You know what I'm talking about. How some of the more...obsessive players tailor their teams by pouring countless hours into leveling, breeding, EVs, making sure the Poke has the BEST nature, choosing the exact set of moves they need to pwn everyone...to me, it makes it feel less like an enjoyable little RPG and more like a calculated, coldly logical exercise in overthinking things. I think this mentality is really sad because it also extends to other things like the laughably overly melodramatic attitudes of those MLG types.
Whatever happened to, you know, playing a game for fun? I mean Jesus it's not like it's life or death or you're going to be a worse person for not taking things too seriously. Maybe it's just me, but the current generation of gamers doesn't seem to know how to appreciate "fun factor". Is this just the overly sentimental rambling of a cranky old schooler, or are other people fed up with this mentality?
To each his own. Maybe they find tedious leveling fun? Someone has to, or MMO's wouldn't be as prevalent as they are today. Though, yeah, above a certain age it's kinda weird to play pokemon that obsessively.
I believe it to be a better than solid RPG that is always pretty good. I don;t go into to much effort into making my teams, I usually look at the list of Pokemon and pick the ones that look the coolest. Although if I got to pick all my pokemon from any series is would be all the dark/other type with the exception of flying because If all I had were dark types I would get decimated by fighting and whatever else is good against dark.
I tried making the ultimate pokemon team, catching pokemon and releasing them because they had a crappy nature, and if they had the wrong gender...
But it stopped being fun, I agree. It lost its innocence. So I stopped caring, and played the game for fun ^^
I haven't played pokemon for years, but the extent of the metagame that I understood was what types were strong against what types. I mean, to each their own, but I never understood the huge obsession with Pokemon metagaming.
I'm 34 and have yet to play Pokemon. It's one of the few RPGs I haven't tried. I guess I'm just not that social.
That said, consider that Pokemon has turned into something of an ongoing hobby, and those kids who started with the original Pokemon games are probably not kids anymore. As such I think the hobby has kind of grown up with a lot of it's players.
As far as being obsessive, well I guess you really need to be an RPG nut to understand that. I mean going back to the C-64 you'd be amazed at how many hours I've put into grinding characters up in games like "Bard's Tale".
Most RPGs include at least one super-hard core objective that takes a lot more than casual interest in the game (and going through to beat the final boss) to do nowadays. Some RPGs like say "Disgaea" and various other members of the "SRPG" designation are sort of designed for people who want to put obsessive amounts of time into them. Take a look at some of the Disagaea "screenies" and movies on Youtube or whatever. People have gotten just as bad with the various "Final Fantasy Tactics" games.
Oh and then there is the whole "Shin Megami Tensei" thing. I guess I can't call the Pokemon crowd that abnormal given the amount of time I've spend evolving "personas" or demon party members (in Nocturne) to have just the abillities/resistances/etc... that I want them to.
While I heard they made one that wasn't very good, I've sort of been hoping someone would come up with a decent AAA production level SMT MMORPG with similar elements. I don't mind socializing online, but frankly the idea of wandering around with little portables looking for people to trade data with has always struck me as being fairly silly. It's one thing to meet another nerd immersed in a digital fantasy world more or less populated by other nerds. It's quite another to be sitting in some public place, hook up a couple of DS systems or whatever, and start talking about demon evolutions. Even doing it privatly is like stupid because if I'm going to be playing games with someone in my home (which isn't too often) why the heck do I want to do it with a tiny little screen a few inches accross, I have real gaming consoles for that.
Pokemon was kind of intended for the On The School Bus/Between Classes/In Study Hall type meetings I guess that don't exist for adults. But it does give me a case of the chuckles to know that there are plenty of people out there that started with the original cartridges and have been raising pokemon for over a decade (with the "bug" really bad) who are doubtlessly trying to do this kind of thing over the water cooler without looking like an absolute retard.
Though admittedly as these people get older, and more come up (since Pokemon still seems to be going fairly strong) we might very well eventually see Poke-world where this kind of thing becomes more accepted. Just imagine 40 years from now when your getting old and slowing down, walking into the office of some big-wig decades younger than you to see that he has a gold plated handheld (whatever generation) on his desk, and a giant wall-sized picture of his favorite Pokemon in a jewel studded frame covering one side of his office.
Not likely but I actually see a vague chance of it happening. >
I don't worry about natures (I'm sorry, but especially with Legendaries, I am NOT going to re-fight tedious battles over and over just so it has the best nature).
To me, breeding is way too time-consuming and the immediate benefits seem dubious at best.
IVs/EVs I will leave to the math junkies.
A large part of the metagame, apparently, involves the right stat-boosting or reducing moves. Honestly, I prefer to be entirely offensive, because unless the move has a truly beneficial side effect, I consider it a wasted turn where you COULD have been attacking/doing actual damage.
It's a kid's game and its main purpose is to sell toys [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys], so I wish people would stop being so creepily obsessive. When I think of the geeks who hyperventilate over IVs and natures I think of the Pokemon Collector trainer sprites...
You know what I'm talking about. How some of the more...obsessive players tailor their teams by pouring countless hours into leveling, breeding, EVs, making sure the Poke has the BEST nature, choosing the exact set of moves they need to pwn everyone...to me, it makes it feel less like an enjoyable little RPG and more like a calculated, coldly logical exercise in overthinking things. I think this mentality is really sad because it also extends to other things like the laughably overly melodramatic attitudes of those MLG types.
Whatever happened to, you know, playing a game for fun? I mean Jesus it's not like it's life or death or you're going to be a worse person for not taking things too seriously. Maybe it's just me, but the current generation of gamers doesn't seem to know how to appreciate "fun factor". Is this just the overly sentimental rambling of a cranky old schooler, or are other people fed up with this mentality?
You can still have a lot of fun with the game ignoring the meta-game completely. I'm having a lot of fun with Platinum, and I'm only about half way through with it, and haven't even reached that point. Previous to meta-game, the only options you had were to wirelessly link with friends beside eachother if you wanted to play others, and you can still do that with said friends, and there are still those who feel the same way in which you can battle with wirelessly. It's not like you ever missed anything prior to the infection of competitive play.
Fun is entirely subjective and for the exactly same reason there is multiplayer competitive play in other games, there will be that option in Pokemon, despite the barriers you create for it for being merely being a children's game, when it's more so neutral in all regards, and open for anyone to pick up.
There is plenty of content available, even more so now, in the storyline mode and sidequests that you get your money's worth out of your purchase. (unless you were dissatisfied with the game, in which meta-game shouldn't be a problem)
I don't worry about natures (I'm sorry, but especially with Legendaries, I am NOT going to re-fight tedious battles over and over just so it has the best nature).
To me, breeding is way too time-consuming and the immediate benefits seem dubious at best.
IVs/EVs I will leave to the math junkies.
A large part of the metagame, apparently, involves the right stat-boosting or reducing moves. Honestly, I prefer to be entirely offensive, because unless the move has a truly beneficial side effect, I consider it a wasted turn where you COULD have been attacking/doing actual damage.
It's a kid's game and its main purpose is to sell toys [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys], so I wish people would stop being so creepily obsessive. When I think of the geeks who hyperventilate over IVs and natures I think of the Pokemon Collector trainer sprites...
My favorite part is the one in bold.
It makes it difficult to take you seriously.
This is coming from someone who doesn't play Pokemon, but knows someone who used to take it relatively seriously. About as seriously as I used to take Starcraft.
I'm assuming you're talking about the single player campaign - with that, I agree with you, since there were only about 200 times where my enemy would use screech when he had 1/4th health and I finish him before he gets to exploit the weakness he just created.
However, it should be easy to understand that in multiplayer, there is obvious advantages of boosting attack power and baton-passing it to another Pokemon who can use that advantage without taking the turns to do so. (ie: instead of doing 50 damage 9 times, doing 0 damage 3 times and then 150 damage 6 times.)
Anyhow - that one specific point isn't nearly the start of what I disagree with you with, so I'll get to that.
Any game, and I mean ANY GAME is turned "hardcore" (lack of a better term...Competitive?) by the players.
Halo is now a so-called "e-sport."
WoW has Arena-Tournaments.
Ocarina of Time speedruns and 3-heart master runs are aplenty.
Guitar Hero, which is easy to just pick up and play a song on easy ends up having a very competitive top tier of gameplay.
Even Pokemon. Something that might not be (on the surface) serious or competitive has the potential for extremely competitive gameplay and atmosphere. And if being the best and vanquishing your opponents requires actually taking time EV training, so be it.
There will always be people that you mention. Where you see a cute little bubbly egg-carrying pink hospital helper, they see a tank. Where you see the evolution you didn't want because you wanted your Mudkip to stay a Mudkip forever, they see a sweeper. Where you see a Pokemon, they see numbers. Spreadsheets. Possibilities. Combinations.
Play the game how you want to. If how you want to is sub-optimal for competitive play, don't come here to whine about people who "spend too much time" with something to be better at it.
Do amateur athletes hate players better than them with an attitude consisting of "Oh, I can't believe you take this seriously, and actually try to be skilled at it. I played that shit when I was like 8 years old!"
Do amateur musicians insult the skilled because they "spend too much time" on it?
If someone's hobby is creating an unstoppable Pokemon team, then let them do it.
You know, to some of us, competition is fun. And playing at a skilled level is fun. And winning is fun, and close games are fun, and thinking about how to become better is fun. And I realize it's not for everyone, and the best part is that you don't have to play the game in a way you don't like.
I think it's wonderful that the game is entertaining at all levels of play, friendly and competitive alike, casual and hardcore alike.
And I think that you should calm down and let people do what they want. And honestly, your post sounds very similar to certain things I've seen on forums for other games from people who recently lost a battle because their play style is not as best suited for PvP than other players' styles.
I enjoy numbers, though I don't do it with Pokemon.
One of the biggest joys I had with Ragnarok Online was planning out everything, planning out when and where i was going to get every point and in what order i would get the skills with, along with where i was going to level. Then finally playing it all out and basking in the glory of my supremely crafted character.
I could see someone doing that with a Pokemon team, just the issue I have is for a game which is predominantly single player, it seems a bit of a waste. Though, maybe there are people who are really into competitive Pokemon battles, i dunno.
I hate it.
In the real game (or R/B/Y, if I recall correctly, the EVs kept piling up, even at 100), if you worked hard, any pokemon could be strong, even a little Pichu.
With the metagame, a lot of interesting pokemon are just written off.
However, it should be easy to understand that in multiplayer, there is obvious advantages of boosting attack power and baton-passing it to another Pokemon who can use that advantage without taking the turns to do so. (ie: instead of doing 50 damage 9 times, doing 0 damage 3 times and then 150 damage 6 times.)
Though it doesn't necessarily must be something like this, multi-player is, indeed, very different from single-player. It's very easy to sweep the entire single-player campaign (whatever you want to call it), ignoring strategy altogether, because it's not needed.
Strategy, prediction, and a well-trained and balanced team against another like-minded player sets the two apart. Multi-player brings this all into play, and why it's extremely appealing to those who partake. Just because you can sweep the game so easily doesn't mean that it must undervalue pivotal aspects of different playstyles, because they are different and shouldn't be compared.
You can make a team of sweepers, and it would probably work out fairly well, but stallers, tanks, stealth rock/spikers, and annoyers are all part of what makes it a much different experience in gameplay.
Uh...water attacks beat fire, normal beat ghost, fire beats grass, water beats ground, fire beats bug, bug beats grass. Really thats all you need to know (and the other elements) and you dont need to go too into it to have a pwn team. If you have to be so meticulous to do well,y ou must suck at the game.
I did some EV training once. I actually kept track of numbers and stuff, but that might have been a result of me being both an engineer and a sufferer of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
I don't know, when I finally got one of my PokeFriends to level 100, I didn't really get a feeling of accomplishment. I just went "Ok, I totally EV trained it...now what". Then I restarted the game.
I guess EV training comes in a little handy when you play online, but I just don't think the ultimate goal was worth pouring so much effort into.
Valiance, I'm not saying it's "wrong" to have that mentality, and I could not give a rat's ass about the hardcore PvP addicts or their community.
Pokemon is basically an RPG version of Mega Man. Isn't that all that really matters? The fun, to me, is in figuring out the weaknesses and what attacks work best, not how to create a loophole the player can't normally break out of (such as the FEAR method that used to be so widely used). That's not fun to me, that's forcing someone else to lose because you're exploiting moves in ways the developers probably never meant to happen. I think that once you view games as "I HAVE TO BEAT THE OTHER PERSON NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE I MUST BE PERFECT" rather than "Yay I'm having fun", a part of your gamer's soul has died forever.
The metagame is fun outside of the obsessive genre of OU. You get so bored of the same movepools and teams of boring pokemon. Never bothered or had time for the metagame.
Uh...water attacks beat fire, normal beat ghost, fire beats grass, water beats ground, fire beats bug, bug beats grass. Really thats all you need to know (and the other elements) and you dont need to go too into it to have a pwn team. If you have to be so meticulous to do well,y ou must suck at the game.
Looking at that, some of those you would think not-that-useful if you didn't have an in-depth knowledge of the game. Legendaries aside, who would ever consider Tentacruel, Weavile, or Ninjask, as examples, generally considered standard fare Pokemon, as overpowering metagame super gods?
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