UK Labour wanted to lose

[Trunkage]

So, Covid has caused a ruckus and this has gone to the wayside

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Labour deliberately sabotaged Corbyn in 2017. They also showed contempt for the average person. They probably made up lies about anti-Semitism or at least made it hard for Corbyn to deal with.

I'm also looking for an update as this happened a couple and I havent seen any further information

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Encouraging to know no matter the country, if you're left leaning your allies will stab you in the back.

 

[Trunkage]

Encouraging to know no matter the country, if you're left leaning your allies will stab you in the back.

But the left is only communists. There is no possibility of anything else.

(Also, its a very bad assumption that all communists are the same. Trying to say that Marx and Lenin are the same is like saying Reagan and Trump are the same.)

Also, I remember being very astonished that there are 800 PAGES of this back stabbery

 

[Agema]

Encouraging to know no matter the country, if you're left leaning your allies will stab you in the back.

Backstabbing is common to all politics. However, it seems to me the right wing normally accomplish a quick and devastating backstab before rapidly rallying around the new leader. Left-wingers however squabble and undermine gradually over a protracted period of time.

I suspect this partly reflects political attitudes. Right-wingers tend to have stronger ideas of hierarchy, so it's a case of a clique wiping out the guy at the top and getting on with it. Left-wingers are more about collective action, so tend to spend their time building a platform amongst their peers for a group resolution.

 

[Breakdown]

So, Covid has caused a ruckus and this has gone to the wayside

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Labour deliberately sabotaged Corbyn in 2017. They also showed contempt for the average person. They probably made up lies about anti-Semitism or at least made it hard for Corbyn to deal with.

I'm also looking for an update as this happened a couple and I havent seen any further information

The lastest news is that Jennie Formby has resigned as general secretary of the Labour party. She was an ally of Jeremy Corbyn, and Keir Starmer wanted her gone. It looks like he wants Emilie Oldknow as replacement, even though she was one of the worst offenders in the leaked report.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

So, Covid has caused a ruckus and this has gone to the wayside

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Labour deliberately sabotaged Corbyn in 2017. They also showed contempt for the average person. They probably made up lies about anti-Semitism or at least made it hard for Corbyn to deal with.

I'm also looking for an update as this happened a couple and I havent seen any further information

The anti-semitism wasn't made up from what I read, but the party's infighting made any possibility of dealing with it impossible since there was always some coup in place against Corbyn. The problem is more that Zionists and the Tories jumped on this bandwagon to start smearing the party's line on Israel and Palestine, much in the same way that Corbyn having been at peace talks in Ireland was used as a way to smear him as a secret IRA member. The funniest part to me was that the entire cabinet were painted as extremists whilst they were essentially social democrats who espoused the same national chauvinism that any other party in the UK had. The issue is that the conspirators got what they wanted - the Labour party has jerked back rightwards, it's going to sit on its ass for the next five years whilst the Tories steer the ship and the alienation in the North-East that made brexit such a key issue is going to continue as Boris leads neoliberal policies into the foray.

This is where I part with trotskyoids in Momentum. They think they can just steer the Labour party leftwards, that it can be hollowed out and be turned into a revolutionary party along Leninist lines, yet at the same time they both perpetuate and tolerate this kind of bullshit for what amounts to be social democracy in the best instance, and total anti-radicalism in the usual instance. Now their efforts in boosting labour membership have turned against them, even when they were banking on the white middle class english vote in the first place.

 

[Trunkage]

The lastest news is that Jennie Formby has resigned as general secretary of the Labour party. She was an ally of Jeremy Corbyn, and Keir Starmer wanted her gone. It looks like he wants Emilie Oldknow as replacement, even though she was one of the worst offenders in the leaked report.

So either Stamer was in on it, or she can use that knowledge of taking out Corbyn to leverage a better position

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Yeah, I seen the report, and it was kinda obvious things were steering that way from the start if you happened to follow any of their antics around social media, interviews and columns. The problem with having Thatcher essentially groom the next generation of "oppostion" really solidified conservative power over the economy. How the hell that was allowed to slip by unchallenged is beyond me. Now we got a batman villain to appease the Murdoch press's standards for acceptable opposition. Nothing but fucking despair, and damage control yet again.

 

[Silvanus]

I remember Seanchaidh created a thread about this on The Escapist's old forum shortly before it closed, but it didn't get any traction. It's an extremely damning report.

The issue is that the conspirators got what they wanted - the Labour party has jerked back rightwards [...]

Has it? I keep seeing various Labour-supporting people saying that Starmer represents a lurch to the right, but his voting record is very similar to Corbyn's. He's just better dressed, used to be a lawyer, and doesn't speak very passionately.

In truth, both Corbyn and Starmer were left-of-centre in terms of voting record and policy, with very different styles of communication and presentation. But substance is what matters.

So either Stamer was in on it, or she can use that knowledge of taking out Corbyn to leverage a better position

Or she won't get it. She hasn't actually got the job so it's rather premature to be assigning guilt to Starmer.

This is just based on a rumour, and a rumour from before the investigation even took place.

 

[meiam]

It's kinda missing any sense of scale, are we talking about 2-3 guy exchanging text or are we talking about hundreds of people funnelling millions of dollar?

Many people in Labour were openly opposed to Corbyn, they tried to replace him 2 time I think. But this wasn't some insane right wing conspiracy, this was just people who saw the writing on the wall, and they were right. Labour got absolutely massacred last election because the UK public at large does not like Corbyn or his idea in the slightest. Labour had it's worst results in almost 100 years, handing a crushing majority to Boris Johnson of all people!

We have a case where a notably left wing leader with a long history of opposition but few, if any, achievements who took control of a party because of a strong core of motivated young voter despite most of the actual party base and country disliking him and his idea. This person was up, in the election, against one of the least popular politician in the country, someone many person consider a clown and who only care about the loyalty of his subordinate and who was also widely rejected by his party before his leadership. Every pool predicted this new left wing leader would fare badly yet the leader refused to moderate his stance. The rest is history. Why does this situation remind me of something else...

 

[Worgen]

Encouraging to know no matter the country, if you're left leaning your allies will stab you in the back.

The left really likes to purity check itself and will tear itself apart over it. Its why the right will tend to be more politically effective since they can unite against a single group or idea and get into office while the left will infight over petty bs.

 

[Breakdown]

It's kinda missing any sense of scale, are we talking about 2-3 guy exchanging text or are we talking about hundreds of people funnelling millions of dollar?

Many people in Labour were openly opposed to Corbyn, they tried to replace him 2 time I think. But this wasn't some insane right wing conspiracy, this was just people who saw the writing on the wall, and they were right. Labour got absolutely massacred last election because the UK public at large does not like Corbyn or his idea in the slightest. Labour had it's worst results in almost 100 years, handing a crushing majority to Boris Johnson of all people!

We have a case where a notably left wing leader with a long history of opposition but few, if any, achievements who took control of a party because of a strong core of motivated young voter despite most of the actual party base and country disliking him and his idea. This person was up, in the election, against one of the least popular politician in the country, someone many person consider a clown and who only care about the loyalty of his subordinate and who was also widely rejected by his party before his leadership. Every pool predicted this new left wing leader would fare badly yet the leader refused to moderate his stance. The rest is history. Why does this situation remind me of something else...

In terms of number of votes and percentage, Corbyn still did better in the 2019 election than Ed Milliband in 2015 and Gordon Brown in 2010. And in 2017 he got an additional 3.5 million votes for Labour compared to the 2015 election. And it's worth bearing in mind that previous Labour leaders could take Scottish votes for granted, but Corbyn never had that advantage after Milliband lost Scotland to the SNP.

2019 was all about Brexit, and Corbyn was pushed into compromising and promising a second referendum. That's why he lost so many safe Labour seats. The left wing political and media establishment completely underestimated popular support for Brexit. And the anti-semitism smear campaign didn't help either.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The left really likes to purity check itself and will tear itself apart over it. Its why the right will tend to be more politically effective since they can unite against a single group or idea and get into office while the left will infight over petty bs.

It doesn't help when 'the left' in this case are actually conservatives.

 

[meiam]

It doesn't help when 'the left' in this case are actually conservatives.

Can we use the "no true Scotsman" in the cases of UK politic or does that make it weird?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Can we use the "no true Scotsman" in the cases of UK politic or does that make it weird?

lol

But I recall hearing that the saboteurs in this case were cheering for Tory victory in and of itself.

 

[Worgen]

It doesn't help when 'the left' in this case are actually conservatives.

And there is the purity test.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

And there is the purity test.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

Yes, I do consider people who want the right wing to win over left wing not left wingers, it's an amazingly high purity test, very few people make it. Maybe I should compromise and just make a second right wing party so only the right wins?

 

[Worgen]

Yes, I do consider people who want the right wing to win over left wing not left wingers, it's an amazingly high purity test, very few people make it. Maybe I should compromise and just make a second right wing party so only the right wins?

Which means that you don't really care about getting policies passed, you just care about having the moral high ground. You are fine with losing over and over and over again as long as you can say you are better then them.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Which means that you don't really care about getting policies passed, you just care about having the moral high ground. You are fine with losing over and over and over again as long as you can say you are better then them.

...

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

An election night chat log shows that 45 minutes after the exit poll revealed that Labour had overturned the Conservative majority, one senior official said the result was the “opposite to what I had been working towards for the last couple of years”, describing themselves and their allies as “silent and grey-faced” and in need of counselling.

They had someone who would fight for left wing policies, and they sabotaged him for the conservatives. They preferred a conservative victory to their own party. They worked for an opposing party to undo their own.

THEY WORKED FOR AN OPPOSING PARTY TO UNDO THEIR OWN.

 

[Trunkage]

Can't the English just do it the Australian way. Get elected in first, then boot the Prime Minister out and replace with whoever you want