What does the Confederate flag represent to you?

[Baron Von Evil Satan]

Apparently the NAACP is boycotting an annual fundraiser held by the Detroit Arms organization because Kid Rock is set to receive their Great Expectation Award at the dinner.

The reason the NAACP gave for the boycott was that because Kid Rock uses the flag of the Confederate States of America (the group of southern states that succeeded from the Union from 1861-1865) in his shows, because they believe it represents bigotry, and racism.

Kid Rock has stated before that he believes the flag to represent the spirit of southern rock and roll. Not the want for slavery and racism.

This got me wondering: what do my fellow Americans (and non-Americans) think the Confederate flag represents?

Personally I believe it to simply represent another country (regardless of the fact that it was never considered an autonomous nation). I agree with Kid when he says it represents the spirit of the south, as southerners have a reputation for being rebellious in America. Did the confederates want to keep the institution of slavery around? Yes, but because that is what their economy was based on. Southerners were no more racist than Northerners at the time, they just saw slavery (as terrible of an institution as is was) as a means to get work done faster and at quicker pace. I also have a hard time understanding why people view the Confederate flag as representing slavery and bigotry when the Civil War wasn't even fought over slavery. The Confederate states succeeded for a multitude of other reasons (part of the reason they were never very united in their cause), and Lincoln simply used the emancipation of all slaves in union controlled Confederate states as a way to ruin the southern resolve and economy.

tl;dr: Confederate flag doesn't mean slavery. Go read history before you speak.

 

[Jonluw]

Hicks and rednecks. And the dukes of Hazard.
That's all, really.

Edit: I mean no offense, of course. It's just that I've only had contact with the southern states through films and TV, and that's how they're represented...

 

[rockyoumonkeys]

To me, waving the Confederate flag is somewhat comparable to, though probably less extreme than, waving a Nazi flag. It's a symbol of hatred.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Banjo!


I choose you!

OT: As an Englishman, I don't really know about the civil war factions of America. I do know that a lot of awesome songs came from that era though.

Whistling dixy. Oh yeaaaah!

 

[maddawg IAJI]

As the symbol for a nation that never got off the ground and based its entire economy on agriculture and ended up collapsing because of it. I don't see it representing 'southern rock and roll' nor do I see it as a symbol for bigotry and racism. Its just a flag that the southern states chose to use to represent their confederation.

 

[MetroidNut]

The Confederate battle flag (the "Confederate flag", not to be mistaken with the actual nation flag of the CSA), in my opinion, was once a symbol of honor and courage in battle. That's what it meant in 1865, and that's what it meant for some time after the Civil War. However, it has since been appropriated by racist groups to symbolize racist ideals. Its meaning has changed. I would now argue that using it as a symbol is fairly inappropriate; even if you're trying to use it to represent its original meaning, people will not interpret it that way.

 

[jawakiller]

The Confederate flag represents, well the Confederation of course. And this Confederation left the union because they thought their rights as slave owners would be taken away. Turns out they were right. So when I see a Confederate flag I see slavery. Whenever I see a redneck driving his truck (I'm not stereotyping, I'm being serious) with the flag on the back I feel like they're saying they still support slavery. Maybe its cuz I'm from the north.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Well it means nothing to me, I'm English.

But if you're arguing that the flag means racism because of the civil war then you have to think of the racism that followed the civil war up to mere years ago. Really, you could argue that the current US flag represents racism, just like you could for other country's flags.

General consensus is that the civil war was fought over slavery though, as far as I understand it (GCSE level) it was fought over slavery more so than other things.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I think it represents a past ideal. It doesnt automatically represent slavery. Just a way of life.

.... also incest.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I am not American so dont expect much, but didnt the union have no issue with slavery until they went to war with the south and used it as an excuse ?

To me it symbolises people who disagreed with their government (iirc the southerners majority votes were ignored) and fought for what they belived in, before losing and being demonized so the government could take the moral highground...

Also I wish they swapped flags, be3cuase I like the confederate flag mor4 than the US flag, it looks nicer.

Also they cant ***** about it being racist becuase I can counter it with one thing.
THIS GUY

H.K Edgerton former president of the NAACP's Asheville, North Carolina branch.

The union was anti-slavery. The majority of the states had already abolished slavery and only a handful of slave states stayed with the Union. And those states still stayed in the Union even after the passing of the Emancipation Proclamation. Slavery was allowed to exist because until that point, Southern Democrats were in power. As soon as the Anti-Slavery Republican party takes control, the southerns seceded.

Also, the Southerners didn't lose the 1860 election because of their votes not counting, they lost because their votes were split between 3 different people. Abraham Lincoln still won the election with 40% of all votes, simply because the person closest to him only managed to achieve 30% of the votes, with the remaining 30% being split between John Bell and John Beckinridge.

And they kicked H.K. Edgarton out of his office 12 years ago. He may have at one point been affiliated with the NAACP, but he is no longer welcome there.

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

Well it means nothing to me, I'm English.

PHEW, I was worried for a second.

Yep, I think I know what flag it is, but it means absolutely nothing to me.

I'm guessing...if it's called the Confederate Flag...it represents...the...Confederation...
...
Yerrrr........

 

[Baron Von Evil Satan]

*le snip*
Didnt the north have no issue with slavery at the start, instead they just made it so they would have less slaves, they wouldnt remove it completely.

I should read up on this stuff.

Yes and no. The abolitionist movement was started in the northern states, but the government never took any large steps in any direction with regards to slavery until the war broke out. The northerners did have slaves, but they were almost always treated better than slaves in the south. The reasons for this is that the northern states had a mix of forests, lakes, natural bays, and land for farming, thus making slaves less of a necessity for a successful economy.

The southern economy was all based on agriculture because the majority of it was swamps and fields that could be cultivated, so slaves were more needed to support their economy.

 

[Leon Last Lord Shyle]

Erm am I the only person thinking that this kind off relates to the swastika.

It was in use for thousands of years before Nazi Germany rose to prominence but now that is all we relate it to.

One thing will override many and no matter what the confederacy stood for most of the world will only attribute one word to it and that word unfortunately happens to be slavery.

Not being American I do not know if that is all they stood for but it is what the world hears about them.

 

[SturmDolch]

In historic terms, one side of the American Civil War.

Nowadays, if I see it, I think of either hicks or those rock and roll type guys who wear all black, drive matte black 60's era muscle cars, have big mutton chops, and wear the same hats as railroad workers. What do you even call that group? There's a whole store dedicated to them in Edmonton.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Well it means nothing to me, I'm English.

But if you're arguing that the flag means racism because of the civil war then you have to think of the racism that followed the civil war up to mere years ago. Really, you could argue that the current US flag represents racism, just like you could for other country's flags.

General consensus is that the civil war was fought over slavery though, as far as I understand it (GCSE level) it was fought over slavery more so than other things.

Originally it was never about slavery. It was more about the Union getting back the troublesome deserters. Then the Union realized "oh shit, the confederacy support slavery made cotton, and was one of the biggest exporters of such cotton to the British (who had at the time abolished slavery [EDIT] in 1833). That means that its only a matter of time before Britain decides to throw its weight in the form of troops, boats, etc." because, I guess Britain wasnt above getting goods made from slave labor even though they didnt use slavery anymore or something like that.
Then lincoln looked at this and was like, "wait a minute! if we can villianize the south and say this is a war against slavery, Britain will lose all respect in the world's view, mainly cause they're hypocrizing." But the problem with that was, there was the boarder states to think about (Maryland, Missouri, [later] West Virginia, and Kentucky) who still enjoyed slavery. The real issue was mostly Maryland, cause then you'd have washington DC flanked on the north/east by confederate supporting Maryland and west/south by Virgina (which is VERY bad to have your capital like that).
So then Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclimation came around, which stated (paraphrasized) Slavery is now illegal in all territories of rebellion against the Union. However, the clause of that was slavery was still legal IN the union.
So it told slaves, "hey, run to the north, you wont have to break your back in the field picking cotton, and we can cripple the south and win your freedom." Then once they crossed intot he north, they were drafted or put back into slavery in the north, and their "saviors" just sorta shrugged and were like "what? Oh, didnt you read the fine print?"
And there were in fact Slves that fought for the south out of freewill (I know, the irony of that statement) cause they liked the way of life better. I mean, there were black plantation owners and slave holders.

So yeah, the who slavery thing was an afterthought. First and foremost, it was keep Britain the f--k out of this as much as possible (since the Union was staring down blockades and having their merchant ships raided by English Privateers. And that solely depended on keeping the south from winning a major battle (Antietam/Gettysburg) and making the war about freeing the slaves and making it look like a major country that had abolished slavery would be supporting it. Thats why for my college history final paper I wrote about how Antietam was the real turning point, and not Gettysburg, because it pretty much promised that Britain couldnt get into the war without taking major flak from other "free" nations and let Lincoln give his pre Emancipation Proclamation speech.

 

[FinalHeart95]

... The confederacy?

This.
And when people have it on their pick-up trucks somewhere I instantly make a lot of (possibly false) judgments.

 

[nunqual]

It represents the South and the Southern spirit, not slavery and bigotry.

 

[Leon Last Lord Shyle]

(who had at the time abolished slavery... um.. like, less then ten years before I think. I wanna say in 1858). That means that its only a matter of time before Britain decides to throw its weight in the form of troops, boats, etc." because, I guess Britain wasnt above getting goods made from slave labor even though they didnt use slavery anymore or something like that.

It was 1833 and was actually used as a way to piss of America after the not so decisive war of 1812, slaves that arrived on British soil where instantly considered to be free men, although yea for a great deal of time we still did use the slave made cotton, but oh well if we didn't someone else would have.