valve still the king?

[the_dramatica]

Valve has a long history of being amazing, such as gabes quotes: "piracy is our problem." And "i read all my emails."

But lately, its harder to be impressed. I dont know all the details since valve can sue companies that release information, but they charge a rumored 30% of all profits. Supposedly you get more than that back in sales, but thats due something called monopolization.

So where is this 30%, anti developer fee going? Not into the steam platform, where you have to pay money for social options worse than many free platforms. Its not on the forums, where a potentially thriving community is denied existance and rules are so strict that not even developrs bother with it. Its not in game development, because free indie games and mods(such as ultimate apocolypse) get updated more oftenwith changes the consumers actually want instead of rolling some dice to see what content will have more rng added to it.

So whats to be impressed with? Valvebox? Rofl.

 

[Zhukov]

Eh, they haven't really done much of late.

Not that they need to from a business perspective. They can just sit back and watch the sweet Steam cash role in. Kinda makes me wonder what their programmers and artists do all day.

If they're the king then their one of those aging fat kings who drink a lot and slouch on the throne.

Wasn't their next big venture supposed to be some kind of PC/console hybrid... thing? I haven't been following it at all.

 

[SolidState]

Wasn't their next big venture supposed to be some kind of PC/console hybrid... thing? I haven't been following it at all.

You mean Steam Machines? Those are not doing too good:

 

[DrownedAmmet]

When was Valve ever king, I don't remember voting for them?

Actually maybe king is a good analogy, they did some awesome shit in the past (Half-life 1, Portal, Steam) but seem content to rest on their laurels for the rest of eternity

 

[s0denone]

Valve own Steam which is by far the biggest digital platform for PC game purchasing. They don't have to care about anything before they are challenged, which may very well not happen for many years.

 

[Fox12]

When was Valve ever king, I don't remember voting for them?

Actually maybe king is a good analogy, they did some awesome shit in the past (Half-life 1, Portal, Steam) but seem content to rest on their laurels for the rest of eternity

So they're king Robert? Once glorious, but now fat and complacent?

OT: CD Project Red has my respect, Atlus has my money, and From Software has both. There are plenty of developers and publishers that are better then Valve.

 

[Ender910_v1legacy]

The new Steam Controllers are pretty awesome from what I understand. Well designed, U.S. manufactured, and fairly configurable. Other than for that, the Vive(VR), and Valve's involvement with Vulkan, it's pretty much business as usual. Oh and the Steam machines, but I've not paid much attention to them.

 

[sXeth]

Valve own Steam which is by far the biggest digital platform for PC game purchasing. They don't have to care about anything before they are challenged, which may very well not happen for many years.

I dunno, GOG/CPR seem to be making a relatively rapid ascent on them.
Amazon isn't entirely outside the race either

 

[s0denone]

I dunno, GOG/CPR seem to be making a relatively rapid ascent on them.
Amazon isn't entirely outside the race either

I wish. GOG is an awesome service.

But they are not making a "rapid ascent". They are far, far, far, far, far from Steams current marketshare.

 

[Maximum Bert]

They still have a tight hold on PC gaming unfortunately if that is what you mean. As for having customer friendly quotes well anyone can make those unfortunately it seems Valve fails all to often in the delivering part from the many reports of poor customer service I have heard.

Honestly they hit the jackpot besides HL and its sequel I dont think they have really made anything all the way they just pick up mods or enetrprising small projects that they think look good. Its almost as if they have zero creativity or more likely no impetus to do anything since they are making a killing with Steam which I have always said and continue to believe is not a consumer friendly service. I try and stay off it as its a bit insidious imo.

I am undecided on the Vive as I dont know much about it but it could be good. The controllers and even more the steam machines just seem largely pointless. I have tried the controller for a few hours its fine but its no substitute for a keyboard and mouse for those games that need it and those that dont well I already have other controllers I find much more comfortable. As for Steam machines that is just a trainwreck everyone could see happening except valve apparently.

As you can tell I am not a fan of them hardly the worst company ever but definitely not a decent one either imo. They got steam going at the right time and managed to lock people into their service. I dont know how much the cream off the top but I can imagine it wont be meagre since they have such a huge market share they can largely name their price.

I tend to buy straight from the devs when possible especially for indie games if not I will go to GOG because I agree more with their policies but there is no king as far as I am concerned. On PC I would like as much freedom as possible in my purchasing decisions.

 

[Vigormortis]

But lately, its harder to be impressed. I dont know all the details since valve can sue companies that release information

"I don't know all the details"
"Here's an uninformed judgement on the matter."

Uh huh. Sure thing. Please, tell me more.

, but they charge a rumored 30% of all profits. Supposedly you get more than that back in sales, but thats due something called monopolization.

That 30% isn't a rumor. Never has been. And it's not a blanket 30% across the board. (and it's not on "profits". your use of the term is out of place here)

As for sales: Steam's market share is only a small part of the reason for the profits developers see from sales. It is also due to clever marketing and the vastly increased sales numbers.

Also: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

That other[/i] platforms and services exist negates the notion that Steam is a monopoly.

So where is this 30%, anti developer fee going?

"anti-developer fee" That's a good one! Mind if I use that at my next party?

Not into the steam platform,

Oh? You know this for a fact? How does Valve pay for their server farm hosting and maintenance? Magic and pixie dust?

where you have to pay money for social options worse than many free platforms.

What the hell are you talking about? Backgrounds? You know you can get those for free, right? And Steam skins are still a thing. Do you even use Steam? Maybe you're confusing it with Xbox Live or something.

Its not on the forums, where a potentially thriving community is denied existance and rules are so strict that not even developrs bother with it.

Uh...what? Which forums? Steam has two primary forums (four, if we count the dev and VR forums), both of which are active. And the rules are less strict than the rules in place here at the Escapist forums. You don't seem to be complaining about those.

Its not in game development, because free indie games and mods(such as ultimate apocolypse) get updated more oftenwith changes the consumers actually want instead of rolling some dice to see what content will have more rng added to it.

Again...what the hell are you talking about? Valve just recently released several major updates to Dota 2, TF2, and CS:GO. Dota 2 in particular has received very frequent, and large, updates over the last few months.

And since they're usually very secretive about what games they're developing (and they do have projects in active development. the JIRA and other leaks exposed that much.) how can you assert that they aren't?

So whats to be impressed with? Valvebox? Rofl.

What the hell's a "Valvebox"? Haven't heard of such a thing.

A Steambox, however, I have heard of. And it seems to be doing fine. Though, the Steam Controller and Steam Link are doing better, supposedly.

Why are you looking for something to be impressed about? They're not out to impress you. They're out to do what they want to do. And in this case, what they want to do is make VR and a more unified PC gaming experience a reality, and they want to help grow and expand e-sports.

Given their efforts with the Vive, Lighthouse, Chaperone, Steam Machines, Vulkan, Steam Controller, Dota 2, CS:GO, etc, I'd say they're off to a good start.

I mean, fuck's sake, if you're gonna try to criticize the company, at least try to put a little effort into it. There are many things to criticize them for. Many, MANY things. You've missed them all and instead went with a lot of nonsense.

 

[Dragonbums]

I don't think they were ever the King of gaming to begin with. And that's not to say they were bad developers. They just made really high quality and polished games.
Most of the time though, it's easy to forget that they at least keep up with maintaining their games.

 

[s0denone]

where you have to pay money for social options worse than many free platforms.

What the hell are you talking about? Backgrounds? You know you can get those for free, right? And Steam skins are still a thing. Do you even use Steam? Maybe you're confusing it with Xbox Live or something.

He is talking about the need to spend money in the steam store in order to use social options (such as friendlist) on your profile. It started off as being "You have to have bought a game on steam" and went to "you have to spend $5 on steam, be it by depositing to your steam wallet or buying a game" - maybe it is lowered yet again? I don't know, but I know there still is some kind of paywall, however insignificant.

Why are you looking for something to be impressed about? They're not out to impress you. They're out to do what they want to do. And in this case, what they want to do is make VR and a more unified PC gaming experience a reality, and they want to help grow and expand e-sports.

No. The chief thing that Valve wants to do is make money - and they are making a shitton of it.

Saying "DotA 2/CS:GO/Whatever get frequent updates" as a response to the question "Where is all the money going? It doesn't look like they're developing anything" is extremely misguided. Besides the model changes that happen very infrequently, the fact is that implementing the balance changes in a given patch could be done by a single coder in quite literally an afternoon at the maximum. It is number tweaking and requires next to no resources or effort. Reaching consensus on balance changes within their development teams is another matter, but not quite a 100 million dollar matter either.

The fact is that most of the money is going in Valves pocket - and that is alright. I like Steam, though the "Offline" mode has been annoying a few times in the past. It is DRM-lite, but I can live with it.

You're making a mistake if you're thinking Valve and Steam are somehow "Paragons of the Virtues of PC Gaming and ESports". They are a company like any other.
That should be extremely evident when you actually realise that their primary reason for constant updates to their games, is the tidal wave of new cosmetics coming with each one; every update lining their pocket further.

 

[Fijiman]

Eh, they haven't really done much of late.

Not that they need to from a business perspective. They can just sit back and watch the sweet Steam cash role in. Kinda makes me wonder what their programmers and artists do all day.

The artist were all probably moved to the hat department and the programmer probably just try to make sure Steam doesn't suddenly implode on itself.

 

[Erttheking]

When was Valve ever king, I don't remember voting for them?

Well they wouldn't be a king if you did eh? Eh?...Ok I'll go stand in the corner now.

OT: Jokes aside, I agree with Ammet. Portal was pretty damn good, and TF2 is decent but Counter-Strike, Left 4 Dead and Half-Life were just "Ok" for me and as for DOTA 2 I could never really get into it, doubly so now that MOBAs have lost their appeal to me. Now the fact that they haven't really been releasing anything makes me wonder what the hell they're doing.

 

[Vigormortis]

He is talking about the need to spend money in the steam store in order to use social options (such as friendlist) on your profile. It started off as being "You have to have bought a game on steam" and went to "you have to spend $5 on steam, be it by depositing to your steam wallet or buying a game" - maybe it is lowered yet again? I don't know, but I know there still is some kind of paywall, however insignificant.

You can actually have a friends list. Your friends have to add you rather than you sending the invites. That's the only stipulation.

You are unable to add friends on a new, free account because it helps prevent some of the rampant phishing and scamming attempts. Since it costs nothing to create an account it would otherwise take almost nothing to just spam new accounts and use them to phish for other accounts.

Otherwise, many of the other community features are available. (sans uploading to the Workshop or Market and starting group chats)

No. The chief thing that Valve wants to do is make money - and they are making a shitton of it.

That doesn't invalidate my prior statement. Every company wants to make money. That's how they stay in business and pay their employees.

Saying "DotA 2/CS:GO/Whatever get frequent updates" as a response to the question "Where is all the money going? It doesn't look like they're developing anything" is extremely misguided.

A: I didn't say the money was only going to updating their more popular games. I mentioned maintenance of the Steam network, VR development, etc.

B: How is it misguided if they actively are developing big content updates to those games? It takes money to produce that content.

Besides the model changes that happen very infrequently, the fact is that implementing the balance changes in a given patch could be done by a single coder in quite literally an afternoon at the maximum. It is number tweaking and requires next to no resources or effort. Reaching consensus on balance changes within their development teams is another matter, but not quite a 100 million dollar matter either.

Model changes and balancing? You know they've done a LOT more than that with the myriad of updates that have been releasing, right? Even from just the last few months.

I never said it cost $100 million to produce these updates. And for all you know they don't even have that much to just blow on some random project. Again, we don't actually know what funds they have.

But, even if they did have that much to spend on a project, it still doesn't invalidate my prior point.

The fact is that most of the money is going in Valves pocket

And game development. And VR. And content updates. And event hosting. And comic production. And publishing. And server hosting. Etc. Etc.

though the "Offline" mode has been annoying a few times in the past.

Dear god was it ever... It was an atrocious oversight for them to have had such a terrible bug in the platform for so long. Thankfully they finally fixed it but, damn, it took 'em long enough.

You're making a mistake if you're thinking Valve and Steam are somehow "Paragons of the Virtues of PC Gaming and ESports".

I never said they were. I never even implied such a thing. I don't even think someone should even make such a claim lest they sound like a tool. I only said they were attempting to help expand and 'legitimize' e-sports.

They are a company like any other.

Mmm, not really. They're power structure is somewhat unique. That no one but Gabe Newell (and maybe a handful of others) have any official positions or titles is not a common management structure. The only time anyone would be considered "in charge" is if that person has taken the lead on a specific project. And, even then, only if everyone else turns to that person as the lead.

Otherwise, sure. They're a company like any other in that they want to produce a product people want to buy so that they get the funds to support the company and their employees.

That should be extremely evident when you actually realise that their primary reason for constant updates to their games, is the tidal wave of new cosmetics coming with each one; every update lining their pocket further.

I never said they produced the updates 'out of the kindness of their hearts'. I only said they clearly spend some of their money on producing them.

Besides, how can you say, "They don't spend money on updates" while also saying, "They produce updates to make money"?

Since it costs money to produce those updates, your claims seem contradictory.

 

[Something Amyss]

A lot of Valve being "Amazing" was their marketing. That people are no longer buying it is a good thing from a consumer standpoint.

 

[Bombiz]

I dunno, GOG/CPR seem to be making a relatively rapid ascent on them.

I tend to buy straight from the devs when possible especially for indie games if not I will go to GOG because I agree more with their policies but there is no king as far as I am concerned. On PC I would like as much freedom as possible in my purchasing decisions.

A quick note about GOG. while they are good they still sell the occasional broken game on their service. Examples include Warhammer Shadow of the horned rat and Star wars empire at war.

 

[sXeth]

I dunno, GOG/CPR seem to be making a relatively rapid ascent on them.
Amazon isn't entirely outside the race either

I wish. GOG is an awesome service.

But they are not making a "rapid ascent". They are far, far, far, far, far from Steams current marketshare.

They're eight years old, and only in the last two of those have they started to get out of their marketing niche and start trying to compete as more general games seller. Sure, they're not hammering down the gates or anything, but they make a respectable showing. Back in 2005, no one thought Steam was going to work either (They were at that point, only starting to get a few mid-level publishers on board finally).

 

[the_dramatica]

I don't mean to quote in a rude manner, but i've limited time(I actually do today, people just like to say this to appear elite). Please excuse the misquotations as well, a bad habit from another board which combines a quote with it's implications. I'll probably get a warning for this, but I wanna pump it out.

snip

"If a company has zero transparency, all criticism against them is void."
No sir. Valve couldn't even release numbers and then poop on speculators because we are consumers forced to assume the worst.

"The 30% rumor doesn't exist. Never has."
But you're wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Valve-Corporation-1/What-percentage-does-Steam-keep-from-sales

One guy says the MINIMUM is 30%, and he's an indie dev.

"Services like origin and uplay aren't denied many opportunities due to competition from steam."
Companies make their own drm just to save on costs from going to steam, their platforms don't even begin to compete with the amount of options steam has.


On the paid social services, things like images, more info, limited space and unadjustable boxes, all of which cost money or lots of time, and are worse than free services, such as square space(not exactly string free itself). I don't expect to be blown away in this department, but absolutely nothing here is impressive for a paid service.

On the forums, all of them. Every steam community is underwhelming, especially the official forums, which i'm not even gonna bother talking about. The devs clearly don't use forums so they don't know what they can improve on, but communities are treated more as quarantines than places where they can grow and develop. Imagine if the steam hubs elected users to host group events or even had small competitions in order to keep a community alive. Oh wait, that's an insane idea because Valve isn't a billion dollar company with a vast majority of the pc gaming market hostage. In reality, we get to see valves elegance in keeping games like natural selection 2 and strike vector alive and healthy, something that could be done very easily.

"the updates to their three titles are exceptional."
CS:GO, after a few months of dead silence, got a single pistol and added more rng to the game which nobody asked for. Remember all those people who make suggestions to the meta and want more rapid testing? Well valve doesn't because they proved they havn't given a darn about them since their existence, and with at least 20,000 daily costumers(500,000 daily players) and 64 tick servers to reduce cost that's not impressive. The mod I referenced, ultimate apocolypse, does in fact update faster, with more content, and more balance consideration, for free.

Dota 2 is a bit exceptional, although they also prefer rng to situational randomness.

Tf2 is competing in the world Olympics with ignoring it's community, with PRIVATE SERVICES such as esea fostering the competitive scene more than valve itself. Left 4 dead 2 is the same.