Valve Officially Condemns Steam Item Gambling

[Steven Bogos]

Valve Officially Condemns Steam Item Gambling

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Valve has distanced itself and condemned the rising trend of Steam item gambling.

Gambling with Steam items has become a big trend in competitive titles such as DoTA 2 and CS:GO. It essentially works by having players watching a competitive match "bet" items from their Steam inventory to a third party website. Betting and gambling on sports has been something that's been around as long as we have had sports and money, but today Valve has made it clear that gambling using its Steam item trading system is not OK.

"In 2011, we added a feature to Steam that enabled users to trade in-game items as a way to make it easier for people to get the items they wanted in games featuring in-game economies," stated Valve in a blog post [http://store.steampowered.com/news/22883/]. "Since then a number of gambling sites started leveraging the Steam trading system, and there's been some false assumptions about our involvement with these sites. We'd like to clarify that we have no business relationships with any of these sites."

It continued to condemn the whole practice, stating that "[Gambling] is not allowed by our API nor our user agreements. We are going to start sending notices to these sites requesting they cease operations through Steam, and further pursue the matter as necessary. Users should probably consider this information as they manage their in-game item inventory and trade activity."

This is a fairly big move from Valve. It could have simply blocked API access from these websites but with this public statement it makes it clear that this kind of activity will no longer be tolerated. I expect most of the major gambling sites to fall apart within the next few weeks.

Source: Valve [http://store.steampowered.com/news/22883/]

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[Neurotic Void Melody]

Ahh public condemnation statements. The equivalent of frowning disapprovingly while saying "naughty naughty, that is not good etiquette now, is it?" Then looking around to see if anybody else is doing anything about it, before finally tutting in disappointment and returning back to reading the newspaper.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

This is what they say. What they are thinking is:

"Well, since this whole thing blew up so big we're doing something about this. We really wish we didn't have to - anyone who's not completely stupid is aware we knew about gambling websites the entire time and let them do their shit because it was making us money (we even got sued but lmao who cares, loopholes in gambling laws are sweet), but now that a popular youtuber and reddit are on the case we don't have much of a choice. Remember when Gabe was enough to guarantee good publicity for the entire studio no matter what we did? Sigh, good old days. Anyway, because we're completely ham fisted when it comes to interacting with anything our community wants or does, we're going to drop our entire nuclear arsenal on this issue to make sure every single party involved - except us, of course - gets fucked in the ass. We've already got our two biggest dildos out of the drawer - one for the people who built up and invested in gambling websites with our go ahead, one for the people who used said gambling sites and now have to watch those sites run away with their deposits, some of which are worth several thousand dollars - so we really hope you enjoy getting fucked in the ass. Fuck you.

Oh, just a reminder: obviously we had absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY OF THIS. Just because we own, develop and oversee a game and massive service doesn't mean we have any responsibility for those two. We'd like to clarify the revenue received from people who use gambling websites to earn REEL MONEY while using our services - something we could have stopped at any time - through publicity and millions of people opening cases do not profit us in any way. None. No business relations and all that. What are you gonna do, sue us?

Your favourite ass fucking service,

Valve.

PS: Sorry for taking like a full week to respond to all the allegations, our entire team was busy working on something which is not Half Life."

Holy crap. And to think I thought I was filled with piss and vinegar. I tip my hat to you for that post, because it was a beautiful thing to read and the perfect summation of the entire debacle. Gamers are often a considered a group of people who dislike big business and faceless asshole corporations, but Valve have been bastards for a long time and everyone always gave them a pass. Even if this doesn't sink Valve (and honestly I don't think anything really could), it will at least deal them a big enough blow to wake some people up to their unrepentant douchebaggery.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Translation

"Quick! Gabe! Make hide the key money!"

Honestly how Valve's rep has SLIPPED HARD in recent years.

 

[Saelune]

Now if only they would do away with the whole heres a crate, buy a key BS. I'd love to open all mine, but I refuse to pay for what should be free things.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

If Valve was truly against gambling, then opening crates in TF2 or CS:GO wouldn't give you a random item with the small chance of getting a super valuable item. Because opening those crates is all a gamble.

OT: I don't actually understand why Valve is condemning Gambling, or why it's demanding Steam Gambling sites to de-link from Steam. Unless Professional Players were starting to rig the system in tandem with these Gambling Sites (Which, in all honesty, isn't impossible), Valve seems to simply be acting prudish, and considering certain games that Valve has allowed on Steam, they shouldn't be acting like prudes when it comes to Gambling.

 

[Leg End]

I'm still gambling with my friend mano a mano over show outcomes. And by gamble I mean lose terribly to.

Fite me Valve.

 

[meirol]

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

That's the Valve way of business practices. They'll do what needs to be done, but not a single thing more.

 

[thewatergamer]

Yeah! I mean before they were driving tons and tons of money for us BUT NOW THAT SOMEONE GOT CAUGHT? "Oh its so horrible!"

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

And even then it only took a lawsuit for them to pull their fingers from their asses. Typical Valve.

Yeah! I mean before they were driving tons and tons of money for us BUT NOW THAT SOMEONE GOT CAUGHT? "Oh its so horrible!"

I don't care about Valve's involvement, to them it was likely just an experiment. Whatever revenue that Valve saw from that 2-3 billion business was probably chump change compared to other things they have going on.

Snip

The statement given by Valve states that they received no money from such sites, which I'm sure in the literal "handing over wads of cash" sense is true.

I guess you could argue that such sites encouraged users to buy stuff to gamble, but even then the influence is hardly something that could be measured. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they benefited from such sites, but as has been said it was probably chump change, and probably not something a court could hold them accountable for.

(Probably. I ain't really a lawyer)

 

[Areloch]

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

And even then it only took a lawsuit for them to pull their fingers from their asses. Typical Valve.

Yeah! I mean before they were driving tons and tons of money for us BUT NOW THAT SOMEONE GOT CAUGHT? "Oh its so horrible!"

I don't care about Valve's involvement, to them it was likely just an experiment. Whatever revenue that Valve saw from that 2-3 billion business was probably chump change compared to other things they have going on.

Snip

The statement given by Valve states that they received no money from such sites, which I'm sure in the literal "handing over wads of cash" sense is true.

I guess you could argue that such sites encouraged users to buy stuff to gamble, but even then the influence is hardly something that could be measured. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they benefited from such sites, but as has been said it was probably chump change, and probably not something a court could hold them accountable for.

(Probably. I ain't really a lawyer)

See, what baffles me about the whole 'Well, they got money indirectly!' thing, is by that logic, anything that could ostensibly be tied to a crime shouldn't be sold, because criminals buy them too to do illegal stuff.

Can't sell guns, because criminals may use them to hold up people or banks, so the gun company indirectly earned money from crime.
Can't sell cars, because criminals may use them to escape the scene of a crime, do a hit and run, etc, so the car company indirectly earned money from the crime.

The entire point of legal culpability is proving they directly had a hand in the illegal activities. Merely providing a product to anyone, and some people use to do questionable/illegal activity isn't in and of itself enough.

That, and if loot crates are gambling, then card game packs are gambling too. And I don't see any calls to throw Magic the Gathering, Yu Gi Oh, etc into the fire for 'encouraging children to gamble'.

Mind, I think loot crates are stupid, but calling them gambling feels like a bit of a reach.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ahh public condemnation statements. The equivalent of frowning disapprovingly while saying "naughty naughty, that is not good etiquette now, is it?" Then looking around to see if anybody else is doing anything about it, before finally tutting in disappointment and returning back to reading the newspaper.

But Valve's hands-off nature is a feature, not a bug!

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

See, what baffles me about the whole 'Well, they got money indirectly!' thing, is by that logic, anything that could ostensibly be tied to a crime shouldn't be sold, because criminals buy them too to do illegal stuff.

Can't sell guns, because criminals may use them to hold up people or banks, so the gun company indirectly earned money from crime.
Can't sell cars, because criminals may use them to escape the scene of a crime, do a hit and run, etc, so the car company indirectly earned money from the crime.

The entire point of legal culpability is proving they directly had a hand in the illegal activities. Merely providing a product to anyone, and some people use to do questionable/illegal activity isn't in and of itself enough.

I do think there's a point to be made that if you know your goods are being used for illegitimate means you should do something about it... but like you said it's probably not something you can be held legally liable for.

That, and if loot crates are gambling, then card game packs are gambling too. And I don't see any calls to throw Magic the Gathering, Yu Gi Oh, etc into the fire for 'encouraging children to gamble'.

Mind, I think loot crates are stupid, but calling them gambling feels like a bit of a reach.

From my understanding, the loophole is that as long as you're not putting money on the table, it's not strictly gambling (Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong guys). That and Trading cards, digital crates and whatnot DO give you something, even if it's a roll of the dice. I do still think it's borderline gambling, though it's far less insidious and the company can always say "Hey, you got what you paid for".

 

[Aeshi]

I was gonna post something, but between WhiteWolf's tirade and several other people pointing out the hypocrisy of Valve, the company that basically pioneered the "Pay for a (key to a) Lootbox with random contents!" system condemning gambling any comment I could make has already been made.

 

[Areloch]

See, what baffles me about the whole 'Well, they got money indirectly!' thing, is by that logic, anything that could ostensibly be tied to a crime shouldn't be sold, because criminals buy them too to do illegal stuff.

Can't sell guns, because criminals may use them to hold up people or banks, so the gun company indirectly earned money from crime.
Can't sell cars, because criminals may use them to escape the scene of a crime, do a hit and run, etc, so the car company indirectly earned money from the crime.

The entire point of legal culpability is proving they directly had a hand in the illegal activities. Merely providing a product to anyone, and some people use to do questionable/illegal activity isn't in and of itself enough.

I do think there's a point to be made that if you know your goods are being used for illegitimate means you should do something about it... but like you said it's probably not something you can be held legally liable for.

I'm not expressly versed in how the third party skins market works, admittedly, so I'm not exactly sure what steps they can take to do something about it. But you're right, if there is some feasible remedy, then they really probably should do it.

That, and if loot crates are gambling, then card game packs are gambling too. And I don't see any calls to throw Magic the Gathering, Yu Gi Oh, etc into the fire for 'encouraging children to gamble'.

Mind, I think loot crates are stupid, but calling them gambling feels like a bit of a reach.

From my understanding, the loophole is that as long as you're not putting money on the table, it's not strictly gambling (Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong guys). That and Trading cards, digital crates and whatnot DO give you something, even if it's a roll of the dice. I do still think it's borderline gambling, though it's far less insidious and the company can always say "Hey, you got what you paid for".

Yeah, I mean, you could definitely say that card packs are a form of gambling, and probably wouldn't really be wrong. It just strikes me as bizarre that there's a double standard. Digital loot crates are a form of gambling and we right now have a ton of people flipping out about it and basically have been since it was thrown in TF2, but I don't think I've ever seen a peep about how terrible the exact same system is in action for CCGs.

 

[Neverhoodian]

So this means Valve will abandon their skeevy crate system, right? Right???

snip

Here, you earned this:

Spoiler

Gamers are often a considered a group of people who dislike big business and faceless asshole corporations, but Valve have been bastards for a long time and everyone always gave them a pass. Even if this doesn't sink Valve (and honestly I don't think anything really could), it will at least deal them a big enough blow to wake some people up to their unrepentant douchebaggery.

I'd like to think I saw this coming long ago. As an avid TF2 player, I've had a front row seat as Valve unabashedly turned the game into a twisted test subject for their shadier practices.[footnote]I can hear the groans of "Neverhoodians' bitching about TF2 again."[/footnote] It's like the proverbial canary in the coal mine, complete with actual canary:

Needless to say, I haven't thought very highly of the "praise Gaben" brigade for quite some time.