The state of MMORPGs in today's gaming world?

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Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Games like Everquest 2, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, DC Universe Online, Star Wars The Old Republic, Neverwinter, Final Fantasy XIV, Elder Scrolls Online, and of course World of Warcraft.

So what do you guys think of the state of MMORPGs right now and why are they not popular anymore? Especially considering these games were made to be supported long term.

I mean even fuckin Ultima Online is still active.

So how are these games not as popular, and in some cases no good anymore, and I am asking for examples other then WOW please even though I mentioned it, but I am hoping for people here who has played games like Everquest 2, DC Universe Online, LOTRO, and SWTOR.

Like was the MMORPG genre from its inception doomed to fail?
 

meiam

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Split userbase, there used to be very few mmo, so every one had a large share of the total number of player interested in mmo. But more and more mmo were made, so even if the number of mmo player increase they were split amongst many different one. Mmo main attraction is the sense of community but when every community is small this aspect get lost. The genre is not gonna die, but without some new dominant mmo, it'll never be as strong as when WoW dominated the genre.

There's also plenty of other small problem that add up to quite a lot. The over reliance on skinner box, it's good for short term profit, but it doesn't work long term. You just burn your player so fast. A general shift toward theme park style mmo, where the player have little ability to influence the world and are more or less in for the ride, this only work when content is created very quickly.

There are a lot more alternative for group online content these days, fortnite, moba, warframe, survival game, all of these have some overlap with the mmo playerbase and take there share of player.

It's hard to justify subscription when F2P alternative exist, but it's hard to make a compelling long term experience in a F2P game, where you need to funnel player toward spending money to progress or get the cool stuff.

MMO also have an insanely long development time (I'm still waiting for crownfall and that's being in development for like 4 years now), this means they can't really react to trend quickly enough to ride them, you end up with mmo coming out of the gate feeling dated already.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Meiam said:
Split userbase, there used to be very few mmo, so every one had a large share of the total number of player interested in mmo. But more and more mmo were made, so even if the number of mmo player increase they were split amongst many different one. Mmo main attraction is the sense of community but when every community is small this aspect get lost. The genre is not gonna die, but without some new dominant mmo, it'll never be as strong as when WoW dominated the genre.

There's also plenty of other small problem that add up to quite a lot. The over reliance on skinner box, it's good for short term profit, but it doesn't work long term. You just burn your player so fast. A general shift toward theme park style mmo, where the player have little ability to influence the world and are more or less in for the ride, this only work when content is created very quickly.

There are a lot more alternative for group online content these days, fortnite, moba, warframe, survival game, all of these have some overlap with the mmo playerbase and take there share of player.

It's hard to justify subscription when F2P alternative exist, but it's hard to make a compelling long term experience in a F2P game, where you need to funnel player toward spending money to progress or get the cool stuff.

MMO also have an insanely long development time (I'm still waiting for crownfall and that's being in development for like 4 years now), this means they can't really react to trend quickly enough to ride them, you end up with mmo coming out of the gate feeling dated already.
I also wonder why is it hard to make an MMORPG that is purely "Buy once and play anytime you want" type of service these days?

Also I have said it before but the reason I envy MMORPGs as a single player person is the worlds and settings and sheer amount of charcater creation content they have. I mean DC Universe Online, why isn't there any proper Single Player Equivilant of it?

And I wanna play an Epic RPG in the Conan universe, or Everquest universe, or especially the SWTOR universe (SWTOR is different from KOTOR by hundreds of years)
 

Hawki

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MMOs aren't my thing, but if I had to guess:

-The industry has always had its periods of 'follow the leader.' WoW came out, and while not the first, a lot of MMOs tried to get their share of the pie. Quite a few of them didn't succeed. Then, MMOs were no longer the next big thing.

-People have more choice than ever nowadays when it comes to games. MMOs (part of the reason I'm adverse to them) kinda dictate that you put all your attention in the one game. These choices include online connectivity.

-In recent times, we've seen a few "shared world games" that aren't quite MMOs in the traditional sense, but fill similar niches - Destiny, Division, Sea of Thieves, Fallout 76, etc. Similarly, we've experienced MMO elements being incorporated into games that aren't MMOs traditionally (Torchlight Frontiers, Path of Exile, Diablo Immortal, etc.), but have social elements. Like a lot of genres, elements of MMOs have been incorporated into other genres.

I doubt MMOs are going anywhere, but their time of dominance has gone. After the MMO craze, we had the MMS craze, the MOBA craze, the hero shooter craze, and right now we're approaching the end of the battle royale craze. Perhaps worth noting that apart from MMS, all of these genres are inherently social/multiplayer-based.
 

meiam

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Samtemdo8 said:
I also wonder why is it hard to make an MMORPG that is purely "Buy once and play anytime you want" type of service these days?

Also I have said it before but the reason I envy MMORPGs as a single player person is the worlds and settings and sheer amount of charcater creation content they have. I mean DC Universe Online, why isn't there any proper Single Player Equivilant of it?

And I wanna play an Epic RPG in the Conan universe, or Everquest universe, or especially the SWTOR universe (SWTOR is different from KOTOR by hundreds of years)
Well server aren't cheap, hosting a giant world is a lot harder than small match.

Another reason why mmo are declining is because very large "living" world are becoming much more common in single player games (GTA, most of ubisoft and so on). No point getting all the disadvantage of the mmo if all you want is the large world.
 

CaitSeith

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Samtemdo8 said:
I also wonder why is it hard to make an MMORPG that is purely "Buy once and play anytime you want" type of service these days?
Which MMORPG was "pay once and play anytime you want"? As far as I remember, subscription fees were the norm until F2P became popular.
Samtemdo8 said:
Also I have said it before but the reason I envy MMORPGs as a single player person is the worlds and settings and sheer amount of charcater creation content they have. I mean DC Universe Online, why isn't there any proper Single Player Equivilant of it?

And I wanna play an Epic RPG in the Conan universe, or Everquest universe, or especially the SWTOR universe (SWTOR is different from KOTOR by hundreds of years)
I feel ya, buddy.
 
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Meiam summed it up well, and with words I couldn't have imagined ever writing, Hawki is right. Increased competition from many other online games and activities has increased competition and divided up the playerbase. This last thing in particular is very relevant, I'll briefly explain why.

WoW was a juggernaut, 12mill subs at its zenith. It dropped to somewhere around 5-7mill over the years before Blizz stopped publishing the figures. This is significant because one of the main secrets to its success was its ongoing success. Because it was so popular, it generated the most revenue and the most buzz. The massive revenue meant it could afford an army of devs to polish and create updates and massive content expansions. The buzz meant it got the lion's share of new MMO players too, all eager to play the best thing out there. It set the standard and led from the front while pretenders came and fell by the wayside. It's peak is passed, 14 years on and less than half its peak players, it's still by far the biggest MMO out there.

And that's really it. Other MMOs cannot get the numbers they need to keep devs working and without that, slower and less expansive content updates.

I also think as Meiam said, the number of F2P games now, like PoE and Warframe amongst many, not to mention replayable one-off purchase games like Borderlands 2, Payday 2, Diablo 3, etc make subscriptions seem archaic. MMOs also take a huge amount of time investment, even with money to skip some of the grind/timegating. Shorter form games like MOBAs, Payday 2, Fortnite allow players to enjoy their gaming time without the mountain of progression/levelling/gear grind ahead.

CaitSeith said:
Which MMORPG was "pay once and play anytime you want"? As far as I remember, subscription fees were the norm until F2P became popular.
Guild Wars back in 2004 was, IIRC, the first B2P (Buy to Play) MMO, which sold a box and granted full access everafter. The Secret World was also B2P (while the relaunced SW: Legends is fully F2P). I know there were others but cannot remember them off the top of my head.
CaitSeith said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Also I have said it before but the reason I envy MMORPGs as a single player person is the worlds and settings and sheer amount of charcater creation content they have. I mean DC Universe Online, why isn't there any proper Single Player Equivilant of it?

And I wanna play an Epic RPG in the Conan universe, or Everquest universe, or especially the SWTOR universe (SWTOR is different from KOTOR by hundreds of years)
I feel ya, buddy.
Can I also feel him? Like just a buttock or something?
 
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I wanted to make a separate post to address some of the specific games mentioned, many of which I've played to one degree or another, with some thoughts on each.

SWTOR - If I was to replay an MMO, it would be this one. Heck, I still have it installed on my hard drive. I preordered the biggest, most limited edition....this was the tail end of "Old BioWare" and I was a BW fanboy, a KotOR I & II nut, I read all the Old Republic era comics, etc. I played this on release, Sith side with two friends, I healed, one tank, one Deeps. It was a blast. From Dec 11 to Feb 12 it was awesome. I'm glad I got to see it at release, with the buggy Fleet bases and the ludicrous PvP imbalance on Ilum. So many Sith spawn camped the rebel camp, players would be vaporised the instant they respawned, automated defenses were annihaliated.

The main selling point was the class storylines, sadly these fell to the wayside in the expansions since, in fairness, writing eight quest lines is hard, time consuming and expensive, so they just write one and give the player a neutral name like "outlander". The class stories were great tho. The Imperial Agent in particular was brilliant and I would honestly recommend anyone who hasn't played the game, play it, even just F2P for the Agent storyline and move on (it can be done F2P). There were originally five endings, but one never made it to release and one was since cut. There are still three endings tho, one of which is based on actions in Act I, one based on Act II, and the last act where it's decided. All the other classes are literally a light/dark choice at the very end.

It was a great MMO, the "cinematic" storytelling, the phases, the planetary progression, the legacy stuff (essentially being able to share perks between all chars on an account) and great multiplayer experience made it really fun. But it lacked content at the end game and BioWare made some game killing decisions at the most crucial time. The playerbase started hemhoragging in Feb 2012, 3 months after release. My friends went too, but I luckily found a cool guild and had my only guild progression raiding experience in an MMO for the next 3 months. What happened tho, was BW were too slow to respond to fleeing players.

They basically had a) too many performance issues (Fleet at release was like 10FPS at peak times) b) too many servers/shards c) not enough content for the level 50s and lastly and most crucially d) when the players started leaving, having done all the content and ready to move on, they did nothing. For three months, not a word. Any player who wasn't level 10 or level 50 could hardly find a team for a flashpoint/dungeon. Eventually, they would merge servers which both killed my guild but alleviated the dwindling playerbase.

If they had responded sooner, or had fewer, more capable servers, I think SWTOR would have been in a different place now. They also didn't expect the population imbalance, with Sith outnumbering Pubs (republic) quite significantly, making PvP one sided. Ilum, the open world PvP was pretty bad, not just because of the thing I mentioned above, but there was literally no point or reward to go there.

SWTOR to many said everything that needed saying about MMOs. If BioWare, (formerly) one of the preeminent RPG makers of the era, with $300mill of EA money and the Star Wars license could not make a WoW beater, no one could....except....

-------------

ESO - I haven't spent nearly so much time with this one. I have maxed out one character, only through exploration, dungeons and finding the Skyshards. I haven't done *any* story missions, at all. The gameplay is fine, the classes are fine, the performance and visuals are fine, but the tragedy here is that it's a decade too late. I maintain to this day that back in 2003-2004, the biggest game IPs were Elder Scrolls (on the back of Morrowind) and Warcraft (WC3 was the best RTS of the day). Both franchises had massive fanbases, troves of lore and worlds ideal for adventure, but WoW made the leap first, with the promise to us WC3 players that we would be one of our factions "heroes" only on the ground level. If Elder Scrolls had had an MMO in 2004, I think it could have been what WoW became.

ESO is fine. It has scaling too, so everywhere you go enemies are scaled to you. You can even team a lvl 1 with a 50 and it can work. The lvl 1 lacks only in choice and some effectiveness, but gear wise, there's no difference. It is very different from other MMOs in that the core "loop" is like 4-5 seconds. Literally. Spells, abilities, movement, all happen in that time frame. It's really off-putting to me, but it's a deliberate design choice. Buffs, Debuffs, HoTs, DoTs, all need reapplying within 5ish seconds so it's a constant button mash. I'd play this again with someone, but not alone.

--------------

DC UO. A bad MMO with some good bits in it. You could be a superhero or villain, you had powers and got to beat up mooks. There were dungeons and some team content, but it lacked...I don't know, the X Factor. I actually paid $200 for a lifetime sub that I still have to this day. Waste of money.

--------------

Age of Conan. This one I kinda find tragic. It actually had all the ingredients of a great game. It was also unique that it was very mature, with blood, nudity and violence. Combat being twitch based likely put some people off. I put in my hours on this one but it was mostly solo. If I had to guess why it failed, I would suggest a few things. First, 3 factions for a game without a huge playerbase is utterly stupid. It meant that no faction had any players to team with, ever. All towns outside max level and Tortuga were deserted. Second, I don't know if Conan was a strong enough license, but may be wrong there. Three, Fucking Tortuga. When I tought "I fancy a second character, what shall I roll with?", made my slim-waisted, max chest slider, dark skinned maiden and FUCKING TORTUGA. I played it once in the beta, once on live and I wasn't going thru the whole thing a third time. At least in SWTOR there were two starting planets for each two classes, and each class had a unique storyline.

I never got to see much team content. I actually tried RPing, the one and only time I did, it was interesting but not enough to keep me playing when the main game couldn't. I believe it still has an active RP community, and lends itself well to it. PvP was shit, everything else was MMO standard fare. Overall, right ingredients, put together badly.

--------------
 
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Lastly, something positive:
-----------
The Secret World: This game is genuinely good. If any MMO needed to be turned into a SP experience, it was this one. Everything we could want as gamers was here. A great world, fantastic storytelling, amazing atmosphere, passionate, creative dev team creating something utterly remarkable. The three faction thing here (mostly) worked well, both mechanically and lore/story wise.

Probably the biggest complaint was the janky combat. In fairness, it was janky tho i didn't mind it. Since my main wasn't melee, I spent most of combat backpedalling and waving my arms around. It was a bit...well...yeah. But despite that, it just worked. It had the X Factor in spades, but couldn't attract the numbers. I think Lovecraftian Horror can't attract the masses like elves or lightsabers.

The freeform levelling and two weapon selection made for lots of unique builds. Granted in a team setting, most players fell into the Trinity categories, but outside of that, players were self-sufficient and could play many, many different ways. It was very rewarding and because it was "flat levelling", all content stayed relevant, all the time and apart from the main story branch, all content was replayable. The game had mystery/investigation missions, following trails of blood thru storm grates in the rain with a torch. Translating latin, solving puzzles, infiltrating cults, meeting ghosts, mummies, vampires and werewolves. If anyone told me they'd play it right now, I'd join them in a heartbeat. But after putting in so many hours to TSW, I couldn't bring myself to start over in SW: Legends, not on my own. I know the gameplay is different, but the game is the same.

----------------
City of Heroes/Villains: I still mourn this one. I'd still be subbed to it today if NCSoft hadn't sunsetted it in their stupidity. All CoV refugees are cursed with feeling like their home was just gone. I still remember my way around Mercy Island and Port Oakes. My characters all had such unique looks and personalities. I remember my midget Ninja Mastermind, my radioactive corruptor, my riot cop shield tanker, my ice queen, my monkey brute. It had the greatest character creator, still unmatched in 2018, amazing team content, infinitely replayable, challenges for every level, seasonal events, an amazing community and fantastic character builds and powersets.

Many MMOs now are eschewing or heavily limiting how individual any one character can be. SWTOR took away skill trees, killing my two hybrid characters dead, replacing it with a straight line and no choice. CoV had so much room for individual builds, although I'll grant min-maxing was legit and there were some builds objectively better.

I've backed two of the four current "spiritual successors" in development. They are City of Titans and Valiance Online. There's also Heroes and Villains and Ship of Heroes, tho I've not backed those. They've all been in development for years. Valiance entered Alpha this year, *shrug*, I wish one of them would be done already. Every now and then, whenever I get the pangs of nostalgia, I go to the CoT forums where the other refugees hang out and reminisce, talk about what may be ahead and ask about the ongoing shadowy project to reverse engineer CoV. No one talks about it for obvious reasons, but there's a tiny hope one day a private server could be a thing. Apparently, NCSoft being Korean, it's a very Korean thing that even tho they'll never use the IP for anything again, they would never sell it.

I could see myself having more fun with MMOs, but I wouldn't want to do it alone. My ideal situation right now would be me rolling a healer with someone else rolling a tank and we steamroll SWTOR, SW: Legends, maybe even ESO, letting random Deeps join us as we go. I wouldn't care much for the endgame gear grind, but would just love to do the story and team content, some battlegrounds/PvP, enjoy the levelling journey, get some cool looking gear/mounts, that sort of thing. It's fun, but I think there will never be another 12mill sub MMO again.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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KingsGambit said:
I wanted to make a separate post to address some of the specific games mentioned, many of which I've played to one degree or another, with some thoughts on each.

SWTOR - If I was to replay an MMO, it would be this one. Heck, I still have it installed on my hard drive. I preordered the biggest, most limited edition....this was the tail end of "Old BioWare" and I was a BW fanboy, a KotOR I & II nut, I read all the Old Republic era comics, etc. I played this on release, Sith side with two friends, I healed, one tank, one Deeps. It was a blast. From Dec 11 to Feb 12 it was awesome. I'm glad I got to see it at release, with the buggy Fleet bases and the ludicrous PvP imbalance on Ilum. So many Sith spawn camped the rebel camp, players would be vaporised the instant they respawned, automated defenses were annihaliated.

The main selling point was the class storylines, sadly these fell to the wayside in the expansions since, in fairness, writing eight quest lines is hard, time consuming and expensive, so they just write one and give the player a neutral name like "outlander". The class stories were great tho. The Imperial Agent in particular was brilliant and I would honestly recommend anyone who hasn't played the game, play it, even just F2P for the Agent storyline and move on (it can be done F2P). There were originally five endings, but one never made it to release and one was since cut. There are still three endings tho, one of which is based on actions in Act I, one based on Act II, and the last act where it's decided. All the other classes are literally a light/dark choice at the very end.

It was a great MMO, the "cinematic" storytelling, the phases, the planetary progression, the legacy stuff (essentially being able to share perks between all chars on an account) and great multiplayer experience made it really fun. But it lacked content at the end game and BioWare made some game killing decisions at the most crucial time. The playerbase started hemhoragging in Feb 2012, 3 months after release. My friends went too, but I luckily found a cool guild and had my only guild progression raiding experience in an MMO for the next 3 months. What happened tho, was BW were too slow to respond to fleeing players.

They basically had a) too many performance issues (Fleet at release was like 10FPS at peak times) b) too many servers/shards c) not enough content for the level 50s and lastly and most crucially d) when the players started leaving, having done all the content and ready to move on, they did nothing. For three months, not a word. Any player who wasn't level 10 or level 50 could hardly find a team for a flashpoint/dungeon. Eventually, they would merge servers which both killed my guild but alleviated the dwindling playerbase.

If they had responded sooner, or had fewer, more capable servers, I think SWTOR would have been in a different place now. They also didn't expect the population imbalance, with Sith outnumbering Pubs (republic) quite significantly, making PvP one sided. Ilum, the open world PvP was pretty bad, not just because of the thing I mentioned above, but there was literally no point or reward to go there.

SWTOR to many said everything that needed saying about MMOs. If BioWare, (formerly) one of the preeminent RPG makers of the era, with $300mill of EA money and the Star Wars license could not make a WoW beater, no one could....except....

-------------

ESO - I haven't spent nearly so much time with this one. I have maxed out one character, only through exploration, dungeons and finding the Skyshards. I haven't done *any* story missions, at all. The gameplay is fine, the classes are fine, the performance and visuals are fine, but the tragedy here is that it's a decade too late. I maintain to this day that back in 2003-2004, the biggest game IPs were Elder Scrolls (on the back of Morrowind) and Warcraft (WC3 was the best RTS of the day). Both franchises had massive fanbases, troves of lore and worlds ideal for adventure, but WoW made the leap first, with the promise to us WC3 players that we would be one of our factions "heroes" only on the ground level. If Elder Scrolls had had an MMO in 2004, I think it could have been what WoW became.

ESO is fine. It has scaling too, so everywhere you go enemies are scaled to you. You can even team a lvl 1 with a 50 and it can work. The lvl 1 lacks only in choice and some effectiveness, but gear wise, there's no difference. It is very different from other MMOs in that the core "loop" is like 4-5 seconds. Literally. Spells, abilities, movement, all happen in that time frame. It's really off-putting to me, but it's a deliberate design choice. Buffs, Debuffs, HoTs, DoTs, all need reapplying within 5ish seconds so it's a constant button mash. I'd play this again with someone, but not alone.

--------------

DC UO. A bad MMO with some good bits in it. You could be a superhero or villain, you had powers and got to beat up mooks. There were dungeons and some team content, but it lacked...I don't know, the X Factor. I actually paid $200 for a lifetime sub that I still have to this day. Waste of money.

--------------

Age of Conan. This one I kinda find tragic. It actually had all the ingredients of a great game. It was also unique that it was very mature, with blood, nudity and violence. Combat being twitch based likely put some people off. I put in my hours on this one but it was mostly solo. If I had to guess why it failed, I would suggest a few things. First, 3 factions for a game without a huge playerbase is utterly stupid. It meant that no faction had any players to team with, ever. All towns outside max level and Tortuga were deserted. Second, I don't know if Conan was a strong enough license, but may be wrong there. Three, Fucking Tortuga. When I tought "I fancy a second character, what shall I roll with?", made my slim-waisted, max chest slider, dark skinned maiden and FUCKING TORTUGA. I played it once in the beta, once on live and I wasn't going thru the whole thing a third time. At least in SWTOR there were two starting planets for each two classes, and each class had a unique storyline.

I never got to see much team content. I actually tried RPing, the one and only time I did, it was interesting but not enough to keep me playing when the main game couldn't. I believe it still has an active RP community, and lends itself well to it. PvP was shit, everything else was MMO standard fare. Overall, right ingredients, put together badly.

--------------
Man I wish they'd just patched a The Old Republic into a single player game. Fuck that shit would be off tap amazing.
 

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Meiam said:
MMO also have an insanely long development time (I'm still waiting for crownfall and that's being in development for like 4 years now), this means they can't really react to trend quickly enough to ride them, you end up with mmo coming out of the gate feeling dated already.
Which is a pretty good argument for not trying to chase trends. Have a clear vision for what makes your game good and unique and interesting, instead of looking at someone else's and saying "Me too!". Because trend chasing has the unfortunate drawback that a bunch of others are trying to do the same thing and now you're competing against all the other chasers.

Shamus Young did an amusing take on this a couple years back.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10964-We-re-Going-to-Be-Rich

Now, OTOH, you take an idea and decide "I can do this better. Just watch", that's a different story altogether.
 
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Samtemdo8 said:
KingsGambit said:
What do you thought of Ultima Online, Everquest, and Warhammer Online?
I never played the first two, though I very well understand the impact they had on the genre and the industry. Ultima also made Richard Garriott/Lord British a reputable guy...*cough*

For Warhammer Online, I sadly came to it after it had already been handed off to BioWare, which I understand was it's twilight. What I remember it doing differently was that it forced opposing faction players into contact with their missions. Both side's mission givers would give quests sending players into a sort of "conflict zone" to encourage PvP and hindering each others progress. It's a cool idea but needs players for it to work. I enjoyed the levelling/progression well enough, but my favourite part was the actually the missions. They were voice acted and very in-universe.

I was a goblin, my friend played an orc. I remember one mission, we had to spike some dwarven beer barrels so they got paralytically drunk and passed out. Then I had to pick up the dwarves one at a time, stuff them into barrels and push the barrels into a river leading to waterfall. It was pure genius, so funny and great to play, I still remember it as the highlight of my time in the game.

Warhammer are absolutely killing it with SP games at the moment tho, or just non-MMO games. Vermintide 1 and 2, Bloodbowl, Space Marine, Total War, Corsairs, and many more. I don't understand why WotC aren't releasing Dungeons and Dragons games like Warhammer are. It's a great world, with lore and history stretching back decades. The trouble is that a game needs to be engaging, and an MMO needs a playerbase for its mechanics to work. Not enough players means empty PvP areas, long queues for dungeons, a desolate world with deserted cities, no one to trade with, etc.

My first MMO was Eve Online. I played it just as it left Beta for two or three major expansions. I led a guild and made a fortune in industry, which became a great loss of interest. I was essentially doing a second job, managing labs and factories and bulk orders for players. I got very lucky in the Tech 2 lottery and got some very valuable original blueprints. My story ended badly tho, since my account was hacked and emptied and CCP Games let the hacker get away with it. It wasn't an "in-game" heist for which the game is famous, but an out of game hack, but they let it happen and did nothing to help me. So I have nothing good to say about CCP and won't give them another penny. Great game while I played it until I became a victim of my own success.
 

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Define popular. WoW, ESO, and plenty of other MMOs are doing fine.