Tolerance

[Fairee]

Firstly, this is not about people's opinions. Do NOT use this to start flame wars about personal beliefs like religion. This is a discussion about tolerance.

Basically, I've always considered myself a tolerant person. I have never thought any less of a person because they are gay (or bisexual or pansexual or whatever), or Christian (or Muslim or Jewish etc) or black (or other... ethnicity? Is that the right word?), so I must be a tolerant person who accepts everyone for who they are, right?

But then my parents came out about their views on homosexuality, and told me that despite saying they'd love me and my brother no matter what sexuality we were, in my mums words, "It's just not natural, is it?"

Of course to me, this was ridiculous. Being gay doesn't make you unnatural, it just makes you attracted to people of the same sex.

But more recently she said something else that got me thinking. "Our generation cannot judge yours, because you were brought up differently, just as you cannot judge us based on the way we grew up." And she's got a fair point there.

I'm not about to say you have to agree with every single person you ever meet. But surely taking the moral high ground over someone who was brought up with different beliefs, morals and ideas is just what those we consider intolerant are doing, so we are just like them.

So, what do people think? Can you consider yourself a tolerant person if you do not tolerate those who disagree with equality?

 

[Aerodynamic]

Im tolerant, even if I don't like a specific thing, I keep my mouth shut and deal with it.

 

[Sepiida]

My general opinion is that if a person is not causing harm to another human being then they should be able to do whatever they want. Intolerant views (i.e. racism) cause harm to other human beings. Therefore I don't think it's hypocritical in the least to be tolerant yet not tolerate intolerant viewpoints.

 

[oppp7]

Thank you for pointing that out. A lot of people need to realize that. Sure, it's easy to hate on people who talk on Fox or play sports, but they were brought up in a completely different way than we were.

 

[Fairee]

So I think when parents and older people say that, they're just using it as an excuse to avoid facing up to their own problems. I don't usually lay things down like absolutes, but I can firmly say that they are totally wrong and their opinion is dangerous and ignorant.

Overall, I agree that homophobia and such is dangerous, and that people should not be discriminated against based on their sexuality. What I'm saying is, if a person is brought up in a community where homosexuality is completely wrong and immoral, such as a deeply religious community, can you say that person is wrong for believing the only thing they've ever known in their life?

 

[Hiphophippo]

I'll never understand people who exhaust themselves hating other people. The world is so much a better place if everyone is happy.

 

[JRCB]

My general opinion is that if a person is not causing harm to another human being then they should be able to do whatever they want. Intolerant views (i.e. racism) cause harm to other human beings. Therefore I don't think it's hypocritical in the least to be tolerant yet not tolerate intolerant viewpoints.

I totally agree with this man.

And I believe that I am a fairly tolerant person.

 

[hittite]

There's an old family saying that I just made up on the spot: "if no one disagrees with me, how can I learn?"

 

[Indecizion]

Meh so long as someones views and actions in no way affects the freedoms of others i have no problems with what ever they do with their life, but that being said the term tolerant makes me a bit angry just the over use of it theres a different between being accepting and being tolerant being tolerant means that it annoys you and you just put up with it, you tolerate a flea you tolerate a rash tolerance isnt really something to be boasting about (looks at australia and its over use of the term as a positive in relations to their society)

 

[RavingPenguin]

Most people confuse tolerance for acceptance. Being able to dissagree on a subject and promptly move past it is tolerance. So yes, dissagreeing with a person is not intolerance, and on the same token, argueing is not intolerace. We can respectfully disagree and say why we disagree, however we have to approach each other with open minds. A closed mind is ignorant, the guarded mind is wise. If someone is closeminded, they will fight against everything that goes against their thoughts.

Spoiler: *ranty bit*

I hate the word tolerance though, expressly for the people who try to shove it down my throat. My father likes to say that sometimes the most intolerant people you will meet are the ones who preach tolerance. I may disagree with the gay man but I get that Im bigoted for hating him. I get scolded for "hating" the black man, I have nothing against any ethnicity. I dont follow the ways they live, but that by no means Im not open to the idea. I just have yet to be convinced that they live better than I do.

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

I don't care what race,gender,sexual orientation or whatever you are..if i can have a decent conversation and we get along then i don't see the point in arguing. Now if all you can spout to me is how you hate this, that and the other thing then just leave me alone.

 

[KnowYourOnion]

Thank you for pointing that out. A lot of people need to realize that. Sure, it's easy to hate on people who talk on Fox or play sports, but they were brought up in a completely different way than we were.

So being brought up differently means you can suspend all rational thought?
We can make our own choices about the world, not just adopt someone else's view point.

 

[oppp7]

Thank you for pointing that out. A lot of people need to realize that. Sure, it's easy to hate on people who talk on Fox or play sports, but they were brought up in a completely different way than we were.

So being brought up differently means you can suspend all rational thought?
We can make our own choices about the world, not just adopt someone else's view point.

True, but we can understand why they would have their point of views.

 

[pelopelopelo]

Firstly, this is not about people's opinions. Do NOT use this to start flame wars about personal beliefs like religion. This is a discussion about tolerance.

Basically, I've always considered myself a tolerant person. I have never thought any less of a person because they are gay (or bisexual or pansexual or whatever), or Christian (or Muslim or Jewish etc) or black (or other... ethnicity? Is that the right word?), so I must be a tolerant person who accepts everyone for who they are, right?

But then my parents came out about their views on homosexuality, and told me that despite saying they'd love me and my brother no matter what sexuality we were, in my mums words, "It's just not natural, is it?"

Of course to me, this was ridiculous. Being gay doesn't make you unnatural, it just makes you attracted to people of the same sex.

But more recently she said something else that got me thinking. "Our generation cannot judge yours, because you were brought up differently, just as you cannot judge us based on the way we grew up." And she's got a fair point there.

I'm not about to say you have to agree with every single person you ever meet. But surely taking the moral high ground over someone who was brought up with different beliefs, morals and ideas is just what those we consider intolerant are doing, so we are just like them.

So, what do people think? Can you consider yourself a tolerant person if you do not tolerate those who disagree with equality?

The "it's unnatural" argument is so fucking stupid it's untrue. People are pretty chill driving cars and they don't occur in nature. Nor do bras. Or ovens. Fridge magnets don't. Then there was the earthquake in Haiti. That was natural. Is it better that thousands died than some men find other men attractive?

It's the ol' appeal to nature [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature] fallacy, and it's quite silly.

And if that doesn't work, pose this question: humans are natural beings; products of the natural world. By default, surely anything we do is natural? The distinction between something being natural and something being human is a result of our in-built hubris, apparent in many other areas - homo sapiens sapiens for instance: the really wise man. How up ourselves is that? "You're eating like an animal!" et cetera, et cetera.

 

[Catchy Slogan]

So I think when parents and older people say that, they're just using it as an excuse to avoid facing up to their own problems. I don't usually lay things down like absolutes, but I can firmly say that they are totally wrong and their opinion is dangerous and ignorant.

Overall, I agree that homophobia and such is dangerous, and that people should not be discriminated against based on their sexuality. What I'm saying is, if a person is brought up in a community where homosexuality is completely wrong and immoral, such as a deeply religious community, can you say that person is wrong for believing the only thing they've ever known in their life?

Yes, you can.

It'd be like someone still believing in the four humours, and that modern medicine is wrong.

Ignorance is ignorance regardless if it is intentional or not. I won't try to force my views onto somebody, but if they can't see that there is more than one side to every argument, then they are too far gone in my view.

 

[RanD00M]

I´m tolerant and I don´t discriminate.

 

[cyber_andyy]

Yeah iI' tolerant, I will respect your beliefs, how ever wrong they maybe. Still, I will try to talk you round to a more snesible way of thinking.

Now if all you can spout to me is how you hate this, that and the other thing then just leave me alone.

Also this ^

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I'm tolerant except to people who are repressive to other people.

This may seem intolerant, and in many ways it is, but I believe the right to not be repressed is the fundamental human right, and the responsibility of others to not repress. By repressing someone, who invalidate your human responsibility, which means I can feel justified in treating you differently.

 

[WorkerMurphey]

So I think when parents and older people say that, they're just using it as an excuse to avoid facing up to their own problems. I don't usually lay things down like absolutes, but I can firmly say that they are totally wrong and their opinion is dangerous and ignorant.

Overall, I agree that homophobia and such is dangerous, and that people should not be discriminated against based on their sexuality. What I'm saying is, if a person is brought up in a community where homosexuality is completely wrong and immoral, such as a deeply religious community, can you say that person is wrong for believing the only thing they've ever known in their life?

By my understanding discussing tolerance and right or wrong doesn't work. Tolerance sometimes can become a sort of relativism in which things are not on a moral spectrum of right or wrong - simply different. Of course I think there are some things most people would agree are universally wrong but that doesn't quite create an absolute point from which to judge. You merely have a zeightgiest that decides homosexually is or is not an okay thing. The conflict in generational attitudes exemplifies how claiming right or wrong can be tricky.

I tend to think that on paper an intolerant person and a tolerant one have equally valid points to work from, they are both working with what life has given them in experience. However, the attitude of the majority wins out to determine what is wrong, ergo intolerance is wrong - not because of an intrinsic value, but because people have decided to think it is.

Personally I tend to think if it doesn't hurt someone else, have fun, I don't care. On the topic of homosexuality, I find it insane that in the U.S. marriage rights are denied to people out of some sort of fear that it might lead to men marrying pigs or children having to learn about anal sex in school.