"Torture platformers" (similar idea)

[MidnightSt]

according to TotalBiscuit's definition of torture platformers (Meatboy, ...aaand I can't remember any other, sorry :-D), how would a game described in short as "roguelike physics-based torture puzzler" interest you? What would you imagine under that description? Or what would you expect of a game to be ...worthy... of being described like that? Would it spark your interest enough to click on the title in Steam/desura/kickstarter/pick-your-service to learn more?

(I'm intentionally not making a poll, I'm interested in details.)

 

[Kurai Angelo]

Quite honestly, that sounds like a genre I would enjoy for five minutes before wanting to punch the nearest object to me.

I don't see the draw of combining roguelike aspects with torture aspects. That just seems like unnecessary rage inducing mechanics.

 

[TrevHead]

A better term would be Masocore http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlatformHell?from=Main.Masocore although I wouldn't class Super Meat Boy as a Masocore it's just hard not frustratingly hard imo.

 

[hazabaza1]

It's kind of already been made.
Presenting... CloudBerry Kingdom! [http://www.pwnee.com/]
Randomized levels, no checkpoints (that I know of), adjustable physics, it's all there.

 

[Launcelot111]

The thing I trust least about this idea is the "physics-based" part. The platforming part seems like it would be difficult in a way that requires a lot of precision, and I associate physics-based with trial and error in placing blocks or whatever until you get the trajectory of whatever you're trying to do just right. Physics puzzles are already plenty frustrating without adding intentionally frustrating elements.

 

[secretkeeper12]

From what little I know of it, Nethack [http://nethack.org/] might be what you're looking for. I'm not sure if it would qualify as "physics-based" (what do you mean by that anyways?), but it works as roguelike and DEFINITELY torture puzzler.

 

[Gatx]

I heard TotalBiscuit use the term precision platformer on his Dustforce let's play, which I feel is a term that fits the genre you're talking about much better.

I don't think roguelike quite works with platformers though. Roguelikes are all about random levels, difficulty, and consequence (I think permadeath is usually how it works) so it's all about planning and being cautious. Platformers are more about learning the obstacles in your way and figuring out the best path with fast fingers and trial and error. I mean imagine if every time you died in Meatboy, the level rearranged itself. You'd lack the satisfaction of finishing that level, but you have this completely new level you know absolutely nothing about.

From what little I know of it, Nethack [http://nethack.org/] might be what you're looking for. I'm not sure if it would qualify as "physics-based" (what do you mean by that anyways?), but it works as roguelike and DEFINITELY torture puzzler.

He's looking for a platformer - as in jumping. Even so, I don't get the physics based part either. Usually physics doesn't play too big a part in the action of platforming itself except maybe those few incredibly frustrating puzzles in Limbo.

 

[shrekfan246]

I heard TotalBiscuit use the term precision platformer on his Dustforce let's play, which I feel is a term that fits the genre you're talking about much better.

I don't think roguelike quite works with platformers though. [...] He's looking for a platformer - as in jumping. Even so, I don't get the physics based part either. Usually physics doesn't play too big a part in the action of platforming itself except maybe those few incredibly frustrating puzzles in Limbo.

"roguelike physics-based torture puzzler"

No mention of platforming except TotalBiscuit's use of the term.

OT: I'm bad at puzzle games, and if it's a roguelike I imagine that would add permadeath (or near enough) and randomized stages, which is a neat idea but would probably end up frustrating me after about ten-twenty minutes because of aforementioned lack of skill.

 

[secretkeeper12]

From what little I know of it, Nethack [http://nethack.org/] might be what you're looking for. I'm not sure if it would qualify as "physics-based" (what do you mean by that anyways?), but it works as roguelike and DEFINITELY torture puzzler.

He's looking for a platformer - as in jumping. Even so, I don't get the physics based part either. Usually physics doesn't play too big a part in the action of platforming itself except maybe those few incredibly frustrating puzzles in Limbo.

Doh, I see what I missed. It all makes sense now! Well not really, but eh.

 

[XzarTheMad]

Physics-based games are very hit or miss. Personally I steer clear of them, because I often grow tired of them very quickly. Similar with indie puzzle games, the only one that held my interest for any significant amount of time was Space Chem. Roguelikes, on the other hand, have become my favorite type of games, mainly due to the influence of Dungeons of Dredmor, but also FTL: Faster Than Light and Binding of Isaac. As others have pointed out, I think you will have a hard time making a puzzle game that is also a roguelike, since I'm having a hard time imagining the random element of roguelike levels with the controlled difficulty increase and level design of a puzzle game.

Personally, I am not a fan of "torture" games that are intended to be frustrating, so I doubt I would be enticed to investigate further if this was on Steam. Without knowing anything more, I would likely downvote it on Greenlight. But, seeing as I am probably not your intended audience, you may disregard that.

 

[Zipa]

Totalbiscuit actually did a WTF is of a torture platformer today. Personally I share his dislike of them as I just don't have the patience for them. I would likely end up punching my monitor or something.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I don't think I'm typical in this, but upon reading 'puzzler' I no longer have any idea what to expect. As in how does rogue-like have any bearing on a puzzler? Are you a randomly-generated shape and there are different paths depending on your size and colour? As for torture, it's fine, if you want to sell the game that way. I'd know what it meant.

 

[Cilisien]

It's kind of already been made.
Presenting... CloudBerry Kingdom! [http://www.pwnee.com/]
Randomized levels, no checkpoints (that I know of), adjustable physics, it's all there.

After watching the WTF is video from TB I noticed that some levels do indeed have checkpoints although they seem few and far between.

 

[default]

I heard TotalBiscuit use the term precision platformer on his Dustforce let's play, which I feel is a term that fits the genre you're talking about much better.

I don't think roguelike quite works with platformers though. Roguelikes are all about random levels, difficulty, and consequence (I think permadeath is usually how it works) so it's all about planning and being cautious. Platformers are more about learning the obstacles in your way and figuring out the best path with fast fingers and trial and error. I mean imagine if every time you died in Meatboy, the level rearranged itself. You'd lack the satisfaction of finishing that level, but you have this completely new level you know absolutely nothing about.

From what little I know of it, Nethack [http://nethack.org/] might be what you're looking for. I'm not sure if it would qualify as "physics-based" (what do you mean by that anyways?), but it works as roguelike and DEFINITELY torture puzzler.

He's looking for a platformer - as in jumping. Even so, I don't get the physics based part either. Usually physics doesn't play too big a part in the action of platforming itself except maybe those few incredibly frustrating puzzles in Limbo.

Well I'm developing a randomly-generated permadeath platformer right now, and if you play your cards VERY carefully in regards to design it's certainly possible and (not to toot my own horn) pretty damn fun. One way I found that helped me get the design aspects in place and actually work was to focus more on a consistent randomised level generator with elements that become more difficult as you progress that do not effect the platform layouts of the levels. I needed to be careful though with the generator to ensure that these levels don't get boring and that there is enough variety.

Player ability is important too, as well as carefully crafting the abilities of the enemies to work WITH the layouts you are going to encounter in a way that gives the player enough time to assess the situation and use the tools they have to overcome it.

 

[RJ 17]

A platformer where the objective is to jump simply from one platform to another, only in order to make the jump you have to jump from a very specific spot or you'll overshoot the target or understhoot the target. Once you've jumped, you have no control of the character while in mid-air, and every stage has random gravity increases or decreases. For that matter, the gravity switches each time you fail.

 

[Lilani]

To be perfectly honest, I don't really like grueling gameplay, at least not the kind that "torture platformers" offer. I like a challenge, but I prefer to use my wits about it. I'll puzzle over a Portal level or Professor Layton challenge all day long, but I'll eat my controller before you can get me to exercise the amount of memorization and muscle-memory required for a punishing platformer. To me, it's not a real "challenge" if all you're doing is memorizing where jumps and traps are and navigating them as efficiently as possible. That's just trial-and-error. I guess those rougelike platformers would technically be an exception, but I still don't like platformers that are challenging simply for the sake of being challenging. That isn't why I play platformers.

Same thing with bullet hell games. They're just clusterfucks of unfairness.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Thy Bleed Pixels is another of that type, my favorite one to.

 

[MidnightSt]

He's looking for a platformer - as in jumping. Even so, I don't get the physics based part either. Usually physics doesn't play too big a part in the action of platforming itself except maybe those few incredibly frustrating puzzles in Limbo.

no, i am not. i said "based on what TB defined as torture platformer, how would you imagine a game described as a torture *puzzler*?". my question had nothing to do with platformers whatsoever, I just took one single aspect, and tried to translate it to a completely different genre. namely the difficulty of what you're expected to do, and learning to do it by trial/error. i thought it would be a good idea to present a question in this form, obviously I was wrong as a few more people thought it was supposed to have something to do with platforming...

 

[MidnightSt]

I don't think I'm typical in this, but upon reading 'puzzler' I no longer have any idea what to expect. As in how does rogue-like have any bearing on a puzzler? Are you a randomly-generated shape and there are different paths depending on your size and colour? As for torture, it's fine, if you want to sell the game that way. I'd know what it meant.

"roguelike" as in "levels are completely procedurally generated, including the puzzles (don't think about how they would make sense, that's one of the core ideas, i've got a way in mind... theoretically), tools to solve them are numerous and nobody explains them to you, they're there for you to experiment and understand, some of them may be counterproductive or outright dangerous to you if used incorrectly, and thanks to the range of the tools most of the puzzles still have pretty much open-ended solution".

 

[MidnightSt]

A platformer where the objective is to jump simply from one platform to another, only in order to make the jump you have to jump from a very specific spot or you'll overshoot the target or understhoot the target. Once you've jumped, you have no control of the character while in mid-air, and every stage has random gravity increases or decreases. For that matter, the gravity switches each time you fail.

hey, you're probably the only one who really answered the question, thanks! though due to how I wrote it, you also misunderstood and assumed I was talking about a platformer, when I was merely providing it as an example/starting point to explain a specific property/feeling of torture platformers that would be taken out and translated to a completely different genre (physics-puzzler).