Trans folks and partners of trans folks (Adult Subject matter)

[Beautiful Tragedy]

Okay, I AM trans as people who know, or have seen my posts know, but I am having a bit of an issue with a friend of mine. He is pretty religious, and has some concerns. You see he struggles with his desire to find, date and be with a trans woman. He finds he can relate to them better and is able to **Communicate better** with us. One of his big concerns is as follows (I will be quoting from our VERY lengthy yahoo conversation so i don't mess up his words):

"there were those there that said it's simple if you want to be with a transsexual in any way you want penis, therefor you are gay"

Obvious being devoutly religious the connotation of being seen as "gay" can be troublesome.

"but if another TS women says that if I as a man liking you and you're a TS woman, that I am gay,...."

So even within our own community we have varying opinions on the subject.

"but I'd want the TS woman I am with to want to complete the change...."

So it's not like a 'fetish' thing, he would want his trans partner to complete transition, and he wrestles with that fact that even though she no longer has a penis, he should still be considered gay, because she did, but seems to be a little more "ok" with this scenario.

this might be a LITTLE edgy here but i think it's important to establish his mental state.;

"If I were to be with a preop TS woman who didn't want to complete the change.... well... If I did do what he did, and I did it for the same reasons as him ( which make sense to me), and I liked it.."**break here, he asked me about my one and only time being with a guy-on myself receiving oral sex- because he is a giving partner** "I guess that would mean I am gay then..."

I told him no, that would mean you care about your partner's needs as much as your own, and you are will to do "whatever it takes" to please them.

WHich he followed up with "well yeah, if you are gonna' be intimate with someone, you should be willing to please them"

which makes sense to me.

One last thing I wanted to add that shows more of how open minded he is;

"I like your wit, sassy. I like your laugh, , I like your neck ( don't ask me why). I think you have nice breasts," **Don't think I am a freak, I've never gotten naked in front of him, just seen me completely DRESSED on cam** "but mostly I like how I can talk to you about personal stuff, and not feel overly awkward about it"

He is a very sweet, sensitive, confused, tormented man. He seems genuinely tormented by how his brain (and body) react when it comes to trans girls. I tried really hard to give him my angle of it, and to be as understanding as possible, but i don't know how much good I actually did. He was VERY appreciative of our talk, and my advice, and opinions. I think it was really easy for me to relate to his struggle as I was brought up Catholic, and I get the whole "burning in hell/guilt" complex one can develop.

SO...trans folks, partners and or friends of trans folks??? help me out.. any advice I should extend to him? thanks so much for the read, and anything you can share.

 

[White Lightning]

Your story intrigues me, as I too am confused as to how this sort of thing works.

But why does he want to be with a Trans woman? (Does that mean a girl who went to a guy or the other way around?) Does he mean you specifically or does he think all trannys are like you? Seems to me he just likes you...

 

[Rose and Thorn]

Hiya I got your message in the group and thought I'd come take a look!

Hmmm I am not sure how helpful will be on this subject however. It certainly sounds like an odd scenario. but then maybe it is more common than I think for people to be most attracted to a trans person. The way I have usually seen it work is, a man would question if a MTF trans is actually female enough for him, or is it still gay. Errr what I mean is I see people struggleing with the idea of if they can accept the fact that someone used to be another gender from their current one. I have never heard of someone strickly being attracted to trans people in that sort of fashion that you decribed. Does he like non trans-females too, or just trans?

I too can understand how being brought up catholic can affect the mind and way of thinking. I once knew a gay man who married a woman just because he was catholic and didn't want to let his family down. Years later he couldn't take the lie anymore and finally came out with it, of course breaking the womans heart in the process. Can I really blame the man though for struggling with this demon? I don't think I can.

I think at the end of the day whether or not your friend considers MTF being gay or some other form of sexuality is going to have to be up to him, as it would for anyone else that is also in a situation like that.

I myself am pansexual so this is a dilema and personal question that I will never personally have to think about, but that doesn't mean we can't try to understand it and help people in these situations. I think the best you can do is be there for him and make sure he knows that you are. Be as open minded as your morals let you and answer any of his questions or concerns to the best of your ability. I think if he has to ask whether or not it is gay to fall for a MTF trans even when he is interested in them, than he is going to have a rough road ahead. He needs to know that it isn't wrong, but that might be impossible for him to grasp.

 

[Angelowl]

Checked the thread in hopes to being able to help. But I have trouble relating to the whole thing. Being a swedish bisexual metal-head gives me a "don't bother about the details and if people can't accept it, then they can fuck off". Yet I realise that it's hardly applicable to the situation, the whole religion issue as well as social expectations makes it pretty darn complicated.

From what I understand he's interested in transgirls due a practical matter, easier to relate to and understand. That is a good point, and one that I think he should focus on. Go for what works and that argument is something a lot of transgenders are able to accept. Still, if I met him IRL I would tell him to stop over-complicate things. A feminine person with boobs and a vagina, if you get called gay for liking that then those people are childish brats.

All he has to conclude is that he considers them to be women, and that he himself is a guy. Voila, a guy liking women. Pretty straight.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

But why does he want to be with a Trans woman? (Does that mean a girl who went to a guy or the other way around?) Does he mean you specifically or does he think all trannys are like you? Seems to me he just likes you...

Not arguing or being angry, but the word "tranny" is extremely derogatory to MOST trans people (hence why i never used the term). He does seem to like me *how much i don't know* BUT this is something he has struggled with for longer than I have known him. He's never discussed it before, because he was never comfortable talk to anyone about it.

Trans woman refers to a Male-to-Female transexual. Trans man is Female-to-Male.

thanks for tackling that.

Part of the problem seems to be whether other people think of him as gay, and I don't think he'll ever have a simple answer for that, as opinions relating to trans people can vary greatly, and I guess the only arbiter of what 'counts' as gay that he should be worried about is the one he prays to (making certain assumptions about his religion).

honestly, he's never mentioned how other PEOPLE see it, it's more how 'god' sees him, and his decision as to whether he wants to be with a trans girl.

He's not going to find an easy answer with this, whatever happens it's going to be hard for him, and he's going to need your help. Listening and trying to understand will definitely help and will be appreciated, even if it doesn't feel like you changed much.

Yeah, sometimes i don't feel like i am getting through to him 100%, but he always tells me how much better he feels after we've talked.

. I have never heard of someone strickly being attracted to trans people in that sort of fashion that you decribed. Does he like non trans-females too, or just trans?

No he's been with bio (or cis) women all his life... he just feels he may be better off with a trans girl, because of the stated feeling that he connects with them better.

From what I understand he's interested in transgirls due a practical matter, easier to relate to and understand. That is a good point, and one that I think he should focus on. Go for what works and that argument is something a lot of transgenders are able to accept. Still, if I met him IRL I would tell him to stop over-complicate things.

Yeah, I have been trying to very compassionately tell him, what's in your heart is what matters. God loves all his children, and Jesus WAS sent to cleanse us of original sin, and we are "supposed" to be forgiven for our transgressions IF we ask for it from him. And he did start to understand that last night. But he falls back on the verse in Leviticus... he says the bible IS god's word, and he takes it at that. Then again, i gently hit him with the mixed fabric clothing things and the the shellfish thing (his favorite food is lobster), so that sorta hit him.

. A feminine person with boobs and a vagina, if you get called gay for liking that then those people are childish brats.

All he has to conclude is that he considers them to be women, and that he himself is a guy. Voila, a guy liking women. Pretty straight.

That's part of the issue.. is PRE-op trans girls *which i am one*. and the whole "accidentally" "crossing swords". But there's more to that... i COULD go into a little, but i don't wanna get banned for talking about sex.


Anyway, thanks everyone for the assist... this is going to be an on-going issue, so i will continue to check back, and update if need be.

 

[Abomination]

But why does he want to be with a Trans woman? (Does that mean a girl who went to a guy or the other way around?) Does he mean you specifically or does he think all trannys are like you? Seems to me he just likes you...

He does seem to like me *how much i don't know* BUT this is something he has struggled with for longer than I have known him. He's never discussed it before, because he was never comfortable talk to anyone about it.

The issue we're primarily presented with here is first tackling his desire to be with a trans-woman. I am not saying wanting a trans-woman is an issue but he's being specific, isn't he? He doesn't want a woman and in this case he happens to have a trans-woman available - he seems to want a trans-woman specifically.

This is where the complication arises. What is his motivation for this? It would help with understanding how he is having the moral issues he's struggling with.

 

[Psykoma]

(From what little of the situation I´ve read)I really feel that its in actuality an infatuation with you, not necessarily with trans women as a whole, but because he may be uncomfortable in saying he really likes you, he instead finds some characteristic about you (transness) which he hasn't (or doesn´t think he´s) seen in the other women hes met, and decided that's what must be what attracts him to you.


As I´m sure you know, the trans population is as diverse in their personalities and looks as the cis population, he´d probably even be able to find more than a few very religious trans women.

This stuff here:

"I like your wit, sassy. I like your laugh, , I like your neck ( don't ask me why). I think you have nice breasts," **Don't think I am a freak, I've never gotten naked in front of him, just seen me completely DRESSED on cam** "but mostly I like how I can talk to you about personal stuff, and not feel overly awkward about it"

Definitely not representative of all trans people. It´s not bad or anything by any means, it´s just as representative of all trans women as a single cis woman is of all cis women.


As for the "but is it gay", I dunno. You can stand on a soap box and be didactic about how he should view things, but really he´s the only one who can come to that conclusion, especially if its more an issue between ´him and god´ rather than him and other people.

Good luck.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

The issue we're primarily presented with here is first tackling his desire to be with a trans-woman. I am not saying wanting a trans-woman is an issue but he's being specific, isn't he? He doesn't want a woman and in this case he happens to have a trans-woman available - he seems to want a trans-woman specifically.

This is where the complication arises. What is his motivation for this? It would help with understanding how he is having the moral issues he's struggling with.

As i said in the beginning, he finds it very easy to associate with trans women, and he is very comfortable opening up with me (at least). As much as we have talked, and even on yahoo with him now, although he doesn't know i am asking people about this, I KNOW in my mind he is NOT a fetishist, not as much as he wrestles with this issue. Why would you have SUCH a moral dilemma IF is was a "kink"? I tried to lay out as best as i could before where i THINK he's coming from with the moral conundrum.

Homosexuality refers to genders specifically. So if you're attracted to a transgendered female you're straight and your straight card will still be accepted at the movies for 15% off popcorn.

haha this is what i tell him (minus the popcorn discount)

I fear he may be fetishising transgendered women to some extent, which is problematic... Because he's not looking for someone who he will enjoy the company of for (presumably) his entire life but someone who meets a very narrow critera of superficial aspects.

Again, i don't think so... he isn't even sure he could be with a trans girl... he's just "trying" to be more open minded.

)I really feel that its in actuality an infatuation with you, not necessarily with trans women as a whole, but because he may be uncomfortable in saying he really likes you, he instead finds some characteristic about you (transness) which he hasn't (or doesn´t think he´s) seen in the other women hes met, and decided that's what must be what attracts him to you.

Well, as an answer to this, and as an update... he REALLY hinted at wanting to possibly take things a little further. I did NOT see it coming honestly. He talked about me meeting his son, and how he would explain it.. I told him "Why would you have to tell him anything, other than, 'this is Melanie'...you know?"

He also asked me this:

"After such a rough 1st marriage would you ever consider marrying again?" "would you be wanting to get married after you fully transition?" "what if the person likes you for you the way you already are, and wants to be there for you during the rest of your journey/change" He also asked me; "how long did you and your ex date before you popped the question?"

Curious questions for being "curious about MY life, but i suppose me probably didn't mean anything by it.

As for the "but is it gay", I dunno. You can stand on a soap box and be didactic about how he should view things, but really he´s the only one who can come to that conclusion, especially if its more an issue between ´him and god´ rather than him and other people.

I would never tell him HOW he should view things, I'm just trying to help him see a bigger picture. I never expected if he were to date, or whatever a trans girl, that it would be me... i'm not so egotistical.

Good luck.

thanks again everyone... if anyone is curious where this plays out, i'll keep updating, and asking for more help.


Edit, after he asked about the marrying again this he ended it with

"sorry to ask, just a little curious is all"

so yeah...

 

[Abomination]

The issue we're primarily presented with here is first tackling his desire to be with a trans-woman. I am not saying wanting a trans-woman is an issue but he's being specific, isn't he? He doesn't want a woman and in this case he happens to have a trans-woman available - he seems to want a trans-woman specifically.

This is where the complication arises. What is his motivation for this? It would help with understanding how he is having the moral issues he's struggling with.

As i said in the beginning, he finds it very easy to associate with trans women, and he is very comfortable opening up with me (at least). As much as we have talked, and even on yahoo with him now, although he doesn't know i am asking people about this, I KNOW in my mind he is NOT a fetishist, not as much as he wrestles with this issue. Why would you have SUCH a moral dilemma IF is was a "kink"? I tried to lay out as best as i could before where i THINK he's coming from with the moral conundrum.

It isn't me with the moral dilemma - it's him.

Would he date a cis-woman if given the chance? Or is he "settling" for a trans because he believes they're more "like guys" since they "were" one? But at the same time he's afraid it will be gay...

Sounds like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

Would he date a cis-woman if given the chance? Or is he "settling" for a trans because he believes they're more "like guys" since they "were" one? But at the same time he's afraid it will be gay...

Sounds like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.

No, i honestly think he's just trying to be open minded. He's VERY good looking and gets his fair share of cis-girls. I think, the whole "is it gay" concern stems from the gril he'd like to be with *possibly* being pre-op. It seems to be a plain and simple religious, and what would god think of him. thing.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

Final update...

It's not me he wanted... he says the distance is just too much. BUT I think he's finally open to accepting if he finds a trans girl he really likes, he won't question it, and 'go with the flow'... but he's not specifically looking for a trans girl now.

the worst part... he said last night/this morning... he hopes he find a girl (who's personality wife) just like me.


sigh... thanks again everyone.

 

[Jux]

Sucks things didn't work out for you. Been following this thread, and I wish I could have had some helpful advice, but as a cis het white guy with no firsthand knowledge of trans folks, I might as well be a fish telling a horse how to run.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

Sucks things didn't work out for you. Been following this thread, and I wish I could have had some helpful advice, but as a cis het white guy with no firsthand knowledge of trans folks, I might as well be a fish telling a horse how to run.

It's all good, and thanks... the WHOLE thing has *after last night* taken a turn for the ... "Interesting". lol

not sure i could even explain it anymore. lol

 

[Relish in Chaos]

the worst part... he said last night/this morning... he hopes he find a girl (who's personality wife) just like me.

I always wonder why people say that, and contemplate whether or not they're actually trying to hint that they like you, or genuinely mean "I want to meet someone like you, but not actually you", for some reason or another.

But I suppose things have been more or less cleared up now, so I hope your friend's...alright, I guess. That he sorts things out his own way.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

the worst part... he said last night/this morning... he hopes he find a girl (who's personality wife) just like me.

I always wonder why people say that, and contemplate whether or not they're actually trying to hint that they like you, or genuinely mean "I want to meet someone like you, but not actually you", for some reason or another.

But I suppose things have been more or less cleared up now, so I hope your friend's...alright, I guess. That he sorts things out his own way.

Yeah.. it continues to be complicated... He wrenched my heart from my chest last night, and then ... i can't even find the words to explain our 5 hour conversation... the only thing i can think of is rollercoaster. I need to let him go, but i just can't let myself do that... yeah, i'm a glutton for punishment,

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

It's been 20 days since my last post... not sure anyone cares anymore but i thought I'd toss another update in here. We've actually gotten VERY close... the "L" word popped up but was grazed over (he said it, not me), and even apologized for saying it. As I Said before, all of the time i spend with him is a crazy rollercoaster of a time. We chat nearly every day, watch movies together online, we talk about deeply personal things, and now he tells me has absolutely NO issue being with a transgirl. He tends to talk about as I am THAT girl.

I have had zero luck finding work (had a crappy interview yesterday), and he mentioned a cheap apartment in the town where he lives, and that it's "too bad i was there"...

Anyway, we have tried on several occasions to "pull away" from one another, and JUST be friends. That might work for a day or two, but we always end up "back together" talking about deeply personal stuff.

a few quotes from him... this sucks!

"alot of gurls want me, but the 1 I choose to want back, I can't have" (meaning me)

"ur lips look great"

"YOU would have made a damn fine parent"

"eh I'd still marry ya."

An exchange we had about a week and a half ago;

Matthias- sorry I told you I loved you btw Melanie . That was wrong of me

Me- it took me by surprise

Matthias -I shouldn't put that on you, not fair to you

Me- if it were true, i would prefer you NOT keep that to yourself

Matthias- I sometimes say things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn'ty

Me- i see

Matthias- I do feel very strongly towards you though

Me- yeah... same here

Matthias- That's why I talk so bluntly around you

Me- I prefer you be blunt


SOOOOO there's that... Anyway.. not really sure WHY I am even updating anymore... lol

 

[Shadowstar38]

"the "L" word popped up"

(Why on earth would he call you a lesbian?)

"sorry I told you I loved you"

(Fuck me I'm stupid) -_-

__________________________________________________________________

Any particular reason you have to just be friends? I think you may have mentioned you're with someone but my memory is faulty.