So I recently made a thread http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.304899-Im-a-terrible-person-sortof?page=1 and got a lot of hate from vegetarian people because I killed an animal. Getting called a terrible person for it doesn't bother me honestly I've heard worse but the fact that these select few vegetarians thought that they were better only for the fact that they don't kill animals is ridiculous. To get a few things straight
1. I know the difference between vegan and vegetarianism
2. I'm not saying every vegetarian thinks that they're better than everyone else
3. I'm not saying every person in that forum was a jerk about being a vegetarian and that some just didn't like that I killed a random animal.
But this is something that I have noticed not just on the Escapist but everywhere. Just because you decide to not eat meat doesn't make me a bad person. Animals eat animals all the time and it's a pretty normal thing. Overall it's unhealthy to do because the Human body needs more protein than what can be provided in nuts. If it's your choice to do that then it's fine but remember you aren't any better than anyone else just because you choose not to eat animals.
*rant over*
I can't be bothered to read the rest of the posts, but from what I understand is that you were killing those poor defenseless bunny rabbit because they were destroying your yard. they probably think it's a stupid reason to kill, I do as well (and I'm not vegetarian). aren't there repellents for critters, last time I checked peppermint extract works well at deterring them. It's not the superiority, it's the fact you were killing bunny rabbis with an underpowered gun that just caused tat one a whole crapload of pain.
edit: I read the first page and a half so I didn't just read the op and make complete and total assumptions
ps, sorry if this post isn't coherent, it's 2:30 and I can't sleep.
Well, see, the thing is that a lot of hardcore vegans/vegetarians just plain disagree on the "you're not a bad person" part. If not eating meat is an ethical choice for them, then yeah, they're going to think that you eating meat is wrong and that you're a bad person for doing so. I'm not going to bother going into detail about any of the actual arguments for not eating meat, but just know that they're often ethical ones. Think of not eating or eating meat as equivalent to the pro-life/pro-choice issue.
You will often find that the kind of vegetarian who goes out of his way to find an argument about vegetarianism online isnt exactly your average vegetarian, theyre the kind of person that goes out of their way to find something that makes them angry so they can valliantly fight against it and feel better about it afterwards.
I am a vegetarian, I dont feel superior for it. We have differing opinions regarding animal welfare, I personally find the needless killing of an animal (as described in your post) quite offensive, but so the fuck what? Im not going to change your mind by ranting at you on the internet, no more than if we start throwing each others releigious views in each others faces.
By all means I will debate the matter where appropriate, but at the end of the day its just differing opinions.
Basically, dont just base your opinio of vegetarians on the attention-seeking minority, just in the same way that a sensible person knows that athiests are not all the millitant "ban religion!" type.
EDIT: oh, and vegetarianis/veganism is not unhealthy if done CORRECTLY. yes a lot of people are stupid and end up unhealhy, but anyone who is actually wanting to do this properly will at least have a basic sense of health and nutrition.
It's far better to raise and kill your own animals than it is to go vegan.
As long as you use every part of the animal and respect it, there's no ethical problem.
Animals are not sentient. They don't understand the concept of Farming, or animal husbandry.
Fish feel pain, yes, but animals have NO CONCEPT OF THEIR OWN MORTALITY.
Very important point there.
I don't kill animals for fun, but I have a lot of respect for life too.
So i put to you this: Eating a diet consisting entirely of crops results in more animal deaths per calorie (Due to home destruction and the GIANT LAWNMOWER THAT IS THE COMBINE HARVESTER) than if you ate paddie raised beef (Which is raised on soil unfit for mass farming)
Sorry, had to.
I know 2 vegans and both of them have no kind of superiority complex at all, in fact I didn't know they were vegans until I noticed they never ate anything dairy and asked them.
Overall it's unhealthy to do because the Human body needs more protein than what can be provided in nuts. If it's your choice to do that then it's fine but remember you aren't any better than anyone else just because you choose not to eat animals.
you don't know much about the vegetarian diet or the actual nutritional values of much of the stuff vegetarins eat instead of meat do you?
soy-beans, quorn, soy-protein, these contain more than enough protein a human needs and if you really wanna go harcore there are several ways to get full valued protein by mixing things such as rice, bread or potatoes with chick peas, beans or other legume fruits.
OT: I'm gonna try this without comming of as a complete ass.
but yes I'm a vegetarian (or actually the real term should be Lacto-ovo-vegetarian since I drink milk and eat eggs, there are differences =P) and I'm very glad (proud? perhaps too strong a word) I am.
thing is it is a lesser choice to eat meat, try to stay with me this is not meant as an insult to any one.
today you can eat vegetarian food without it being much of a problem, it is easy to find interesting and good substitutes for meat that is way better for you and the enviorment (and obviously the animals)
for a more in-depth explenation of why it is in every way better to eat a vegeterian diet here is a previous post on the subject of vegetarian diet vs meat
why the hell would I skipp meat even though I actually loved eating it?
Well because I certainly love the planet I'm walking on more than the sensation of taste.
Now I'm not saying that vegetarian food is tasteless, it just requiers a hell of a lot more work to be as good as meat or better.
So what do I mean by my reason?
This is gonna be long, but if you wanna stand up for your choice of either diet you should know the basics of it:
The meat industry is vast, this most people know. for meat we need animals, animals need to eat, just as we do, and these animals eat crops. If you have had a basic course in biology you know that if this 'example cow' eats these crops 10 people could have eaten the energy you get out of eating the meat will sate the need for 1 person, first party consumer > second party consumer > third party consumer, and so on and so forth, for each party less energy will be given.
This will cause a huge impact on for example enviorment because of the energy needed for growing crops, transporting crops, processing them to fodder, and finally all this energy gets lost in the belly of a creature, that we no longe need to eat, and more energy goes to killing it, processing the meat and finally transporting that too.
And aside from that the current situation in modern society is that we on top of that eat waaaaaaaay too much meat than what is healthy for us, and the widely known fact that the money saving process of actually handling these animals are horrific and inhumane causing these still very feeling creatures alot of unecessary pain and terror that a lion or other predetor never could cause these animals.
So here it is:
Is it good for us humans?: at this current rate of meat consumption, no
Is it good for nature: no, the resources required for this industry taxes this planet beyond what it will be able to handle
Is it good for the animals?: no, these creatures do not have human feelings but terror and panic is very instinctive feelings every animal in our current industry is capable of feeling.
The only good thing meat has going for it is that it tastes good.
As for the slightly touched object of animal testing, ofc human life has to go in favour of the animal, but then it is more about saving lives, eating meat is not.
Besides animals breed for scientific purposes ar some of the most well treated animals in human society aside from our pets
Natrually we weren't made for todays modern world but, we were meant for hunting with our hands, to withstanding all kinds of elements without the comfort of preheated houses, the handicapped were supposed to die so they could not breed.
Even during the time when this was true for humans, meat was actually a rarity.
Today none of has to be true for any human, modern days allow us to live culinarily fullfilling lives, not having to prey on the meat of other animals.
For me, and that doesent necissarily mean you as well, meat is not a stable alternative.
Though I see no point in hating people who eat meat, because I can see why you choose to, meat is very very tastey and require very little preperation to be so. Like I can understand people who doesn't exercise and so on and so forth, comfort is a very hard thing to give up.
Trust me, I've tried to quit candy all together and I just can't, thought it would be like meat, but for me that challenge is different.
Whether you can or even want to quit meat is up to you and I do not judge your choice, but I want people to truly know their choice.
It is only when a human chooses what he will or will not do that it actually matters, a forced upon opinon will easily just fall for another.
But if people don't start to make more stable choices, the human race will see some rather dire consequenses, but that's what it's like with choices, you make them and take the consequenses that follow.
as previously mentioned it is a very ethical choice, and when you chose to eat meat it can be for some vegetarians/vegans like choosing to just sit back and watch someone get kicked over and over because it is the easier alternative than standing up to what is essentially wrong.
so, I'm not saying you are less of a person than me, perhaps less ethical, or perhaps just less willing to sacrifice for such a cause, but that doesn't make you a bad person, you just have another opinion than me, and people aren't bad or evil for their opinions, just stay a little more well informed about your choosen subject and arguments
"Short answer: being vegan just makes you better than most people."
Some people are vegans because they genuinely don't like that stuff, and that's fine. But others do it for fashion or whatever, they're the ones I have no time for.
Reading the thread it sounds like you've attracted a lot of rage simply because killing the rabbits doesn't seem necessary - couldn't you have put up chickenwire to keep them out, like one person suggested?
I wouldn't say vegetarianism/veganism is unhealthy as long as the diet is very carefully planned. Neither will most vegetarians just outright say they are better than you for not killing animals, although the most vocal generally will. If you make a thread stating how you needlessly shoot rabbits, and the OP implies your brother enjoyed it, then you can expect a fair bit of wrath. Not that it bothers me particularly.
I think I'd rather have a yard full of bunnies, than a yard full of angry vegetarians. I can see how culling rabbits can be seen as cruel, especially if it's not done 'humanely', especially if it's done by just anyone. I'm not hating on you, I'm just saying that taking matters into your own hands is not a good idea, there are people who are trained to deal with 'pests', going on a cull to save your yard is really just retarded. I mean, what's so special about your yard?
Where I live there are a lot of wild rabbits, I'll see half a dozen on my 10 minute walk to work every day. There's nobody feeling the need to cull them, anyone who did do anything to them would be considered a cruel bastard. I'm not a vegetarian, the way I see it steak is delicious for a reason, salads don't fill us up for a reason, and going against our established diet is not good for us. You don't have to be a vegetarian to protest against animal cruelty.
I was vegetarian for about 5 years, and what really struck me was this myth of steak being 'manly' and all vegetarians and vegans being effeminate, moralising degenerates.
You know, the usual 'go eat your rabbit food, while I eat my semi-rare like a real man' bullshit. Slightly off-topic, of course, but has anybody else noticed this?
as previously mentioned it is a very ethical choice, and when you chose to eat meat it can be for some vegetarians/vegans like choosing to just sit back and watch someone get kicked over and over because it is the easier alternative than standing up to what is essentially wrong.
so, I'm not saying you are less of a person than me, perhaps less ethical, or perhaps just less willing to sacrifice for such a cause, but that doesn't make you a bad person, you just have another opinion than me, and people aren't bad or evil for their opinions, just stay a little more well informed about your choosen subject and arguments
Time out. When did humanity as a whole decide that eating an animal/meat is wrong?
Considering the majority of the world are animal/meat eaters that would put vegans in the minority.
And sadly morality and ethics aren't decided by the minority.
So I fail to see how one can claim that choosing to be a vegetarian is a very ethical and or moral choice. You are in fact going against the standard that says it is ok to eat meat.
In this case it is more the person carrying their own moral flag, and suffice it to say you cannot claim to be more ethical or moral for your own personal morals because those morals do not apply to those around you, and they never should.
I think I'd rather have a yard full of bunnies, than a yard full of angry vegetarians. I can see how culling rabbits can be seen as cruel, especially if it's not done 'humanely', especially if it's done by just anyone. I'm not hating on you, I'm just saying that taking matters into your own hands is not a good idea, there are people who are trained to deal with 'pests', going on a cull to save your yard is really just retarded. I mean, what's so special about your yard?
Where I live there are a lot of wild rabbits, I'll see half a dozen on my 10 minute walk to work every day. There's nobody feeling the need to cull them, anyone who did do anything to them would be considered a cruel bastard. I'm not a vegetarian, the way I see it steak is delicious for a reason, salads don't fill us up for a reason, and going against our established diet is not good for us. You don't have to be a vegetarian to protest against animal cruelty.
Should try living in Aus (though i dont know were you live as you dont state it in your profile), it would be cruel NOT to cull them, considering the amount of native animals the rabbit destroys.
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