What if saying "I can't do math" had the same stigma as saying "I can't read"?

[riverand]

After twelve years of teaching math myself, this is a question that always pops up in the back of my mind. I have had parents, fellow (non-math) teachers, and, of course, students have no problem saying they can't do math. It is not something that anyone feels the least bit embarrassed about, mostly because (I think) it is an accepted norm. No one would be as confident in admitting their illiteracy!

So WHAT IF innumeracy held that same stigma? Would it change how you feel about maths? Do you think it would affect maths education? Or do you think it doesn't matter at all?

Just curious. I've been asking everyone! (http://www.riverarunsthroughit.com/2011/08/what-if-3.html)

 

[easternflame]

Well I do like math, in my opinion, give it ten years and it will be like that. After all, in my country, there are a lot of people that have no idea how to read, so the math scenario does seem likely

 

[Spambot 3000]

Er wait I'm confused here did you say the inability to do maths was illiteracy? Or not? Actually, I don't even know anything about this, just ignore me.

 

[Ultrajoe]

It doesn't? I tend to sneer at people who can't say or type 'maths' (It's a contraction! A pural no less!) as much as I would anyone who can't read the word.

 

[Hal10k]

Well, the vast majority of people have the innate ability to do basic math. They can count four apples, and they know that if you add fourteen apples to that, you'll have eighteen apples. They'll wonder why the hell they have so many apples, but that's beside the point.

Higher level math, such as calculus, is what most people are talking about when they state an inability to "do math". Higher level math, while extraordinarily useful, isn't equivilant to basic reading skills. Arithmetic is comprable to basic reading skills, calculus is comprable to analyzing the underlying themes of a historical epic.

 

[Volkov]

The ability to read is a pretty well-defined skill. To "do math" is fairly meaningless. Derive finite difference approximations to partial integro-differential equations? Add two numbers? Somewhere in between?

I would be in favor of elementary and middle school math education in the States changing completely (cuz it's fucking atrocious currently), but I think reading overall is a far more important skill anyway than even the most basic arithmetic. In general though, I would say this: in the States, non-technical (non-sciences, non-math) education should be given FAR less attention than it is in elementary and middle schools, and technical - far more. As it stands now, many areas of mathematics start only in high school, and that hurts people's talents, since the earlier you are exposed to certain areas of mathematics, the more "inherent" of a skill to you it becomes (similar to languages). This has fairly far-reaching consequences for higher education and STEM field staffing in general.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

It should be.
But I'm the guy in our group who always figures how much the tip is going to be before anyone else so don't mind me.

But then again if people can be considered il-math-literate than whats stopping people for raising the basic-everybody-knows-it standards for science and english? And then people will be put off when you don't know the basics of psychology or engineering. Pretty soon just knowing the basics won't be enough, before long people won't even talk to you until you have a 4 year degree in ever prerequisite and tenure at Harvard..... But I digress

 

[pearcinator]

Basic Math is something everyone NEEDS to have if they want to live on their own.

Basic Literacy is needed if you want to have a successful job and communication skills.

Advanced Math is only for the scientists, mathematicians etc.

Advanced Literacy is the same...if you want to become an author, journalist etc.

You need basic math and literacy to survive...advanced math and literacy if you want a particular career. I reckon they both have the same "stigma" attached but I believe anyone can learn the basic math and literacy skills (disability or not) it just requires specific teaching.

 

[Saelune]

Reading is more useful and pertinant than math to the common person. If you can read, you could use that to help earnmath on your own. Reverse not so much. (Though you could learn math and not read...it would be easier)
Reading has many more everyday uses. I read stuff on this site, on my food containers, in my mail, on tv, on ads. How much math did I do today though? Very little.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Maths is numbers. That shows intellect. The level of anti-intellectualism, especially among the media, is horrific.

Reading though...that can be intellectual, but only if you read books. There's a number of people here, even, that are proud of the fact they never read a book since they left school - but are happy to read my, or anyone's else's, waffle "'coz only nerds read books".

(Comics don't count, neither do magazines because... DUH!!!)

So it's less a case of not being as embarrassed, but of where it's used. Even innumerate people still remember phone numbers ok, because that's not maths.

Or that's my view.

 

[Nouw]

Technically maths is everything. Take that as you wish.

 

[easternflame]

It doesn't? I tend to sneer at people who can't say or type 'maths' (It's a contraction! A pural no less!) as much as I would anyone who can't read the word.

I guess the difference is that right now it's just you and me, later on it should be the whole world. In theory I suppose.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

It doesn't? I tend to sneer at people who can't say or type 'maths' (It's a contraction! A pural no less!) as much as I would anyone who can't read the word.

I'm pretty sure I'm with you on this one. Since when did the inability to do basic mathematics not have a stigma attached to it?

 

[enzilewulf]

Well I can't do math. Yet I am in advanced Geomotry and want to go up to Calculus. I am saying I can't do math because its my worst subject. That seems to be a lot of the case for Americans. Every one can read and you need to be able to read to graduate High school where depending on which high school you go to you don't have to take as much math classes to pass.

 

[Torrasque]

It depends on how much math you mean.
If a person can't figure out square roots and the like, in their head, then thats no big deal.
But if they can't do basic multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction, then thats fucked up.

 

[Plinglebob]

Higher level math, such as calculus, is what most people are talking about when they state an inability to "do math". Higher level math, while extraordinarily useful, isn't equivilant to basic reading skills. Arithmetic is comprable to basic reading skills, calculus is comprable to analyzing the underlying themes of a historical epic.

The problem is it isn't just the "Higher level maths". A scary number of people have no idea about things like ratios, percentages or even basic mental arithmatic. All of which are used regularly. Personally I think the issue comes from the fact that very little "Practical" maths is encourged or taught after 2+2=4. There needs to be a part of the syllabus all the way up to GCSE dedicated to what I would term "Maths in the real world"

Snippty snip

Also, this.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

It doesn't? I tend to sneer at people who can't say or type 'maths' (It's a contraction! A pural no less!) as much as I would anyone who can't read the word.

A pural? I sneer, sir, I sneer.

 

[moosek]

It's more like, "I CAN'T MATH!" and then you decide you don't need that job.

 

[AugustFall]

"I can't do math" is saying "I can't do more complicated math than basic subtraction, division etc."

It's like if, "I can't read" meant, "I can't do critical reading."

 

[Signa]

I'm great at math, but I don't really do mental math much any more. If you ask me what two-digit number added to a random 3 digit number is, I'll usually stare blankly at you. Give me something to jot it down on, and I'll run algebra equations as if I'm copying a list some one gave me.

I guess my point is that I could easily say "I can't math" and not really mean it the same as what the OP is talking about. More on topic: Yeah, it would be nice if it carried the same stigma. Math (at least in school) isn't so much about the manipulation of numbers as much as it's a puzzle with a certain set of rules that you have to apply logic to. Admitting you lack a sense of logic should make you look bad.