To what extent do you feel sorry for people who make incredibly stupid decisions?

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FirstNameLastName

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So I was recently reading this new article about a man who was sentenced to 15 years hard labor in North Korea. Now, as horrible as that is, the man wasn't some citizen who accidentally got on the wrong side of the law, he was some idiotic tourist from America who (allegedly) stole a propaganda banner just for the fun of it. Well, some people back home apparently suggested it, but considering he's 21 and not 5 years old, that can hardly absolve him of it.

Now, it seems rather unclear as to whether or not he actually did any of this, regardless of his own confession, since it seems possible (and considering some of the stuff North Korea is saying about the situation, quite likely) that it's all propaganda and he's simply speaking under duress. Regardless, even if he didn't steal the banner, he did chose to travel to one of the most notoriously corrupt, totalitarian shit-holes in the world that has non-existent human rights and an extensive history of imprisoning foreigners ... not exactly a genius decision either way.

As horrible as his situation is, and as much as it seems like he's simply being used as a political-pawn by the NK government, I'm still finding it rather difficult to feel any real emotion over this other than frustration at the bafflingly stupid decisions some people make.

It might seem like I'm victim blaming here, and that's probably because I am, but regardless of how alluring and mysterious NK might seem you would have to be an absolute cretin to willingly and knowingly put your fate in the hands of such a corrupt regime, especially with current tensions and their history of taking political prisoners.

And North Korea isn't the only place for this stuff to happen. Lots of tourists do foolish things to put themselves on the wrong side of the law in foreign countries, or just make other dumb decisions far from home.

Now, this thread isn't really about this North Korea incident, as much as I've waffled on about it, nor is it about foolish tourists, but rather, it prompted a more timeless topic about people who make stupid decisions and earn predictable consequences. We all make mistakes in life, but at what point does the stupidity of someone's mistake begin to sap your sympathy for them?

<color=red>Oh, and for the love of god, despite my use of the term "victim blaming", don't let this thread turn into yet another incarnation of the drunk-sex debate ... This is going to turn into yet another incarnation of the drunk-sex debate, isn't it?
 

Thaluikhain

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Generally, if it's more than one stupid decision. One mistake, even a stupid one, ok, oops. Get a bunch of things badly wrong, however, that's different.

A US tourist isn't just walking round NK, they have to make a conscious decision to visit one of the world's most notorious regimes, have to go to some effort to get there. They then have to make another decision to steal the flag.
 

stroopwafel

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Some people(for whatever reason) enjoy taking risks with their personal safety by traveling to third world shitholes or do really stupid shit like smuggle drugs or (in this case) offend the regime. To an extent I feel sorry for these people as they never appear to be the sharpest knives but ofcourse having made such conscious descisions they knew the risks of what they were going to do. So unfortunately for them they have to deal with the consequences.

That guy in North Korea seems espescially screwed though b/c as far as I know the U.S. doesn't even have any diplomatic ties with that communist hellhole.
 

Scarim Coral

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Ok for this situation, I do feel some sympathy toward him (I dread to think if they put him into that "compund"). I just see it as a stupid prank but ignorant of the full consequences of it.

For a situation that I did feel no sympathy for was that thread made weeks about about that girl who had a stalker for 10/ 15 years. In that article she said she was aware of the stalker but did nothing about it for years. She had all the time to deal with it until it was too late.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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FirstNameLastName said:
So I was recently reading this new article about a man who was sentenced to 15 years hard labor in North Korea. Now, as horrible as that is, the man wasn't some citizen who accidentally got on the wrong side of the law, he was some idiotic tourist from America who ...
Well there's your problem right there! He's an American who went on vacation in North Korea, that is a phenomenally stupid thing to do just by it self. Further going out to steal a piece of government property and offend the regime wasn't any brighter.

I feel sorry for the guy because he probably didn't know seriously he was going to get slammed for doing what he did. That said he should have known better, he should have known better than go to North Korea and piss off the government there... Really he should have known better than to go to North Korea as an American tourist, let alone break the law there. So while I have sympathy, he was kind of asking for this. He should have known they'd give him the harshest, that's assuming these charges aren't manufactured in the first place, being an American in North Korea is a blatantly bad position to be in. So yeah I'm sorry he got arrested, convicted, and sentenced to 15 years hard labor, but he did screw up by the numbers just being an American tourist in North Korea.
 

FirstNameLastName

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stroopwafel said:
...

That guy in North Korea seems espescially screwed though b/c as far as I know the U.S. doesn't even have any diplomatic ties with that communist hellhole.
It's kind of worse than no ties, I'm afraid. They seem to be in the process of beating their chests and talking about nuclear weapons and pushing out a whole bunch of war-rhetoric to their citizens, so relations aren't too good at the moment. That's partly why many believe this situation is manufactured for propaganda and/or other political motivations. Even if he did do it, it's clear they're putting massive amounts of embellishment on the story to paint him as some foreign villain, here in our glorious utopia to spread disunity among the people. They're even trying to pretend he's in league with the US government in order to pull off this most petty of hostilities (seriously, the idea of the US government sending people into their country to nick a couple of banners is absolutely laughable).

That's partly why I find this situation more frustrating than sad; the more I think about it, the more likely it seems that he's innocent. Yet, traveling there in the first place was a stupid decision. It just makes me want to scream "don't visit this corrupt shit-hole you cretins! No holiday is worth those risks." And yet, if people haven't learned to stay away yet, a few more casualties aren't going to help.
 

Musou Tensei

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Not a lot, outsiders should simply stay away from places like north korea, just stay at home, then this shit can't happen to you, hopefully.
 

Dimitriov

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FirstNameLastName said:
stroopwafel said:
...

That guy in North Korea seems espescially screwed though b/c as far as I know the U.S. doesn't even have any diplomatic ties with that communist hellhole.
It's kind of worse than no ties, I'm afraid. They seem to be in the process of beating their chests and talking about nuclear weapons and pushing out a whole bunch of war-rhetoric to their citizens, so relations aren't too good at the moment. That's partly why many believe this situation is manufactured for propaganda and/or other political motivations. Even if he did do it, it's clear they're putting massive amounts of embellishment on the story to paint him as some foreign villain, here in our glorious utopia to spread disunity among the people. They're even trying to pretend he's in league with the US government in order to pull off this most petty of hostilities (seriously, the idea of the US government sending people into their country to nick a couple of banners is absolutely laughable).

That's partly why I find this situation more frustrating than sad; the more I think about it, the more likely it seems that he's innocent. Yet, traveling there in the first place was a stupid decision. It just makes me want to scream "don't visit this corrupt shit-hole you cretins! No holiday is worth those risks." And yet, if people haven't learned to stay away yet, a few more casualties aren't going to help.
Not only is there political rhetoric, but it's worth remembering that technically we are at war with North Korea still. It's one hell of a long truce but still. You would have to be a colossal idiot to vacation in a country with whom you are technically at war.

Every time I read one of these stories my reaction is the same: 'what the fuck did you go to the DPRK for!'
 

happyninja42

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For me, I think it mostly depends on the risk vs reason ratio of the situation. If you're doing something really really risky/dangerous, but have a good rationale for it, I'll be more forgiving. If it's like the following two situations:

Drunk guy decides it would be funny to shoot a firework off his head, and dies due to the explosion truama to his brain. Or:

Drunk guy ignores the clearly marked 'DO NOT SWIM IN WATER AFTER DARK, THE ALLIGATORS WILL EAT YOU!" sign, and said to his friends "Fuck the gators", and then jumps in...to be immediately mauled by gators...

yeah, those types of scenarios, I have zero sympathy for the person. I would almost categorize "Going to North Korea for any reason" in this same category, because I honestly can't think of any good reason to go there, that isn't outweighed by the inherent risks to the person.

Age and sobriety are also major factors. If it's a kid (pre-teen, or even young teenager) I'll be more forgiving. I myself did some really stupid fucking things at that age, and only through skill, luck, and agility, was able to escape injury/death/arrest, so I can't really be too harsh. But there is a fine line on the sympathy scale, depending on what you are doing and why.
 

MHR

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I dunno

I feel about as sorry for him as I feel for someone who drunkenly sticks his testicles into an electric fence

not very

You know what? I feel less sorry for him even. He couldn't have been drunk the entire time it took him to get there and screw around. He was sober and stupid.

No wait, I feel even less sorry since now the regime gets to feel smug having caught a dirty enemy American, and we might even have to cede something in a negotiation just to get his dumb ass back.
 

CaitSeith

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It depends if they are victims of the natural human psychology, or if they are competing for the Darwin Awards.
 

BarkBarker

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You are an idiot, but the conditions of "hard labour" in korea kill a lot of people and ruin for life the rest, I feel stupidity equalling death being at least somewhat more....>"comfortable" that stupidity equalling us putting you to death I guess.
 

Fallow

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This isn't even a "foolish" decision, it's Darwin award quality.

Going to NK requires some awareness.
Being an american in NK requires more awareness.

Antagonising the state of NK while american while in NK is beyond foolish, and is an active choice. I would put this on par with the kid that thought it would be fun to SWAT his opponent in LoL and got caught; they have both more than earned having their lives ruined. Not because they were evil or criminal, but because their respective actions were so goddamn stupid it beggars belief.

So, 0 sympathy.
 

Jei-chan

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Does anyone know how he ended up in North Korea? I mean did he actually buy a ticket straight from the US to Pyongyang, or was he like... backpacking through Asia, got drunk somewhere in China and some Chinese guys convinced him it would be a good idea to visit?

I feel like I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt on "made a terrible decision in the moment" if he was talked into it from somewhere else in Asia, but literally flying to North Korea is... just utter madness, especially with how aggressive they've been recently.

Overall I guess it depends. I tend more towards bewilderment than condemnation even for people who do things I truly can't understand. Humans are weird creatures...
 

happyninja42

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Jei-chan said:
Does anyone know how he ended up in North Korea? I mean did he actually buy a ticket straight from the US to Pyongyang, or was he like... backpacking through Asia, got drunk somewhere in China and some Chinese guys convinced him it would be a good idea to visit?

I feel like I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt on "made a terrible decision in the moment" if he was talked into it from somewhere else in Asia, but literally flying to North Korea is... just utter madness, especially with how aggressive they've been recently.

Overall I guess it depends. I tend more towards bewilderment than condemnation even for people who do things I truly can't understand. Humans are weird creatures...
I have no clue, but the most common reason I've heard from similar cases, is some kind of charity work/group, sponsored by a church or something. As to your comment of "terrible decision at the moment", I'd be more inclined if it was some kind of "I was hiking in the area, and went the wrong direction, and they accused me of spying". But from the report, he vandalized some government property, which is pretty much meaning he meant to do what he did, not accidental.
 

Hero of Lime

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In general? I take pity on someone who does some really stupid stuff, since no one is free of making bad decisions. Some people just make more extreme bad decisions, that can have more devastating effects. That being said, if someone makes a bad choice twice, or more, then I lose a lot of pity.

For example, say someone binge drinks one weekend, and wind up blowing half their paycheck and gets sick for a bit. That is dumb, but it happens. Most sensible people will learn a valuable lesson from that. If the same person does the same thing the next weekend, well, they are just an idiot. No sympathy from me in that case.
 
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EVERYONE IS VICTIM BLAMING THIS POOR PERSON! SHAME ON ALL OF YOU! HE SHOULDN'T NEED COMMON SENSE!

/sarcasm

dumbass made a dumbass decision to go to a dumbass place when you are a heated rival of said dumbass goverment.

 

Fallow

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visiblenoise said:
Generally, I never feel sorry at all until it happens to someone I actually know.
It's not real-sorry, it's internet-sorry. It's all about you and nothing about the target of said sympathy.