The origin of Christmas

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Robert Roberge

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So I have heard a lot of "christans stole christams from the pagans" arguement, so i did a little searching and found this. This one seems to make most sense to me as it actually explains how it may have been stolen. soooo what does everyone else think? Im curious as to everyones thoughts on the subject.


Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ."

The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects.
Source(AKA copy and pasted from): http://www.essortment.com/christmas-pagan-origins-42543.html
 

Thaluikhain

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"Stolen"? Cultures are allowed to be influenced by others.

If you've got an existing celebration, it makes more sense to retrofit it, rather than replace it and build a new one.

Alternavitely, if you believe that Christ is the source of all that is good and holy, and people have a good and holy thing, obviously Christ must be behind it really, even if they don't know it. That sort of logical worked on classical philosophy, obviously they'd gotten or discovered some of the holy wisdom, but got it a tad garbled until the Christians sorted it out...it wasn't invalid, just needed a bit of tweaking.
 

Zen Toombs

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thaluikhain said:
Alternavitely, if you believe that Christ is the source of all that is good and holy, and people have a good and holy thing, obviously Christ must be behind it really, even if they don't know it. That sort of logical worked on classical philosophy, obviously they'd gotten or discovered some of the holy wisdom, but got it a tad garbled until the Christians sorted it out...it wasn't invalid, just needed a bit of tweaking.
Interesting thoughts [thalulkhain]. That's a cool way of looking at it.

Robert Roberge said:
-snippity snip-
And that's why I'm one of them hippies that celebrates Yule. :p

[sub]Well that's not my reason, but it's funnier that way. Work with me![/sub]
 

SonicWaffle

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Robert Roberge said:
soooo what does everyone else think? Im curious as to everyones thoughts on the subject.
I think that it doesn't really matter. Religions tend to copy/paste elements from earlier religions - hence why there are often similar myths and legends, or characters who seem remarkably similar - but Christmas itself is pretty much a secular holiday.

That's as it should be. It's about giving people a chance to unwind a bit, see their family, go out and get pissed, get some time off work and eat good food they'll feel guilty about later. Something everyone needs. Christmas as it is now is a social construction that simply coincides with a religious festival, in my opinion. Christians can celebrate it as a holy day, everyone else can celebrate it as a day off work to watch crap telly and get drunk. Everyone wins!

Besides, as religious festivals go, I've never understood why the birth of Jesus was even important. Conception? Miraculous. Resurrection? Miraculous. Birth? Not actually that miraculous. Everyone's done that.
 

SonicWaffle

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thaluikhain said:
Alternavitely, if you believe that Christ is the source of all that is good and holy, and people have a good and holy thing, obviously Christ must be behind it really, even if they don't know it. That sort of logical worked on classical philosophy, obviously they'd gotten or discovered some of the holy wisdom, but got it a tad garbled until the Christians sorted it out...it wasn't invalid, just needed a bit of tweaking.
I'm not a fan of that kind of thinking. It's kinda like the Mormons, posthumously converting anyone they want to claim so they can say "Mormonism is clearly the best! Gandhi, Shakespeare and Notorious BIG are all in Mormon heaven, why not join them?"

It also seems terribly, terribly patronising. "Oh, so you've worked and studied and sacraficed for years and you've finally discovered a cure for AIDS? Yeah, that was Jesus. Not you, you're a filthy heathen, but he's allowing you to do his work so that we can come in later and improve it because we're better than you"
 

Thaluikhain

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SonicWaffle said:
thaluikhain said:
Alternavitely, if you believe that Christ is the source of all that is good and holy, and people have a good and holy thing, obviously Christ must be behind it really, even if they don't know it. That sort of logical worked on classical philosophy, obviously they'd gotten or discovered some of the holy wisdom, but got it a tad garbled until the Christians sorted it out...it wasn't invalid, just needed a bit of tweaking.
I'm not a fan of that kind of thinking. It's kinda like the Mormons, posthumously converting anyone they want to claim so they can say "Mormonism is clearly the best! Gandhi, Shakespeare and Notorious BIG are all in Mormon heaven, why not join them?"

It also seems terribly, terribly patronising. "Oh, so you've worked and studied and sacraficed for years and you've finally discovered a cure for AIDS? Yeah, that was Jesus. Not you, you're a filthy heathen, but he's allowing you to do his work so that we can come in later and improve it because we're better than you"
Oh, I agree...saying "Thank god nobody was killed in the fire" and excluding any mention of the firefighters and so on really pisses me off.

But it is the logical consequence of believing your One True God is responsible for all the good in the world.
 

SonicWaffle

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thaluikhain said:
Oh, I agree...saying "Thank god nobody was killed in the fire" and excluding any mention of the firefighters and so on really pisses me off.
Well, it's all just an extension of God, I suppose. The firefighters saved people because God inspired them or helped them or whatever. Of course, if they fail to save someone, logically that must have been Gods decision too.

thaluikhain said:
But it is the logical consequence of believing your One True God is responsible for all the good in the world.
Reminds me of something Terry Pratchett wrote, wondering why it was only a miracle if it was nice. Just because some freak occurence caused someone to die or get crippled doesn't mean it isn't still miraculous.

That's the major problem with believing all good comes from God, of course - if he's got such minute control over good things, either he has the same degree of control over all the bad things that happen (making him capricious and cruel) or someone else controls all the bad things, and for that to be true they'd have to have equal power to God.
 

Thaluikhain

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SonicWaffle said:
thaluikhain said:
Oh, I agree...saying "Thank god nobody was killed in the fire" and excluding any mention of the firefighters and so on really pisses me off.
Well, it's all just an extension of God, I suppose. The firefighters saved people because God inspired them or helped them or whatever. Of course, if they fail to save someone, logically that must have been Gods decision too.
It's not for us to question His great plan etc etc.

SonicWaffle said:
Reminds me of something Terry Pratchett wrote, wondering why it was only a miracle if it was nice. Just because some freak occurence caused someone to die or get crippled doesn't mean it isn't still miraculous.

That's the major problem with believing all good comes from God, of course - if he's got such minute control over good things, either he has the same degree of control over all the bad things that happen (making him capricious and cruel) or someone else controls all the bad things, and for that to be true they'd have to have equal power to God.
Ah, but that's why you need a devil figure. Or God is just testing people's faith or something.
 

Atrocious Joystick

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And that's why I'm one of them hippies that celebrates Yule. :p
You do realize that Yule basically equals christmas? Unless you celebrate some sort of ancient version of the form which really doesn't make you better than Christians, it just makes you insane because you can't really argue that it's because of tradition.

I'm betting the reason we celebrate any sort of midwinter feast is because shit is cold and dark and nothing grows and everything is all around shitty and freezing. So it's good to have something in the middle of all that crap in which you eat lots of food, stay inside a warm house, drink warm mulled wine and just generally enjoy themselves in the middle of mother earth's bitchiest season.

And then bring in a tree because you want the gods to make things grow or put up a crib in the honor of the baby Jesus or whatever. That's not the reason you celebrate. Christianity didn't steal anything.
 

Ulquiorra4sama

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I did some reading up recently and it brought me to believe that it was the saint Nicolas (i think that's what his name was) who was the source of the Santa Claus myth which makes the basis for a lot the traditions that come with Christmas. The whole saint business then made me think that it would be natural for Christmas to be a Christian holiday (that and the name of it all)

But i'm not entirely sure what it is we celebrate here. We call it "jul" in Norway which sounds exacly like "Yule", but we always translate it to Christmas when we learn english in school...

Huh, i'll have to look into that sometime.
 

Dastardly

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Robert Roberge said:
So I have heard a lot of "christans stole christams from the pagans" arguement, so i did a little searching and found this. This one seems to make most sense to me as it actually explains how it may have been stolen. soooo what does everyone else think? Im curious as to everyones thoughts on the subject.
As one of the common "indictments" against Christianity, this is one of the weakest and most tired. Behind any major religion, you have two forces at work -- Faith and Culture.

For instance, I'm sure you know quite a few Cultural Catholics (my family is full of them) -- they keep the traditions, but are kinda fuzzy on the beliefs themselves. The Culture of a religion is often separate from the Faith. (This also explains why a lot of older religions try to mandate the culture through the Faith, to keep them intertwined.)

The Faith says "Jesus was born to fulfill Old Testament prophecy and provide mankind a direct path to redemption, as opposed to symbolic animal sacrifice. His entrance into the world started that process, so we're going to celebrate it."

The Culture of the time said (indirectly), "We're new to this, and we've already got all of these festivals and stuff. If you ask us to change everything all at once, we're not going to be on board."

To which the Faith responded, "That's fine. We'll put the celebration on one of your existing festivals. We know that it's highly unlikely Jesus was born during the winter, because the shepherds wouldn't have been out in the fields at night, lest they freeze to death. But the date of it isn't what matters, it's the significance of the event."

The Culture further responded, "Cool. We're keeping the trees, though. We like them."

______

In the end, why do we have to use words like "stolen?" What about all of the folks the celebrate Christmas, but are neither Christian nor Pagan? Are they "stealing Christmas" from others? Or are they simply appropriating an existing holiday for their own personal celebrations and merriment?