Ultimate Battle: the boss of the game (spoilers maybe)

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Zera

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There are many things I look for in the games that I play. One of the most Important parts of the game(to me anyways) will always be the final battle. To me, its what all the games I play lead up to anyways, therefore it should be well worth it when i finally get there.
But now brings the question: What makes a great "boss of the game"? Better yet what makes an EPIC final battle?
Should the boss be a surprise or something you knew from the beginning?
What kind of music should play during battle?
Should the battle be long or short?
Should it easy, difficult, or murderous?
Does the final boss's character development make for a better fight?
Should the boss be developed at all?

What are your opinions on this matter?
 

Bongo Bill

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N'Gai Croal said it right [http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/10/08/things-you-may-have-missed-what-makes-a-great-boss.aspx]. It'd be redundant for me to give my own opinions, in this case.
 

Zera

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Bongo Bill said:
N'Gai Croal said it right [http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/10/08/things-you-may-have-missed-what-makes-a-great-boss.aspx]. It'd be redundant for me to give my own opinions, in this case.
Talking about final bosses here just to be clear(hey that rhymned).Interesting articles though. Didnt like there Nintendo comment part though...
 

Katana314

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So many final bosses suck now. In fact, so many bosses suck now. Partially because we've sort of moved away from the gameplay styles that make them work well.

I do kind of like to look at final bosses from a plot point of view, and everything that leads up to them. One of my favorite lead-ups to a boss is Ocarina of Time. If there weren't a million web posts about Ganon, then you would be utterly surprised, after what would seem to be the ending of the game, to see Ganondorf rise from the rubble...not even speak a word (because god knows whatever it would be would ruin the moment), hold the triforce in your face, then turn into Ganon. Watching the YouTube vid over again of Ganon's opening, for its graphical time, everything is perfect; the camera has a worms-eye view to dwarf you, while all you can see is the silhouette of his eyes. The lightning is something SO many games have forgotten, and makes him seem much more fearsome.

Then, right off the bat, it's good to make the player lose his empowerment of "Yeah I can beat this *****" mainly by having the boss instantly pummel you. Ganon does this by disarming Link with one swipe of his massive daggers.

Another thing I liked about the fight is that so much of the time, you're still looking UP at Ganon, and he's still just a silhouette from the darkness. It's maintaining that feeling you get when you first saw him.

Another big part is music. I don't even think it's an understatement to say that music is 3/4ths of the mood in a boss fight. When you root through the soundtrack of a game, normally the first song you look for is the one used for the final boss. So many people still love FFVII's boss music.

There's a lot more I could say about bosses, especially my favorite boss music, but I'm not gonna bother right now.
 

Zera

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One of my favorite battles was the final one in Sonic Adventure 2(yeah I know Sonic 3D=teh suck). It was the battle in space against the Finalhazard( a giant lizard that fused with the ARK). I loved the music Live & Learn(cheesy as it is), your frinds and allies supporting you, and the fact that you only have 5 minutes to defeat it before it crashes into earth. The battle was tough to boot(the first time anyways). That was a pretty cool battle.
 

Katana314

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Even though it got like 70's, I also kinda liked that game. To me, though, the VERY final boss was just a bit too happy-go-lucky, and I preferred the one just before; Biohazard, aka in Japan: Resident Evil lol!)

To those who don't get the joke: Biohazard is the Japanese name for Resident Evil.
 

Zera

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I love the Biohazard music too. Now thats great final boss music, too bad it wasnt
 

Grenbalta

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The problem with "Final Boss" in most games is that there is no challenge. I was highly disappointed by Neverwinter Nights because the boss in all 3 expansions was a push-over. Best Boss fight I ever had was "Chaos" from Final Fantasy. Not 2 or 3 or whatever... but one. There was a good chance right in the beginning he would fry your whole party in one hit. That is a fight. Now its all about patterns or an invincible god that can be brought low by a rusty dagger that can hardly kill a goblin, but hey this god boss is highly vulnerable to lock-jaw so why not.
 

Katana314

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The key word is 'challenging'. Not 'frustrating' or just 'hard' but CHALLENGING. Challenging means that you can die a million times fighting them, and not care because they're still fun. Most of the best boss fights I've had always kept you on your toes by making you press a million buttons to dodge attacks; and yet it still wasn't half-impossible.
 

LordOmnit

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I doubt that anyone has actually heard of Phantom Brave, much less played it, but the final boss fight in that game was quite splendid. The actual final stage consisted of two battles back to back, wherein the first is kinda hard, but not impossible. The real final battle, though, is murderous. The first time you play it, you will probably laugh your ass off at how easily you are decimated, but if you have actually played the game up until that point (it's an SRPG, so many people would have quit long before that) you will see it as a challenge and keep plugging at it from different angles until you finally get it right, and even then, if you continue to the post game by saving on a different slot to try and fight the final battle again with your original save, you will most likely not be able to actually win it again very easily, even though you beat it once before. In my opinion, the music (Violent Emotion) is killer, and sets the mood quite well for the battle.
 

LyonLee

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Personally, I enjoyed Super Mario RPG, also ditto to the sentiment regarding Chaos in FFI.
Am I the only one who thinks that the best endings come from RPGs?
Have there been any games (not RPG) with good endings that I've missed?
 

ccesarano

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So many people still love FFVII's boss music.
Yeah, but Dancing Mad, the final boss music from FF6, was so much better. In fact, Nobuo Uematsu has yet to top the score made for FF6, which is fitting as it is the best FF ever made and the last one made that doesn't basically turn everything into anime archetypes.

As for final bosses, they go hand in hand with my distaste for video game endings. They are usually disappointing. It simply feels as if they make another boss, they just take a LITTLE more to take down, though not much. This coupled with the fact that most endings are just something short or simple makes me feel disappointed with the end of the game.

Bioshock, for example, had a disappointing final boss, and then it felt as if the ending was just swiftly put together. Not only that, but the "good" ending was just too happy for the game. While the "good" ending should've been positive, yeah, it should have also been dark and sad. I know the perfect way to have ended the game, really, but they went with "y'know, let's just have the stereotypically happy ending". PAH!

Gears of War, the final boss was only really hard if you fought him on the Insane difficulty. Anything less than that and he was pathetic. Not only that, but the game could've used a whole other level, so the ending was not satisfying because I wanted more. I also can't stand any kind of boss fight that is solved simply by pumping lead into them (and yes, there ARE other options for shooters).

Though Halo 2 and Halo 3 lacked a truly satisfying ending, the original Halo had a great one. There really was no final boss, but the atmosphere and execution was excellent. You return to the same ship you started on, only now it is ruined and decayed. It gives you more of the feeling that, yes, you HAVE been a long way, that you HAVE gone through such a journey. Not only that, but this vessel that saved your skin the first time now has to be blown up. After that, what do they do? Well, they start the ending sequence, only part of it is interactive. You go Hollywood by hopping into a Warthog and being forced to speed your way out. Even now I find the ending to Halo satisfying, because instead of putting this stuff into a cut scene, they put it into gameplay. In the end you crash into a wall and have to hoof it the rest of the way to your only chance of escape, enemy blasts coming at you from behind. Play this on Legendary, and you'll really feel the adrenaline as your shields go down in no time. Then, when the cut scene starts, you feel the same relaxed feeling as the hero does, sitting in his seat watching Halo explode. It makes the character's feelings your own, and from then on you watch the ending cut scene, understanding how the Master Chief feels, and...are left satisfied.

It's funny, because Halo's ending wasn't much, but it was more satisfying than most game endings I've ever experienced. Part of it is because, well, you actually played a good portion of the ending yourself. Instead of relying on a final boss, they decided to go with a more Hollywood approach and a new variant of the Metroid ending. In the end, it worked very well. In fact, it worked better than most JRPG endings did for me, as it feels like most JRPG's think "long cutscene means good ending!"....which it doesn't. It helps, certainly, but it doesn't make for a good ending.

So, what am I looking for in a final boss? Well, anything, just as long as it helps me feel like I'm part of the end of the game. Halo didn't even have a final boss, but it had a very satisfying ending. It had the build-up with it, too. I also look for more than just "shoot enemy, drop dead". If the final boss is nearly invincible, and I have to instead use the environment to kill them, then I get a more theatrical feel. If fighting this boss is different than fighting any other enemy in the game, then I feel as if I'm truly fighting the final boss. If your shooter has vehicles in the gameplay, then make the final boss huge and only beatable by using vehicles. If you're an RPG, do something like EarthBound, where you had to figure out that one of the most worthless abilities in the game, "Pray", is precisely what you needed to use in order to beat the game, bringing in a very climactic feel. In fact, EarthBound's ending is probably the best, most satisfying ending I can possibly think of in a video game, including the final boss.

In short, games need epic, and the final boss always ties in with the ending. If your final boss is disappointing, then so is your ending.
 

LordLocke

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I dunno. The problem with final boss battles is that they tend to fall apart in the scope of the game- for every awesome finale there's a dozen Super Mario-esque ends (The only Mario game that had a satisfactory final encounter was Yoshi's Island) or complete faceplants in terms of difficulty (y hallo thar Ganon) scope (So... the last boss fight of DMC3 is just Vergil? Again? Didn't I already tool that guy twice now? He isn't even doing anything new! Is he even trying anymore?) or both (I'm looking at you Sephiroth, Ultimecia, and ESPECIALLY Ozma. What a trilogy of stinkers the PSX-era finales were)

That said, a few stand-out battles come to mind.

Rapthorne- Dragon Quest 8- This one plays with you- before you can get to Rapthorne you first have to take out the barrier around him. Sounds easy enough, right? Not necessarily. You need all four characters to, on the same turn, use an item, to weaken it. That'd be easy enough, if it wasn't for the fact Rapthorne gets to mercilessly hammer you from inside his bubble, meaning that you have to balance buffing, healing, defense, and if everyone's free to act, using the staff to take another layer off his shield. From there, the battle's a little more cut-and-dried, but you have to make due with what resources you have left from breaking the barrier down. Thus, turtle up too much and take too long, and you'll be in awful shape for the real fight

It doesn't hurt that Rapthorne's theme is pure awesome. Not to mention you're running the fight from the back of a gigantic bird as the big meanie floats in the sky, looming over all you've worked to save. Not a bad touch.


Meta Knight- Kirby Super Star- While 'technically' just the final boss of one of the sub-games, it's probably enough for me to count this guy. This is one of those instances where pure style counts for a lot- many bosses force you to fight on their terms, but Meta-Knight took it a step farther- he'll just stand there and ignore your pink puffball self until you grab that sword embedded in the center of the room- at which point he's leap into action with all kinds of furious, frenzied sword-on-sword attacks that'll make you wish you hadn't...

... but wait. While seeking an honorable fight, Meta Knight isn't the most patient fellow around. Stand around for a couple minutes like a buffoon, and the masked fighter will say 'enough' and lay into you anyways for being such a git. It's little touches like that which can really shape a final encounter. It doesn't hurt that he's one of the more varied bosses in Super Star- one of the few that doesn't fall into short, simple patterns and has enough different attacks (and willing to use them at nearly any time) to keep you guessing, sword-on-sword or not. Perhaps the only failing of this particular boss fight is that it didn't occur in a different Kirby game (at least with all the facets mentioned here- Meta Knight appears in most post-NES Kirby games, but is watered down in some way from this experience) since KSS had uber-Kirby, with block and partners and the ability to turn nearly any encounter into 'lol' with enough patience and game-breaking tactics that'd weaken the threat the Knight possessed. But that's another story.


Dr Wily- pick a Mega Man game, any Mega Man game. Except 2- Well, it's cliche NOW, but let's not forget one of the earliest multi-stage boss encounters, riding out in some contraption that'll put the Blue Bomber's dodging abilities to the test as he desperately tears through his arsenal of looted powers looking for something that will actually work- and crossing his fingers that it's this weapon and not THAT one. Sometimes it's an awesome weapon that you'd like to use anyways, like the Pharaoh Shot. Sometimes it's one you'd rather not, like the Flame Sword. And sometimes the game punches you in the gut and makes you use the Bubble Lead or Top Spin. But these fast, frantic encounters of trial and error under extremely adverse situations remain a hallmark of the aging series. Also see- Sigma, Mega Man X series.


Dizzy- Guilty Gear X- Fighting game bosses haven't had a terribly great representative since ol' M.Bison (Original or SFA3 version) and Geese Howard. With Capcom's later entrants being 'meh', and SNK ruining theirs to the infamous SNK Boss Syndrome (AKA all of your quarters belong to us as Rugal demolishes a 3-man team in record time), Guilty Gear threw us something different with the first of the X incarnations. A sweet, gentle girl. A sweet gentle girl who, once spurred into action, could fill the screen with multitudes of projectiles, had an abusive assortment of supers, and was generally good at making you fight for every second of the round to stay alive, regardless of position or character. All of which delivered with a rather unique personality and charm, not just for fighting game bosses, but final bosses period.

More as they come to mind...

(This'd be a whole lot easier if non-boss enemies could be mentioned- there were a lot of good bosses in the Devil May Cry and God of War games, for example, but between five titles, there isn't ONE likable final fight between the lot of 'em.)
 

Vnonymous

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The best bosses I've seen have been:

The Transcendent One : Self-explanatory. This does everything right, is fantastically written, and is absolutely brilliant in every single way.

Bob Page : Not really a boss, but still deserves to go here. An amazing conclusion to an amazing game.

Dr. Weil : The final, climactic battle, with brilliant music, stirring dialogue at the start, and a heroic sacrifice. Masterfully done.

Omega : Amazing twist, great difficulty, same as most of these bosses.

Shao Kahn : He's a badass, and looks awesome while being hilarious.
 

Zera

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Another favorite boss of mine would be Gill from Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike(you know, the greatest fighting game noone played besides Garou Mark of the Wolves). Probably because of the music which had a psychidelic sound to it(hence the name Psych Out for the BGM). Also was challenging but didnt suffered the SNK boss syndrome. Made it a lot more satisfying when I finally won. I just wished he interacted with the fighters more(besides beating the crap out of them).
 

ccesarano

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I forgot to mention Metal Arms: Glitch in the System, actually. The final boss was HARD. You couldn't dare to fight him head to head. You had to avoid him the entire time, exploding whatever surroundings you could and finding all the necessary computer chips to open up a hacking station. I think the only problem might have been there was one chip you HAD to buy from the merchants, but if you spent all your washers from before that battle you were S.O.L.

Even so, once you got all the chips into the hacking terminal, you took over the final boss and just started blowing everyone and everything up. It was really nice to defeat the final boss not by fighting him, but by being him. Very clever idea.
 

GrandBoy

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I think the music is rather critical in RPG's/MMORPG's for the atmosphere.I agree with the Guy who posted about Finalhazard who was rock hard and about its music.Final Fantasy 10's final bos was possibly the hugest let down ever.I have never been so dissapointed in the series. (excluding FFXII , boo!) In comparison, I loved fighting both Sephiroth and Ruby Weapon , former for in that I spent an entire night before learning how you actualy do kill him and Ruby in that ITS F'ING NIGH IMPOSSIBLE without KOTR.

A good method for music on the final boss (which applies for the games that have certain tunes that you associate that game with like Halo.) is to use that song, but remixed.This brings back fond memories of the beggining of the game and is a good technique.

Also the final boss is very effective if you have previously met him/her before, befriended them and stuff.

For the last boss, I want him to be hard, to own you whilst ironing , for you to laugh at the shear power that the boss is.The last boss is the LAST boss, it need's to stick with you for just that reason.A good boss leaves you feeling in such an adenaline fuled state that you chuck your pad/stick/Wii Remote at the wall without the burnt hole in your pocket ecause you need a replacement.THAT, my friends, is a boss.
 

Zera

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Another cool thing I would want in my final boss fight would be for the main character(s) and boss to exchange words during the battle. As in actual conversation, something like that anyways.