Trump Troubles

[Agema]

Trump improperly took away classified material, National Archives says

Archives says it has alerted Department of Justice about former president’s removal of files from White House

www.theguardian.com

Ooh, that's not good.

Trump and two eldest children must testify in New York case, judge rules

Ruling forces ex-president, Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr to comply with subpoenas as Letitia James investigates Trump Organization

www.theguardian.com

Dearie me, that's not good either.

For what it's worth, on the second count, the word on the street is that The Donald might be in a great deal of hot water for improper financial dealings. Apparently, his accountants have jumped ship and retracted ten years of certification of his accounts, which is hard to view as a vote of confidence.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If anybody with power actually suffers A Consequence, half of Congress would die of shock

 

[thebobmaster]

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I don't expect much of anything to come of this, but it is still great to see Trump in a situation where all of his bluster can't do jack shit to help him.

Speaking of his bluster...

Judge rejects Trump effort to toss lawsuits accusing him of Jan. 6 conspiracy

In a 112-page ruling, the judge said the evidence suggests Trump assembled the crowd and then instructed the rally-goers to march on the Capitol.

www.politico.com

 

[tippy2k2]

If anybody with power actually suffers A Consequence, half of Congress would die of shock

And the other half would be in jail

 

[BrawlMan]

Can you mark and execute the traitor while you're at it? That'll be nice. Given the gift a "true patriot" deserves.

 

[Agema]

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I don't expect much of anything to come of this, but it is still great to see Trump in a situation where all of his bluster can't do jack shit to help him.

One of my frustrations is that a lot of governments appear to have interpreted "low regulation" as "don't bother investigating and enforcing the rules".

Trump is I think a pretty egregious case of a much more common practice of iffy business dealings, much of which probably is borderline and only some slipping into fraud. Not necessarily very outrageous in dishonesty (compared to say, Bernie Madoff), although potentially wide in scope and involving large sums. Trump is in this sense representative of the lot of them, who all deserve more scrutiny.

In terms of the national archives, if I had to pinpoint why I particularly hated Trump as president, it is again this dishonesty and corruption. Transparency and accountability matters. There have been a lot of rumours that he concealed government business through dubious means, and allegedly disappearing large amounts of records fits with his playstyle. A man who thinks he shouldn't have to obey the law, broke it, and then thought simply to destroy the evidence. This is ruinous for good governance.

 

[Trunkage]

One of my frustrations is that a lot of governments appear to have interpreted "low regulation" as "don't bother investigating and enforcing the rules".

Trump is I think a pretty egregious case of a much more common practice of iffy business dealings, much of which probably is borderline and only some slipping into fraud. Not necessarily very outrageous in dishonesty (compared to say, Bernie Madoff), although potentially wide in scope and involving large sums. Trump is in this sense representative of the lot of them, who all deserve more scrutiny.

In terms of the national archives, if I had to pinpoint why I particularly hated Trump as president, it is again this dishonesty and corruption. Transparency and accountability matters. There have been a lot of rumours that he concealed government business through dubious means, and allegedly disappearing large amounts of records fits with his playstyle. A man who thinks he shouldn't have to obey the law, broke it, and then thought simply to destroy the evidence. This is ruinous for good governance.

No, I think you're wrong about 'low regulation' governments. They are VERY keen to investigate and enforce the rules... on other people. Not them.

Trump was very adamant about many people needing to go to jail. He was also very adamant that he should not be even criticized, let alone investigated

Low regulation just means laws that benefit them, not others

 

[SilentPony]

Sorry to say nothing will happen. Trump is now US royalty, and the political class won't stand to see him or his kids on trial for anything. Remember when he invited Russian spies into the Oval office and showed them classified documents ON CAMERA? Yeah, fuck all happened.
At best Trump and his kids will just plead the 5th or plead complete ignorance. At worst he'll just call the entire trial a Democratic witch hunt, and his followers will threaten the DA and judge, and then politicians will step in and quietly close the investigation, citing irregularities in chain of custody over the evidence.

 

[MrCalavera]

Well, fortunately for him as a Former POTUS™ he isn't going to jail, ever.

 

[tstorm823]

Remember when he invited Russian spies into the Oval office and showed them classified documents ON CAMERA?

If you're going to say this, you should be able to link the video, right? I remember when Trump talked to Russian ambassadors in the Oval Office, and people said he told them classified intelligence about ISIS in a meeting on counter-terrorism. So it wasn't spies, they weren't shown physical documents, and the accusation came by word of mouth. Unless you're talking about a Trump gaffe the media chose not to report on, you're so many degrees of wrong, I'm inclined to think you're doing it on purpose.

 

[Agema]

you're so many degrees of wrong,

And yet despite all those degrees of wrong, in broad strokes it has a lot of truth: Trump did in fact blab intelligence inappropriately - and not just once, nor just to the Russians.

One might argue he had the technical right to, but it surely was not wise or competent to. One caused unhappiness in the UK because Trump blabbed intel which the UK had given to the USA, and he certainly should not be publicly revealing an ally's intelligence without prior agreement. But that's Trump all over: there is no objective other than ingratiating himself and showing off.

 

[Gordon_4]

Trump improperly took away classified material, National Archives says

Archives says it has alerted Department of Justice about former president’s removal of files from White House

www.theguardian.com

Ooh, that's not good.

An understatement if ever there was one.

If that is true - and I believe he'd be that stupid - then....well the consequences for most people removing classified material like that, is about pretty harsh. I doubt Mister Trump will feel the full, or indeed any, force of the law on this however.

 

[Agema]

An understatement if ever there was one.

If that is true - and I believe he'd be that stupid - then....well the consequences for most people removing classified material like that, is about pretty harsh. I doubt Mister Trump will feel the full, or indeed any, force of the law on this however.

And that's exactly why he needs to face the law. If there are no consequences for misconduct, the only thing in the way of corruption is personal moral fibre, and that's a perilously weak barrier. Corruption is dealt with by institutional measures to investigate and prosecute misconduct, not the futile dreams of an electorate that unlike the last ten, this new guy is magically going to have the right moral standards.

Not prosecuting Trump is a licence for any subsequent president to break the law and destroy all the records that could be used to substantiate it.

 

[tstorm823]

And yet despite all those degrees of wrong, in broad strokes it has a lot of truth.

Trying to tell truth with lies does less to convey the truth than it does to hide it. If you say Trump is loudmouthed and irresponsible, but then support that claim with 100% lies, it's more likely to convince people your claim is wrong than that it is true.

 

[Agema]

Trying to tell truth with lies does less to convey the truth than it does to hide it. If you say Trump is loudmouthed and irresponsible, but then support that claim with 100% lies, it's more likely to convince people your claim is wrong than that it is true.

So it would be your contention that the Persians never invaded Greece because there identifiable errors in Herodotus's history of the Persian Wars?

 

[meiam]

One part of me is thinking that nothing will happen because this hardly break the top 10 "shitty thing Trump did that he should be in jail for".

But at the same time, Trump popularity among republican is actually slowly sliding because he's not in the news much these days and people are starting to forget about him. I think his popularity is a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, he's popular with republican because they keep hearing about how popular he is. This work great until it stop working, at which point his popularity will probably disappear very quickly and it'll be much easier for him to get nailed for all the shit he did. On the flip side, this means Desanti is probably going to be president 2024-2032...

 

[tstorm823]

So it would be your contention that the Persians never invaded Greece because there identifiable errors in Herodotus's history of the Persian Wars?

The accuracy of a storyteller does not have any effect on the truth behind the story either way, but if the person telling you that the Persians invaded Greece claimed they did so via spaceship, you'd be less likely to believe them on anything.

 

[Seanchaidh]

And yet despite all those degrees of wrong, in broad strokes it has a lot of truth: Trump did in fact blab intelligence inappropriately - and not just once, nor just to the Russians.

He should've done it more. Fuck secrecy.

 

[Agema]

The accuracy of a storyteller does not have any effect on the truth behind the story either way, but if the person telling you that the Persians invaded Greece claimed they did so via spaceship, you'd be less likely to believe them on anything.

It wouldn't stop me believing that the Persians invaded Greece, though - and that basic essence is the most important thing.

 

[Trunkage]

It wouldn't stop me believing that the Persians invaded Greece, though - and that basic essence is the most important thing.

I would point out that one half of an argument that's provable doesn't make the other half automatically wrong

Eg. CNN made jokes about horse paste. Which is wrong (at least the proscribed dosages.) That doesn't mean that Ivermectin isn't dangerous in the wrong amount or ineffective against Covid.

Not having space ships is does not mean there is no invasion. It's two seperate variables you need to disprove. And also why debunking essays are way longer than misinformation claims