What about the queer female gamers?

[ryuutchi]

As glad as I am that the Escapist's topic this month focused on gays in the gaming community, I found it both interesting and a little depressing that "gays in gaming" apparently means "gay men in gaming". And beyond that, the focus on non-gender-normative male characters seems a little odd for the topic-- non-gender-normative men aren't necessarily gay (and I found Robert Yang's focus on "I'm not making you do girly things when you're being gay" a little off-putting because not only does it derogate gay men who like feminine activities, it derogates straight men, and women of all sexual orientations who do enjoy those activities.)

General critique over, what about the gay women? We're not represented either, except insofar as some guys want to watch two women make out (for the men's pleasure, natch, conventionally attractive women only, please). When do we get long-winded articles about the lack of representation?

 

[Aqualung]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

 

[RebelRising]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

Well, things work slightly differently for gay women, especially in media; it would be worth discussing one week or another.

 

[grimsprice]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

Bingo. Who cares if any of these groups actually exist? They're gamers and thats what matters.

 

[ryuutchi]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

I think you missed the point. Possibly you should check the front page of this website, where the articles for this month's issue are posted? The theme this month is about gays-- but only gay men, and I found that interesting and telling.

I think that, yes, making "threads" or discussing the issues of non-white, heterosexual men within the gaming community and games in general would be quite productive. Especially if the articles were as interesting and incisive as The Escapist's official articles usually are.

 

[cainx10a]

Not sure what to say here, as I'm relatively pissed at one aspect of this week article. Homosexuality in the gaming world seems to be a more touchy subject than race or non-whiteys as they are depicted in gaming. So, now that someone decided to bring gender to the table, let's dissect it this way, your favorite female lead, who was it? Lara Croft? Did she have any romance plot in her little adventures with a handsome male? NO, Maybe she is gay. Who else? Give me names! Jade from Beyond good and evil? Maybe she is GAY. My character [xxxxxxxxx][xxxxxxxxxxx] from Warhammer Online is gay, she is into equally unattractive female avatars who are also gay.

It's not so much about gay women being misrepresented, the articles were about homosexuality or lack-of gay protagonists. I don't see why one gender should get more attention than the other. But let's face it, homosexual males have it "harder". It's ok when Liara is making out with Missus Shephard, but it's not if Mr. Shephard tries to make out with Aidan.

In a male dominated industry, we seem more welcome to having lesbians around than gays. So yeah, in this case, Gay Males are the one who really need the attention of the community in a sense, although personally, I don't care about the sexuality of my characters as long as Master Chief doesn't start to make bad attempts at flirtation with Johnson while I'm trying to fight one of those dooods with hammers. Damn, I like those doods with hammers. HAMMMERS!

 

[Altorin]

when there's a popular show that they can make a play on words about that involves lesbians, then maybe they'll think about lesbians.

It was Queer Eye for the Gamer Guy.. and if it was Queer Eye for the Gamer People, or even just Gamer, then it would no longer be a play on the title, at least not a good one.

So what, the issue could be called The 'G' Word? would people get the reference enough to make an actual issue about it without confusing people?

 

[Ares Tyr]

Bisexuals didn't really get a good say in things either.

 

[ryuutchi]

Bingo. Who cares if any of these groups actually exist? They're gamers and thats what matters.

You might want to try actually reading some of the articles. It matters because there's a certain amount of prevalent sexism and homophobia within the gaming community that makes it difficult for games who are not heterosexual men to hang out in it.

See, for instance, Yang's discussion of why it upset him to be called "******" in a first person shooter even when the other player didn't mean it as a gay slur, and the fact that someone defended that slur in the comments by pointing out that gamers regularly tell female gamers to "get back in the kitchen", as though that's a defense of a slur rather than, you know, something that is hurtful and alienating.)

 

[Triskadancer]

I noticed this too, although I was pleasantly surprised at the Shiek transgender theme article. Generally transgendered people get even less (or more negative) attention than lesbians do.

Anyway, as a bisexual female, I did find it interesting that there were no articles dedicated to lesbian or bisexual girl games. Then again, I must admit I myself can't think of an article subject that pertains mostly to this subset of gamers. The whole "hey, girls play games" shtick has been done, and I am sure most Escapist readers/posters are aware of this by now, so by having an all-encompassing "oh, and the gays do too" article pretty much covers it.

Though if you have an idea for such an article, I'd be interested to hear.

 

[ryuutchi]

Not sure what to say here, as I'm relatively pissed at one aspect of this week article. Homosexuality in the gaming world seems to be a more touchy subject than race or non-whiteys as they are depicted in gaming. So, now that someone decided to bring gender to the table, let's dissect it this way, your favorite female lead, who was it? Lara Croft? Did she have any romance plot in her little adventures with a handsome male? Maybe she is gay. Who else? Give me names! Jade from Beyond good and evil? Maybe she is GAY. My character [xxxxxxxxx][xxxxxxxxxxx] from Warhammer Online is gay, she is into equally unattractive female avatars who are also gay.

It's not so much about gay women being misrepresented, the articles were about homosexuality or lack-of gay protagonists. I don't see why one gender should get more attention that the other. But let's face it, homosexual males have it "harder". It's ok when Liara is making out with Missus Shephard, but it's not if Mr. Shephard tries to make out with Aidan.

Your first paragraph reads as "there are no female leads, so why should we care about gay women?" And maybe we shouldn't-- maybe that's a separate but somewhat related problem, where women, much less queer women are under-represented in games.

But when you say the articles were about homosexuality or lack-of gay protagonists, you're wrong. The articles were about MALE homosexuality and the lack of gay MALE protagonists. Point to me one place anywhere in this week's articles where lesbians are mentioned. And no, homosexual men don't have it harder, thanks. The only reason "Liara making out with Missus Shephard" is more okay is because women are sex objects anyway, and so women making out (not in a relationship, making out) are okay because the male player gets to watch two hot chicks kissing.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

i'm going to have to say why does it matter? honestly not every group needs to be catered too just cause they want to be

I think that, yes, making "threads" or discussing the issues of non-white, heterosexual men within the gaming community and games in general would be quite productive. Especially if the articles were as interesting and incisive as The Escapist's official articles usually are.

and sorry but they are NOT directed at white heterosexual males only. get the freaking chip off your shoulder and open your eyes. it's nice you think that there's only one group this site writes for but you are wrong and you should actually do some research instead

 

[ryuutchi]

[

i'm going to have to say why does it matter? honestly not every group needs to be catered too just cause they want to be

I think that, yes, making "threads" or discussing the issues of non-white, heterosexual men within the gaming community and games in general would be quite productive. Especially if the articles were as interesting and incisive as The Escapist's official articles usually are.

and sorry but they are NOT directed at white heterosexual males only. get the freaking chip off your shoulder and open your eyes. it's nice you think that there's only one group this site writes for but you are wrong and you should actually do some research instead

Did you... even look at The Escapist front page? I'm commenting on the fact that The Escapist just did an issue discussing gays in gaming. But that they didn't mention lesbians once. Which one would assume would be covered under the umbrella of "gay".

The person I was responding to was asking sarcastically if we should discuss people who are "gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic" within games and the gaming community, and I said yes I think that would be a productive discussion. If you think that the gaming community in general isn't very geared towards white heterosexual men, I'd suggest you read Alice Bonasio's article "Straight and Narrow", linked on the front page.

 

[grimsprice]

Bingo. Who cares if any of these groups actually exist? They're gamers and thats what matters.

You might want to try actually reading some of the articles. It matters because there's a certain amount of prevalent sexism and homophobia within the gaming community that makes it difficult for games who are not heterosexual men to hang out in it.

See, for instance, Yang's discussion of why it upset him to be called "******" in a first person shooter even when the other player didn't mean it as a gay slur, and the fact that someone defended that slur in the comments by pointing out that gamers regularly tell female gamers to "get back in the kitchen", as though that's a defense of a slur rather than, you know, something that is hurtful and alienating.)

First of all, i'm as strait as an arrow, so maybe i just don't get it. However, most of the time, they are insults used in a generic non-targeted way. Not because of hate toward gays or women. I get called a cracker, a ******, a beaner, a nazi, a jew, a pollock, a queer, a *****, a ****, a pussy, a fag/******, a dick, a jackass, a piece of shit, and i've even been called a newt(yes for real, a newt). 98% of the time they are just colloquial insults, not directed at any of those things in particular. People just learned that they were insults.

I don't let any of them get to me in any way. And yes, some of them do pertain to me. I say, grow some skin and realize that everybody has words or phrases about them used as an insult. Get over it. Be okay with who you are.

Instead of feeling hurt or put down when somebody says "get back in the kitchen", just say right back "why? cant feed yourself?". Every insult has a retort. Every insult can be folded back on the insulter. Thats the way the world works, get used to being somebody that somebody else hates for no reason. We're all in that boat.

 

[AboveUp]

The problem with gays in gaming, regardless of gender, is simply that that the target audience for it is simply not mature enough to handle the subject with being either outraged or giggling at it.

Sure, we would be able to handle it, but imagine the outrage it would cause with conservative politicians who are already looking for reasons to ban video games. Even worse: the 10-20 year olds that would react equally outraged and declare everyone who play or even remotely show interest in it as "faggots".

The movie industry often still stumbles when it comes to rightly portraying gay people as normal breathing human beings, and it's been around for far longer and is more commonly accepted than gaming.

Not saying I'm against the portrayal of gays and lesbians in gaming. I'm just afraid that when it does happen, it'll be too gimmicky. Any form of sex in gaming so far has been used as a gimmick to boost sales. Using gay characters or lesbian characters, even if truthfully done with the right intentions would easily come across as such.

 

[Worgen]

well most gamers are men and almost all mens fantasy with women is either 2 women going at it with each other or him so lesbians is seen as a good thing but gay guys is seen as... I guess not masculine altho I cant think of anything more manly then taking a cock in the ass, gotta be a manly man for that I guess, I know Im not up to it.

 

[WannaBlessedBe]

Okay. Wow. Seriously, Ryuutchi... take a few steps back, take a deep breath... maybe have a cookie and a glass of milk, but whatever, calm the heck down. I'm also a gay female gamer, and you don't see me throwing a hissy fit. Honestly, I feel that gay men are underrepresented as protagonists in games... the only one I can think of off the top of my head was in Jade Empire. Gay women are also underrepresented, which I find odd considering, as you pointed out, how pre-occupied boys are with watching girls make out with each other. I just wish that, if they're going to go to the trouble of shoehorning in 'romance' subplots, they'd make them more bloody inclusive.


But I mean it about the calming down. Walk away from the computer for half an hour, then come back and talk when you're not foaming at the mouth anymore.

 

[ryuutchi]

First of all, i'm as strait as an arrow, so maybe i just don't get it. However, most of the time, they are insults used in a generic non-targeted way. Not because of hate toward gays or women. I get called a cracker, a ******, a beaner, a nazi, a jew, a pollock, a queer, a *****, a ****, a pussy, a fag/******, a dick, a jackass, a piece of shit, and i've even been called a newt(yes for real, a newt). 98% of the time they are just colloquial insults, not directed at any of those things in particular. People just learned that they were insults.

I don't let any of them get to me in any way. And yes, some of them do pertain to me. I say, grow some skin and realize that everybody has words or phrases about them used as an insult. Get over it. Be okay with who you are.

Instead of feeling hurt or put down when somebody says "get back in the kitchen", just say right back "why? cant feed yourself?". Every insult has a retort. Every insult can be folded back on the insulter. Thats the way the world works, get used to being somebody that somebody else hates for no reason.

Just because the insult can be turned back does change the fact that the insults themselves aren't rooted in serous real life oppressions. Again, I'd urge you to read Yang's article about WHY being called "******" hurts. When you're not a member of that minority, you don't really get to see the real harm that the attitudes from which insults like "fag", "******", "queer","*****", "kike", "jew", etc come can do. And before you say it, not using those insults won't do everything to stop racist, sexist, homophobic attitudes, but it will make the gaming community a less alienating place.

Sure, everyone has words that can be used as an insult about them. But there are a few select groups for whom the attitudes behind the insults do serious, everyday damage. Gays are one. Racial minorities. Women. To quote Yang's article (which is linked on the front page) they're a reminder that "it's still socially acceptable to discriminate against me and how no one will ever let me forget this."