Things Older Games Got Right

[Danbo Jambo]

After just posting on the Deus Ex MD thread, it dawned on me how much I hate how restrictive some modern day games have become.

For me, I much prefer the old school Deus Ex: The Conspiracy method of natural evolution. No Paragon/Renagade judgemental restrictions, no deprivation of XP for killing people; just a natural, organic evolution of the game, where each choice has it's own natural concequence with it having to fit into an overall pre-detirmined template.

Another example I can think of is the dialogue wheel and "safe" RPG conversations. I want to feel like I'm conversing with someone naturally, and that at any minute whatever I say could lead somewhere unexpected. I don't want to know our conversation is locked in a "safe" zone, nor do I appriciate the game devs telling me if my choice is "good/bad/funny". I'm the kind of bloke who'll tell my mates if they're fat or ugly, I do that to help them face up to the reality and sort themselves out in order to move to a better future, I see it as a good thing. But you can bet some devs would have this down as "bad" or "renegade". Who's right isn't important, what is important is that we determine that ourselves as gamers, and the NPCs react naturally to that.

Anyone agree/disagree or have their own examples of what older games did better?

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

The level design. I miss maze like level design. nowadays most developer either making linear scripted walking in straight line or making full open world games point A to point B. very few developers making good level design.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Mini games and secrets. Remember final fantasy 7 had a shit load of secrets, from materia, to summons, to weapons. That was awsome

Remember that FF9 chocobo mini game where that gave you a vague map and you had to go there with your chocobo ? That was fun

Remember tiple triad from final fantasy 8? That was hours of fun.

I'm guessing the internet ruined all that. But then again dark souls so.

 

[Saelune]

As fancy and impressive it is to have all that spoken dialogue, the variety of topics and discussion in games like Morrowind is cool for all the smaller touches that don't get cut due to having to have someone actually say them. Sure there was some redundant bloat, but having a dunmer woman early game passively mention some sunken daedric ruins, or other instances of unique dialogue hidden throughout.

 

[Bobular]

I generally don't feel like I have to explore in games anymore. It used to be that I would look in all the corners for ammo and health packs, or try to find secrets to get new guns.

These days I don't seem to have to do this and if I do I'm generally disappointed. Dark Souls is the only game I've played recently where I've gone back through an area to find what I missed, and actually find something new. The new doom game looks like it may have the exploration back in it as well.

 

[Sharia]

Ezekiel said a lot I wanted to say. Control systems need to be mentioned though. I love learning a new control system and older games had a lit of variety. Now though, all TPS basically copy Gears of war and FPS copy CoD, from its button mapping to its overall feel

 

[Mister K]

The neccessity to voice each and every line of dialogue harshly limits the amount of lines of dialogue that can be spoken by any of the characters in RPG's. I mean, OBVIOUSLY many modern games don't rely on voice acting (such as Shadowrun, for example), but most games still try to use it as much as possible. These modern kids are too gosh darn lazy to read *grumble grumble*.

Also, allow me to hop on the"budgets are too big" Train.

 

[maninahat]

What old games do well?

Including a booklet with the discs, that would ideally be full of lore, maps, instructions and other goodies.

A bevy of cheats that really change up the game - big head modes, one that adds farting noises when you move, novelty guns, that kind of thing.

 

[Hero of Lime]

Secrets and unlockables mostly. I can imagine many older games with neat unlockables being DLC nowadays. I don't necessarily hate paid DLC with a passion, but having a bunch of free things to unlock in a game was always great.

Also, the amazing things in games, that came from limited capabilities. So many amazing games barely made it with the tech limitations, but developers made it work. The seemingly unlimited capabilities in modern development can muddle up the game with things it does not need. Leading to odd creative choices.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

Skill checks in New Vegas and, to a lesser degree, Fallout 2. They really made your character feel distinct and established for each playthrough.

Fast forward to late 2015 and there are, like, 3 skill checks in Fallout 4, none of them in dialogue. It's all based on a perk system that punishes you for specializing.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I like how a lot of old games would give us interesting manuals and extras with the game. Sid Meier games (e.g. Civilization, Pirates) would often contain extensive manuals that also had a lot of interesting facts in them. I had a lot of fun studying the map that came with Pirates, to the point where I could generally navigate the world without having to bring up any in-game map.

I also have to say that I miss a lot of the early 3D platforming games like Super Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie. Yeah, they often had serious problems associated with trying to transition from a 2D to 3D space (so many bad swimming sections!), but the idea of exploring a world to overcome challenges in an effort to collect something was enjoyable. Sure, a lot of games, such as Assassin's Creed, still do that to an extent, but they don't design every level around that concept, and, as a result, the actual execution of collecting stuff tends to mean a lot less, to the point of being dull.

No Paragon/Renagade judgemental restrictions, no deprivation of XP for killing people; just a natural, organic evolution of the game, where each choice has it's own natural concequence with it having to fit into an overall pre-detirmined template.

Personally, I think the Paragon/Renegade system (or Friendship/Rivalry in Dragon Age) gets a little too much hate. Yes, there are ways in which these systems easily break down (e.g. Fallout's karma system), but I think we're too quick to judge them even when they don't fall completely apart.

For starters, they aren't always treated as a purely good/evil decision (as way too many people accuse them of being). Sometimes this is obvious (e.g. Dragon Age's friendship/rivalry system), but even the Paragon/Renegade of Mass Effect was treated, from the beginning, as Shepard's mental state rather than what was considered good or evil. Did Shepard believe benevolence and diplomacy could get what he wanted, or did he think threats and violence were the best ways to deal with worse threats? And whether or not Shepard could pass a Paragon/Renegade check depended on how strong his convictions were towards one or the other.

But what things like Paragon/Renegade meters do allow is to show how dozens of choices have small effects on people that build up over time. It's not a simple "if x then y, else z" check. Whether or not Isabela returns in Dragon Age 2 is not based on scouring her past looking for a two or three events that would determine if she'd come back. It was based on years (given the story's timeframe) of interaction that built into a strong enough friendship or rivalry with Hawke that gave her associated motivations for coming back. On the other hand, Shepard doesn't just draw from a single or handful of experiences to pass a Paragon/Renegade check: He draws on the entirety of his life and the small effects each event and outcome had on him and his convictions.

And in the grand scheme of things, that tends to be how things really go. As much as we like to think that single event X shaped a person so thoroughly as to put them on a permanent path towards Y or Z depending on how things turned out, that very rarely (if ever) happens. People and their relationships are shaped by countless experiences. To me, that's what some games (particularly recent BioWare ones) are trying to capture. If each choice is seen as a simple black/white morality choice, that's the player's own problem of simplifying the matter.

This isn't to say, though, that every game with a similar system handles itself well. I just think that people too quickly dismiss such systems because they, not the game, overly simplified what is going on.

 

[Evonisia]

Health bars.

This is mostly an issue with newer shooters, but can apply to other genres. Now. I've nothing against regenerating health at all. I've even got nothing (fundamentally) against the jam screen wherein red appears on your screen as you take damage, but I am extremely annoyed at not having at least a somewhat accurate representation of your remaining health.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I'm going to be THAT GUY who says Nintendo was absolutely right to stick with cartridges during the N64 days. I loved the PSX and Dreamcast games I played and of course I enjoy modern games on blu ray but I hate long load times. When it comes to cartridge or card based games (The DS and 3DS use cards, doesn't it?) those load times are virtually non-existent. Sure, Tony Hawk on the N64 had a fraction of the soundtrack and it didn't sound as good as the Dreamcast or PSX versions but I could get right into the game that much faster.

Speaking of getting straight into the game, I hate how the PS3 made me install games onto the HDD the first time I put them in. This is apparently something that still happens on modern consoles and I expect this with PC gaming but this isn't an issue on the Xbox 360, the Wii U, the Wii, and every other past console that isn't also a PC.

I feel like games didn't take themselves as seriously in the past. Remember that time Mortal Kombat had a Kart racing game built into it? That you could access from the word go? Then there were Friendship and Babalities that you could pull off from what, MK2 on? MK3 maybe? Aside from that series, there was Primal Rage which was Mortal Kombat with prehistoric animals and fart jokes. I'll try to get away from fighting games again...Boogerman! Nobody in their right mind would make Boogerman in this day and age. There used to be a series of puzzle games staring sentient eggs. Making a platform game? Make platforms into the form of a naked woman like Nintendo did in Kirby's Adventure. Not all modern games take themselves seriously, not all games are grey-and-brown but it seems like the earlier days were downright wacky.

Finally, and this is the big one...Cheat Codes. I say this a lot but my favorite Nintendo 64 game was Duke Nukem 64 and a close second was Goldeneye 007 and the main reason for that was due to the cheats. With or without a gameshark, it was great to turn on God mode, turn off gun-reloading and take the limits off of my ammo and just teach everything in my way that I AM THE GOD-KING OF THIS UNIVERSE AND IT'S TIME FOR SOME SMITING!

 

[FirstNameLastName]

As fancy and impressive it is to have all that spoken dialogue, the variety of topics and discussion in games like Morrowind is cool for all the smaller touches that don't get cut due to having to have someone actually say them. Sure there was some redundant bloat, but having a dunmer woman early game passively mention some sunken daedric ruins, or other instances of unique dialogue hidden throughout.

The neccessity to voice each and every line of dialogue harshly limits the amount of lines of dialogue that can be spoken by any of the characters in RPG's. I mean, OBVIOUSLY many modern games don't rely on voice acting (such as Shadowrun, for example), but most games still try to use it as much as possible. These modern kids are too gosh darn lazy to read *grumble grumble*.

Also, allow me to hop on the"budgets are too big" Train.

Going to have to throw in my support for this idea as well. Great voice acting and well crafted cutscenes (despite all the hate they get) are great in certain games, but when it comes to games with enough quantity of NPC interaction that these production values can no longer be sustained I'd actually rather they just ditched voice acting altogether and gave us a more expressive, mechanically satisfying dialogue system rather than a shallow dialogue system with a reasonable quantity of mediocre voice acting spread across it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Secrets and unlockables mostly. I can imagine many older games with neat unlockables being DLC nowadays. I don't necessarily hate paid DLC with a passion, but having a bunch of free things to unlock in a game was always great.

Also, the amazing things in games, that came from limited capabilities. So many amazing games barely made it with the tech limitations, but developers made it work. The seemingly unlimited capabilities in modern development can muddle up the game with things it does not need. Leading to odd creative choices.

Platinum and Grasshopper studios are the masters of this stuff; especially the former.

Health bars.

This is mostly an issue with newer shooters, but can apply to other genres. Now. I've nothing against regenerating health at all. I've even got nothing (fundamentally) against the jam screen wherein red appears on your screen as you take damage, but I am extremely annoyed at not having at least a somewhat accurate representation of your remaining health.

Yahtzee said the same thing back in 2008. With Doom 4, Shadow Warrior, and Wolenstein: TNO, they're starting to make a comeback with FPSs that emphasize on single-player. The hack n slash genre had a similar thing. Well any game that was aping God of War. Usually any GoW clone would only give you and maybe the bosses health, unless the latter had cosmetic damage to let the player know that he or she was doing some damage. This traces back to the original Devil May Cry, only Dante and the bosses had life meters. Mini-bosses and lesser enemies didn't, but most mini-bosses turned red to let the player know that they were near death.

DMC 2 gave everyone got life meters, DMC 3 & 4 gave lesser enemies life meters if one turned on the lock-on cursor, and DmC Reboot only gave them to bosses (the Definite Edition brought them back with the lock-on function for lesser enemies).

Once again, aside from Platinum and Grasshopper, most developers aren't using them. Though at least they're starting to make a comeback with the Japanese at least. If you played any of Platinum's they almost always have health meters for you, the enemies, mini-bosses, and bosses. You just gotta love that old-school philosophy. I think the reason health-meters nearly died out, because it breaks "immersion". If anything, regenerating health takes the player even further out the immersion, since you can get health back by just hiding in a corner sucking your thumb for a few seconds.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Perhaps best illustrated here:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=330

I made a topic a few months ago asking about why Big Head codes no longer exist, then I realized that nothing fun like that exists in FPS games any longer. Goldeneye, Turok and Perfect Dark had Paintball, Fists Only (for everyone), Enemy Rockets, Invincibility, Shrink Mode, Psychadelic Colours Mode...

One of the first answers I got? 'Because any time devoted to creating such a thing, no matter how small, is less time devoted to adding that sweet motion blur and bloom.' Uneducated guesswork? Yeah. More accurate than you think? Probably.

 

[Igor-Rowan]

There is something that Earthbound did that I simply CANNOT believe it hasn't become a staple: when you run into an enemy, if the game sees that your level is high enough to make the fight pointless, the enemy is instantly defeated and you get the experience. Why don't more games (or any other for that matter) do that? I want those sweet Execution Points without having to go through an entire fight with a weak enemy.

Goof Troop for the SNES was THE Co-op game, you didn't need to treat your friend like the working class (plotting to destroy you if not in full control), why don't more games take notes from that one because from Contra to the New Mario games I have way too many bad memories regarding games that required you to cooperate with another person, yet the game was designed against that.

Also, Megaman X, intro stages. I don't need to talk about them since Egoraptor pretty much summed up everything in his Sequelitis Megaman X video

 

[EHKOS]

I agree with level design. I was playing Zombi, and I was struck by how interesting and old school it was. It still had a ton of problems, a lot involving the source hardware's limitations like the "there's certainly no loading going on beyond this symmetrical winding corridor that's between every level transition." But it reminded me of old games where it was actually a big deal to get hit, to move with caution and attention. Nearly everything about it felt retro though.

 

[Ryallen]

I miss cheat codes and secrets. But, truth be told, that's about it. I'm a very dense person, and a lot of what people DO like about older games I DON'T. I don't like maze-like levels because in top down RPGs, everything looks the same. I don't like having not a lot of direction because I always get confused as to what I'm supposed to do. I don't like the increased difficulty because I get frustrated and quit. I like the more streamlined design that gaming has taken in more recent years. But I still miss cheat codes.