Villains and depth in videogames

[AnonymousTipster]

I've been trying to think of any video game villains or antagonists that are as terrifying and complex as villains from the literature like Iago, Judge Holden or Jason Compton. And I'm kind of hard pressed to think of any. Most game villains are either of the Terminator variety (single-minded, ruthless and almost impossibly strong) or are sort of cartoonish in the way they simply delight in being evil. Not to say that this is a terrible thing, as some of my favorite villains fall into the latter category (the Baron from Jak II, for example). But I'd like to see a bit more depth.

Andrew Ryan certainly has depth, but he doesn't exactly compare to Iago or Holden or Compton.

*preemptive eye-roll at anyone who would suggest Sephiroth or any MGS villain*

 

[Irridium]

Saren from Mass Effect is a pretty good one. Hell I wouldn't even call him a villain, he's an antagonist. An antagonist with a plan, a reason for doing what he's doing, and eventually realizes what he became.

Great antagonist.

Which is one reasons I was disappointed with ME2. We went from such a great antagonist like Saren to some race of bug-looking people.

I mean yeah, the Geth aren't exactly that great either, but they had Saren leading them. The Collectors just have some Reaper that you end up schooling dozens of times, completely removing any sense of danger and power he would have had.

 

[trooper6]

Kreia in KotOR 2 is very complex full of a lot of really complicated characters who are not easily called "good guys"--I'm thinking a Kreia and Atris specifically.

Loghaine in Dragon Age: Origins is also quite complicated.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

The difference between villain and antagonist is largely just semantics. Yes, you could technically have a character who is an antagonist (in opposition to the protagonist) and not a villain (as in, not intentionally doing wrong). Say for example you have a story in which a character is late for work and running to catch a bus, yet there's an old, confused man in his way who's blocking him from getting to the bus. That old man is an antagonist but not a villain. Though if you really want to get all deconstructive, you could make the argument that because of a narrative's perspective bias, an antagonist is automatically a villain.

Anyway, sorry for the pretentious sounding post but antagonist isn't a higher class of villain or inherently more complex.

To get back on topic I felt Saren's characterization was pretty weak.

 

[Toaster Hunter]

I'd have to say Logain from Dragon Age. He is the principle bad guy (other than the archdemon anyway), he may be insane, but he truly believes that he is doing what is best for his country, and you have to admire that, at least a little.

 

[Thaius]

I nominate Sephiroth!

Also, the Origami Killer from Heavy Rain. Seriously though, if anyone responds to this, do NOT post his identity. That simply cannot be spoiled.

 

[Popadoo]

Andrew 'Golf club to da' face' Ryan. He's my idol!

 

[WayOutThere]

What about Dr. Killjoy and Hermes T. Haight from The Suffering?

I'd explain why they're great villians but I'm lazy and I have to get back to studying soon anyway. Instead I'll just say, if you haven't already, to go play The Suffering. It's a great game.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

What about Dr. Killjoy and Hermes T. Haight from The Suffering?

I'd explain why they're great villians but I'm lazy and I have to get back to studying soon anyway. Instead I'll just say, if you haven't already, to go play The Suffering. It's a great game.

Never played The Suffering. Is that the one where you played as a convict in a prison? And you could turn into some kind of demon or something?

Would that game be hard to find?

 

[AnonymousTipster]

I'll take that preemptive eye roll and suggest Revolver Ocelot, Solidus Snake, The Boss, and to a lesser degree, Liquid Snake.

Ocelot and Solidus are basically extreme freedom fighters trying to save the world from a tyrannical force which the protagonists keep accidentally working for. Solidus especially comes off as basically a psycho libertarian in MGS 2 by proclaiming that his end game is to turn Manhattan into an independent republic desinged to protect individual rights. Ocelot was willing to destroy his own mind to lure the Patriots into destruction.

The Boss has more dedication to her ideals than any character in... anything. She sacrifices everything for her vision.

Liquid I think is slightly over rated as a villain, but he's still interesting.

Also, Dormin from Shadow of the Colossus. He's awesome.

I keep thinking of more. Dr. Cid and Vain from Final Fantasy 12 are actually very similar to Solidus and Ocelot in that they are trying to liberate humanity from a group of invisible, oppressive overlords who the protagonists accidentally work for.

I was never really captivated by any of the MGS villains. I suppose The Boss is the most fully realized/most complex of the lot, but all the same...

Found most of the other MGS villains to be too over the top to really take seriously.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Saren from Mass Effect is a pretty good one. Hell I wouldn't even call him a villain, he's an antagonist. An antagonist with a plan, a reason for doing what he's doing, and eventually realizes what he became.

Great antagonist.

Which is one reasons I was disappointed with ME2. We went from such a great antagonist like Saren to some race of bug-looking people.

I mean yeah, the Geth aren't exactly that great either, but they had Saren leading them. The Collectors just have some Reaper that you end up schooling dozens of times, completely removing any sense of danger and power he would have had.

I second this.

Spoiler

Especially if you talk him into killing himself.

It shows he was just trying to preserve civilization, but the situation went beyond his control.

 

[The Madman]

There was an amazing in-depth piece studying the motivations and depth of the villain SHODAN from System Shock 2 awhile back. So yes, video-game antagonist are just as capable of being complex and interesting as their literary and cinematic counterparts. It's just rare because so few games genuinely try! Why bother making a compelling villain when it's so much easier to just give players something else to shoot and more explosions to distract them?

Either way, give it a read if you're interested. It's called The Girl Who Wanted To Be God by Kierron Gillen, someone respectable enough to have a wikipedia page with their credentials if you're worried this is just another blog piece.

Damned fine read. Spoilers ahoy though, you've been warned!

 

[AnonymousTipster]

There was an amazing in-depth piece studying the motivations and depth of the villain SHODAN from System Shock 2 awhile back. So yes, video-game antagonist are just as capable of being complex and interesting as their literary and cinematic counterparts. It's just rare because so few games genuinely try! Why bother making a compelling villain when it's so much easier to just give players something else to shoot and more explosions to distract them?

Either way, give it a read if you're interested. It's called The Girl Who Wanted To Be God by Kierron Gillen, someone respectable enough to have a wikipedia page with their credentials if you're worried this is just another blog piece.

Damned fine read. Spoilers ahoy though, you've been warned!

Will def give that a read when I get the chance, thanks for posting that!

 

[Arisato-kun]

Saren from Mass Effect is a pretty good one. Hell I wouldn't even call him a villain, he's an antagonist. An antagonist with a plan, a reason for doing what he's doing, and eventually realizes what he became.

Great antagonist.

Which is one reasons I was disappointed with ME2. We went from such a great antagonist like Saren to some race of bug-looking people.

I mean yeah, the Geth aren't exactly that great either, but they had Saren leading them. The Collectors just have some Reaper that you end up schooling dozens of times, completely removing any sense of danger and power he would have had.

I have to agree with this. Saren was a fantastic antagonist.

I'm also going to nominate the murderer from Persona 4. I won't spoil his name. I consider him great because of his motivation and how he acts in such a way that you'd never even consider him as a possible suspect.

 

[WayOutThere]

Never played The Suffering. Is that the one where you played as a convict in a prison? And you could turn into some kind of demon or something?

yep

Would that game be hard to find?

I don't imagine so. Myself, I just found it at a local GameStop.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

Anyway I think the shallow villains problem essentially just stems from developers preferring a villain that's outwardly scary or badass over one with real substance as well as the general lack of really writing in video games.

 

[Meggiepants]

I don't think any good video game story is as good as good fiction. A book is written for the sole intention of telling a story. The story better be good. But a game is supposed to be a whole bunch of different things, so the story is going to suffer because of that.

I think some day, video games might be able to reach the level of depth of some great books. But games today, they just aren't there yet.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

I don't think any good video game story is as good as good fiction. A book is written for the sole intention of telling a story. The story better be good. But a game is supposed to be a whole bunch of different things, so the story is going to suffer because of that.

I think some day, video games might be able to reach the level of depth of some great books. But games today, they just aren't there yet.

To be fair, there are PLENTY of books with absolutely horrendous stories. Probably even more than there are games with horrendous stories, simply because books have been around for so much longer.

But I think the issue is that the greatest game stories can't really hold a candle to the greatest stories in fiction.

 

[Azure Knight-Zeo]

Copy X from the Mega Man Zero games. He wasn't oppressing for money or power, he was trying to help the humans find peace by sacrificing Reploids. And in the fourth game, when someone else takes over, you see that the human refuges saw him as a hero and that because of Zero's actions a new "evil overlord" has taken his place.