27 said:
I've never wanted to embed a video this badly before, I hope this works!

Someone on TWOP said something that I've thought incredibly helpful when it comes to the Doctor: he's not always nice, he's not always right, but he's always Good. From the human POV, anyway. I like that, though, decoupling those concepts from each other. He acts with humanity's best interest at heart, but he's also the Oncoming Storm. You can't take either of those things away from the other and still understand him.
Fixed it for you.
/bow

Thank you! I tried fixing it but my internet hung.

Anyway... most brilliant fanvid I ever saw, that one. It's just Ten, but shows the full range of him from helpful to Bloody. Fucking. Terrifying.
 

Zorg Machine

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Phishfood said:
I must admit he has become darker lately.

contrast vampires in vennice (no, don't kill yourself!)

with the silent (haw haw, I just kicked your asses and made humanity try and wipe you out)

Before this season, I would out and out say good guy, violence is his last resort. Lately....not so much.
the difference was that the fish things were the last of their kind and they were trying to save their race (and he could have helped them) whereas the silent were nowhere near extinct and were actively enslaving the human population.

fish people=desperate
silent=evil
 

Gustavo S. Buschle

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I don't watch it much, but I think it's one of the greatest representations of what happens when a person lives too long or has too much power.
 

Phishfood

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Zorg Machine said:
Phishfood said:
I must admit he has become darker lately.

contrast vampires in vennice (no, don't kill yourself!)

with the silent (haw haw, I just kicked your asses and made humanity try and wipe you out)

Before this season, I would out and out say good guy, violence is his last resort. Lately....not so much.
the difference was that the fish things were the last of their kind and they were trying to save their race (and he could have helped them) whereas the silent were nowhere near extinct and were actively enslaving the human population.

fish people=desperate
silent=evil
True. Ok then, less pleased with this comparison but still...

"Bad Guys" from the first episode: "Basically, run".
The silent: "I just kicked your ass".

Thing is in the first ep they were just threatening a good clean death not enslaving humans. Although, I'm not entirely sure what The Silent were up to. They were also a damn sight more tricky to deal with.

It just didn't feel very..."Doctory" which seems to be the point. A better example would maybe be pompeii. He killed everyone, sure, but he HATED doing it.
 

EradiusLore

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thejboy88 said:
I think the thing they try and portray is that the doctor is not 'good' or 'evil' but instead a man as flawed as any human (granted he is way smarter than most). he follows his heart as much as his head, just like any of us.
 

MrRetroSpectacles

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Think of it in terms of Batman-The Dark Knight. He does what he can to save the majority, even if it causes the death or destruction of something/someone else. He always offers a way out for the villains if he can, running away from the Family of Blood to stop him from punishing them was a bold enough statement.

Unfortunately, doing what it takes can make you into the bad guy, so the truth of your heroics go un-recognised, like a silent protector, or "Dark Knight".

Also bad guys don't hug anywhere near as much as he does. (Or wear fezzes, bowties...)
 

Pedro The Hutt

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TheDarkEricDraven said:
*Cough*TheValeyard*cough*TheDreamLord*cough*
But yeah, just look at that prick 10 and contrast him to 11, 8, or 5. It all depends on which Doctor your talking about. They are diffrent people.
Not sure how you can call Ten a prick while in the same breath saying that Eleven isn't. Eleven has ~happily~ orchestrated genocide on the Silence, candidly destroyed a fully manned space station just to prove a point, and generally seems to swagger about with reckless abandon and any semblance of a moral compass. Frankly I'm surprised he's survived as long as he has.
 

McPulse

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Has anyone brought up

"THE TIMELORD VICTORIOUS"

yet?

I mean, that's where he said "I am bad guy now. Deal with it."
 

thejboy88

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monkey jesus said:
First of all bless you for making this thread.

Right now lets get into it.

I don't see the Doctor as evil but I see his name being the perfect representation of what he is, he keeps all of time and space in balance, healthy if you will. Sometimes he has to cut away the infected parts and sometimes he makes the decisions that have to be made as hard as they may be.

I love the fact that they have made this into an arc instead of just the Doctor flying around writing wrongs and settling everything in one or two episodes. You can see how the weight of his responsibilities is changing him. It's really exciting.
That you for your comment.

Don't really think I need to be blessed for it though.
 

Togs

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Meh its not that simple, thats what Ive always loved about Doctor Who- on the surface you have a good family show but underneath you've a got a swampy mire of grey on gray morality.
The Doctor saves lives, and has saved millions and millions of them, but he's also killed whole species in the process(including his own).
He's neither good nor evil but like everyone else is capable of both- its just he has the power to make those acts that much more impactful.
Oh and another element to it is alot of the time the Doctor acts very pragmatically- to him the ends justify the means, if you dont share that view than the Doctor is gonna come across very differently to those who do.

EDIT= On the whole I think he flies the flag for the white team, he tries to alleviate suffering where he finds it, but often just redistributes it.