Top 5 Biggest Complaints About the Core Pokemon Games

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bartholen_v1legacy

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Jan 24, 2009
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Joccaren said:
Still not an excuse to me. I agree that populating the areas with 5 different types would be overwhelming, but even the starting zone pokemon number at least in the 40+ count. There's no reason why they couldn't throw at least 6 different species in the zone. That would at least make it more interesting and give an incentive to stay in or even come back to the zone to see if you missed any pokemon there. All the games I've played have demonstrated in crystal clear terms that nope, there's nothing of value in the starting zones after you pass them the first time. Nothing but Rattata/Sentret/Zigzagoon/Hoothoot/Pidgey to be found there. Hell, they could just add this as an additional feature, sort of like difficulty settings: more pokemon for advanced players, basic formula for beginners.

As for the bug/dragon thing, is there a reason why it should be that way? In R/S/E you can catch Aron, a steel type, which evolves into one of the strongest pokemon in the game, before the second gym. Hell, you can get Magikarp early on in all of the games. In that light the argument of dragon pokemon meant for late game doesn't IMO hold up very well. Since the strongest types require more EXP, and therefore more time to train, it's not IMO a question of game balance, but investment. Do I want to train this pokemon I know will be strong in the late game now, when that means all my other pokemon will be weaker?
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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bartholen said:
Still not an excuse to me. I agree that populating the areas with 5 different types would be overwhelming, but even the starting zone pokemon number at least in the 40+ count. There's no reason why they couldn't throw at least 6 different species in the zone. That would at least make it more interesting and give an incentive to stay in or even come back to the zone to see if you missed any pokemon there. All the games I've played have demonstrated in crystal clear terms that nope, there's nothing of value in the starting zones after you pass them the first time. Nothing but Rattata/Sentret/Zigzagoon/Hoothoot/Pidgey to be found there. Hell, they could just add this as an additional feature, sort of like difficulty settings: more pokemon for advanced players, basic formula for beginners.
To be honest, there are usually at least 5 pokemon types in the starting zones these days. For Sun/Moon there was Caterpie, Metapod, Ratata, that new bug pokemon, pichu, a bird pokemon and a couple more. Even in the other core games, it was usually only the very first route that had only 1 or 2 pokemon, once you made it to the second town the numbers rose more. One thing with it though is that some of those pokemon are around a 1-5% chance of appearance. It does give you a reason to mess around and go back, but it isn't something you'd use as a core part of the game still.

Another part of it is post game content. Early game up until beating the Elite IV is meant to thematically flow as the story of that region - not as just a generic catch everything game. This means a higher focus on the ~150ish or so main pokemon in that region during this period of the game. Post elite IV, often methods to acquire pokemon from other regions more reliably appears, as the game changes from "Complete the story of this region" to "Catch everything". Keeping content for this post-game stage increases the lifespan of the game, and tends to keep people interested longer, while also introducing them to new pokemon at a more constant and manageable rate.

As for settings... Pokemon in general doesn't do settings, when a lot of the time it could help. That said though, as I said, there are other reasons than just complexity as to why there are only ~5-6 pokemon per zone generally [Though I think these days there are more in some]. Difficulty with appearance rates would mean anyone wanting to catch more types of pokemon, would play on the 'easier' setting where they can easier find those pokemon, and thematically and aesthetically it could cause incongruences depending on the zone and the pokemon available.

As for the bug/dragon thing, is there a reason why it should be that way? In R/S/E you can catch Aron, a steel type, which evolves into one of the strongest pokemon in the game, before the second gym. Hell, you can get Magikarp early on in all of the games. In that light the argument of dragon pokemon meant for late game doesn't IMO hold up very well. Since the strongest types require more EXP, and therefore more time to train, it's not IMO a question of game balance, but investment. Do I want to train this pokemon I know will be strong in the late game now, when that means all my other pokemon will be weaker?
Can't comment on Aaron since its been a while, but Magikarp is entirely useless until he does evolve, and he takes a while to evolve too. If you got magikarp late game, you'd spend an hour wondering around using exp share to level him up before he became useful. Hell, you often do that anyway as keeping him in your party is just... painful. The idea of giving it to you early is that you can exp share it from the start, and slowly build it up so that it evolves by the time you'd be ready to catch it in the wild.

As for the option of training one strong pokemon vs a team... Pokemon has, for a while now, been pushing towards making you train a team as a whole rather than a single sweeping pokemon, and that is generally the better strategy in the games anyway thanks to typings and such. There's already often a problem of many new players simply using their starter for the whole game, and then reaching a tough gym, having their starter faint, and that's the battle over. Its intended to push newer players to develop more varied strategies, that allow them to pass varied challenges, rather than one simple cheese strategy that stops their whole game when it fails. Its part of the reason exp share is now a group thing, rather than individual. The other half of that was to reduce grind - which is also part of why dragon/steels usually come later in the game; so you don't spend a ton of grind time levelling them up to be useful. When you get them, they're already useful, or close to it. You don't have to sit on it for the next 4 towns before you can use it in your party as a main combatant.
And, again, theming and aesthetic come into it too. Often the areas it makes sense for these rare, strong, dragons to be in, are areas you visit later in the game. You could re-arrange things so that the ancient village of the dragons is near the starting area, but it kind of conflicts with the idea of the dragons being strong and powerful when that happens, and may not fit with the world you're trying to build.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Jan 28, 2016
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Joccaren said:
Additionally, cramming 20 pokemon into one area would make the game hell. Its hard enough trying to catch a rare pokemon ATM when it has a 5% appearance rate. Imagine that was dropped to <1%, and you would see people raging. The more pokemon, the less each will appear, making it harder to actually catch the pokemon you want. It'd also make it far harder to keep track of where to catch each pokemon.
Just to support this - while Sun and Moon is pretty good with area density (it's like 5-8 pokemon per area, and they're usually different too, X & Y did something similar), there's still a couple asshole areas. 1 place has 7 pokemon, but 5 of them share a 10% chance of encountering any of them - it is amazing just how hard it is to run into the 1 of those 5 you haven't caught yet since there's so much competition for space. Even worse is there is a pokemon (in a different area) with a 1% encounter rate - didn't even know it was in the game until I looked it up online. Not even the Safari Zone from the first gen had encounter rates that bad, and that did have something like 8 pokemon to a zone.

That said, Sun and Moon did at least introduce a way to increase pokemon populations on routes - specific grass-patch encounters for different species. Not a means to have, say, 40 different guys in one route given how weird it would be to encounter a whole 'nother set of mons 5 feet from the last patch, but certainly makes sense if, say, you run into something like Surskit in the grass next to a pond, then Geodude in the grass next to the big rock. Get some variety and keep the lovely theme they tend to put the encounters into.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Kibeth41 said:
Wrex Brogan said:
Even worse is there is a pokemon (in a different area) with a 1% encounter rate - didn't even know it was in the game until I looked it up online. Not even the Safari Zone from the first gen had encounter rates that bad, and that did have something like 8 pokemon to a zone.
Erm.. Red and Blue totally had spawn rates as bad as that.

Granted, one of my biggest cripes is that Pokemon like Passimian have 5% catch rates, spawning in a singular area, while previous gen Pokemon have far higher.

Also.. Having just evolved an alolan Marowak, this thing is an absolute design oversight. It has high attack and mostly physical moves, yet lightningrod boosts its special attack. its signature move is learned at level 27, but it only evolves from cubone at level 28. And it only learns its first non-tm fire move at level 53..
re-looking it up that is true, but every pokemon with a 1% chance was also found in other areas, often with a higher rate (i.e. Scyther was 1% in one safari area, 5% in another; Chansey was 1% in the Safari zone, but 5% in another area, and 10% in Cerulean Cave). Kangashkhan in Sun and Moon, however, is only found in that one spot, at 1%, nowhere else. It's... not fun trying to find.

As for Marowak, while the movepool thing is weird (and sadly common when it comes to evolutions), the Lightning Rod-thing is largely due to changes the ability underwent - initially it just redirected electric attacks, but then they updated it so it gave the boost AND electric immunity, so pokemon like Manetric and Raichu could use it effectively (ground types - Rhydon and Marowak - didn't get the boost). Then Alolan Marowak comes along, turns to Fire/Ghost and... gets the Special boost it was originally never supposed to get. On the bright side, at least it retains it's immunity to electric attacks, even if it's movepool is god-awful because the move-relearner isn't available until nearly the end of the game.

Weird thing is, they updated the movepools so that pokemon specifically learn their signature attacks upon evolution, so... guess they just don't want people using Marowak despite the Alolan form, or something. Poor bastard can't catch a break.