what is acceptable in a game?

[redstar alpha]

i have been watching the leagal fights about games and violence that have been raging in america and i got to thinking what is acceptable to put in a game?
i am talking about mainstream games no hentia stuff on newgrounds or anything like that and also where would ou draw the line where a gaem goes from "just entertainment" to "they shouldent be allowed to do that" this can be any thing sex, drugs, violence anything.

some thing tells me this has been done but i couldent find another thread like it when i searched.

 

[Yan-Yan]

Boy you seem to love making threads... might wanna slow down on that so you have something to talk about tomorrow, eh?

But really, when it comes to 'video games and lines', I feel that it should be dictated by what the company is willing to make, and the public is willing to buy. Yes people all over the world (not just America, tyvm) are throwing a hissy fit over video game violence and content. That's the current media target because for the most part, video games are still being seen as 'for the kids'. Congratulations, you've hit upon the latest media scapegoat that started 5 years ago.

As for where that line should be drawn, like I said, it should be a matter of what game producers and developers want to make against what the public is willing to purchase. That does mean that there should be an accurate rating system in place and enforced purchasing requirements (18+ games should require ID, just like tobacco / alcohol). Other then self-governing rating systems and federally mandated purchasing limitations, what lines need to be drawn concerning the video games?

 

[Gormers1]

Well I can tell you one thing: If you ever played halo 2 multiplayer you may have played a map where theres moving trains in it. This train was supposed to be burning and you should have been able to see trapped people in there, screaming until their lungs couldn't handle it. This was a bit to extreme, so it was just replaced with a regular train that goes super fast forever through the map, but if you listen closely, you can sometimes hear screaming if you are close enough.

Anyway: maybe you should ask what isn't allowed in games.

 

[ThaBenMan]

Anything. Games are undeniably art, and art should be whatever the artist(s) is willing to make.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

As far as I'm concerned, anything is fair game. If a publisher is willing to allow it into their game, then they should be allowed to put it in. Just because the content is in a game doesn't mean I have to buy it, nor does anyone who doesn't appreciate it.

The only reason the whole "violence/sex/drugs" in gaming issue exists is because of people who stubbornly refuse to read the labels on the games. Even though it clearly states that the game is meant for people over the age of 17 (depending on where you live), they ignore it and then complain when they find boobs blatantly showing themselves on little Timmy's TV screen.

 

[redstar alpha]

i think you missed the point (or are avoiding it) i meant what do people feel personaly not about the public at large but in the personal sense of what is right and wrong to put in to a game as in how would you feel if there was a game where the rape of children was an option would you think that it is a representasion of a real life event or that it should never be part of any game ever(i am in the latter camp).
also i used the thing about the legal battles because it was the only way i could think to lead on to my main point(it is an intro) and also because it has started to hot up again.

p.s. i no all about the other "public figures" that have been getting all tied up in knoughts over this but the american ones seem to be the loudest (and in alot of cases the stupidest, just look a jack thompson)

pp.s this is aimed at yan-yan

 

[redstar alpha]

Anything. Games are undeniably art, and art should be whatever the artist(s) is willing to make.

the "games are art" defence is not really a good defence hear i am talking about the extremes things like child rape and murder could you honestly say you would not be bothered if a game (a mainstream one with all the flahy graphics) was realesed with scenes of graphic child rape (i know i am using child rape alot but it is a powerful vision that can make you see what i am getting at) and you would be ok with it?

 

[ThaBenMan]

Anything. Games are undeniably art, and art should be whatever the artist(s) is willing to make.

the "games are art" defence is not really a good defence hear i am talking about the extremes things like child rape and murder could you honestly say you would not be bothered if a game (a mainstream one with all the flahy graphics) was realesed with scenes of graphic child rape (i know i am using child rape alot but it is a powerful vision that can make you see what i am getting at) and you would be ok with it?

If someone wants to make it, I absolutely think they should be allowed to. As for if I would play it, then probably no. But I'm willing to let game devs get away with a lot - if they made child-rape a compelling part of the game, in the right context, not just for the hell of it, then sure, I would play that and be fine with it. I just think it'd be very difficult to do that.

 

[Easykill]

Sounds like the What should be banned thread. But that doesn't matter.

I think games can do whatever the hell they want as long as there are age restrictions. It's also good if there's a logical reason to do something bad. Like in Bioshock if they didn't screw it up.

 

[Yan-Yan]

Alright. Let's play your game of 'child rape'.

When was the last time you saw scenes of graphic child rape in a movie? And yet movies enjoy a lot more freedom of expression and artistic quality then video games. I suppose that places that line of thinking straight under hyperbole.

And regardless of what you want to hear (personal opinions using the specific 'you'), I refuse to give that kind of response because in the end, it isn't what would matter. If what I wanted to see in video games mattered that much, I would have a completely different job and be payed a whole lot more. Instead, it really is what the public at large is willing to tolerate. Would they tolerate a child rape scene in a game? Depends on how tasteful (if such a thing could exist) it's done and what the context of the game is. Is it the protagonist or the antagonist conducting the offending material? How does the game show the action in light of consequences? What kind of story, plot, or themes is the game dealing with?

At the end of the day, the game should be judged not by what material it shows, but how it handles the material. And even then, is the public willing to buy into it.


EDIT: Let's look at Condemned. That game is full of graphic violence and murder, but it was very popular. Popular enough for a relatively expectant sequel to come out. One which will most likely be bloodier and more realistic then the first. I wouldn't buy it, but only because it's not my taste. But should it be made? Of course. The public at large enjoyed it (or at least enough of the public did) and rightfully so, as I hear it was a good game.

But it's not for me. Neither was Saw (one through four), because those kinds of movies give me the willies and nightmares (I'm a real squealer when it comes to slasher / horror flicks). But there are enough people out there who enjoyed Saw enough that they made three sequels.

So really, regardless of if I would buy it or not, I stand by my response in my first post. And now I think I've posted quite enough on this topic... yeesh.

 

[H0ncho]

Freedom of the press, freedom of speech and by extension freedom of writing whatever lines of code you wish should be absolute.

 

[redstar alpha]

bollocks to it!
ignore this hole thread i was not thinking straight when i posted it so just forget i ever wrote about it.(although go look at my "most kick ass hero ever" thread)

 

[Kikosemmek]

I draw the line where people feel the need they have the right to vote or draw lines for everyone else.

If content in a game bothers someone, then it's their prerogative not to play it. Similar guidelines apply to anything in life.

There is nothing bad in exposing kids to anything adults are exposed to.

Censorship is mind-control, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either a tool or trying to tool you. I don't appreciate any other person, let alone a 3rd party agency or the government to decide for me what I should find appropriate. I take that as an offense and I think it is very condescending. I only ask why others don't feel the same way about this, so that we may vote and kick such habits off our backs.

One major argument for censorship is that it's very hard for parents to limit the exposure of their children the way they want to. True, but what people should realize is that their children are not their own. They can inform them about the world and tell them honestly why they (the parents themselves) like or dislike some things about the place they live in, and leave it at that. Any attempt to 'turn a child off' of something is yet another attempt at mind-control. How about lecturing the kid on the 'bad subject' allowing him/her to form his/her own opinions? How about if a kid wants to play a game that's rated 'mature,' then our rating system is dysfunctional?

If 13 year-old wants to see an x-rated movie, it isn't because of overexposure to nudity in the media or bad parenting. It is because the child has hormones. As Bill Hicks said: "Playboy Magazine doesn't create sexual thoughts. Having a dick creates sexual thoughts, and that created Playboy Magazine." This is an example that just goes to show that people will end up deciding for themselves where the risk of social or legal punishment is small enough. In this instance, I ask why should there be such punishment in the first place? Who are we to judge? We are humans just like everyone else. If God is mentioned here, I will retort that in this country we are supposed to separate church from state when it comes to legislature, and that it is time for God to close his big mouth because not everyone who lives here is religious or appreciates having the opinions of religious dogma imposed upon them.

The lines will be drawn by the mainstream market: while there is a crowd for even the most relatively disgusting, shocking things you can find, those won't be the majority at any given time, so anyone who wants to make money will produce for the mainstream. That's neither good nor bad, but simply a matter of cause-and-effect, as all is.

 

[Shamtee]

Video gaming is new and to people that don't understand it is scary. to make it harder for video games your interacting with it so that makes people ever more scared that its training and/or brain washing kids - since that what it original came out for but now if for everyone but you could mainly say young adults, never the less it still scares people and others feed into it. Something being accetable relays on that person, though there are certain areas where everyone see the same veiw. For gaming that a 3 way struggle really.

To put my view over a little better. It like on of the America i talk to who think it unacceptable for me or anyone to play fantasy game where magic involved, or any magic with magic. Since it encouraged to learn witchcraft. His very religious but loves game as much as me. To me i find that very odd, i find nothing wrong with reading watching and playing game with magic in it. so no ones really right.

 

[stompy]

If God is mentioned here, I will retort that in this country we are supposed to separate church from state when it comes to legislature, and that it is time for God to close his big mouth because not everyone who lives here is religious or appreciates having the opinions of religious dogma imposed upon them.

Here, Here! Well written Kikosemmek, I completely agree with this, simply becuase I find that, now-a-days, people get away with too much, simply becuase they spout religion as an excuse. To me, religion is a personal thing, and in a secular state, anyone has the right to follow their beliefs, as long as it doesn't clash with the state's laws. But to use religion to harm, or censor, or block, IMO, is disgusting.

Sorry 'bout that. Now, as for me, the line on what videogames can can contain should never be drawn, simply becuase in most 'western' countries, the Constitution states that everyone has the right to say/film/write/create whatever they want (again, there are laws in some extremes, but currently, I don't think that videogames touch these lines yet). So, why are videogames exempted from this right? If any other form of media is allowed to get away with some less-then-savoury material, then why aren't videogames?

While I do say this, I also believe that a game shouldn't push boundaries, just for the sake of pushing boundaries. To use your example, there shouldn't be child-rape, simply for the sake of it. It should be an integral part of the story, or play some significant role in the game (as most other people said).

I also believe that if there is something that people would find objectionable in a game, then it should be on the front cover. This way, people who wish to buy this product, can, while those who don't want to, can steer clear.

Simple, no?

 

[zen5887]

I d'no.. I really dont mind Censorship on snuff films and rape simulators.. Im all for freedom of speach - Within the law =P

 

[scoHish]

At the moment it seems like you can kill as many cops, smoke as many joints, and kick as many puppies as you want in a videogame. But as soon as theres a flash of nudity, government sleazmongers go nuts. I'm not saying i want nudity in games, i don't think its necessary. But it seems like society's principles are a little out of place, don't it?

 

[Pseudonym2]

Anything that doesn't involve pedophilia, treason, sedition, or libel.

 

[zen5887]

At the moment it seems like you can kill as many cops, smoke as many joints, and kick as many puppies as you want in a videogame. But as soon as theres a flash of nudity, government sleazmongers go nuts. I'm not saying i want nudity in games, i don't think its necessary. But it seems like society's principles are a little out of place, don't it?

Apparently its the other way round in eroupe. Sex is okay buy violence is really bad.

Dont quote me on that I think I heard it somewhere

 

[Lazzi]

There is only one genre that i have ever hade a problem with. Rape simulters not so much for the fact that there are people who make them (rape is some thing that is horribly real and we msut execept it like the holocaughst) btu its we i can teach. I belive that this media fad is rooted mostly in conservative parents how really dont look at the games they buy there children. when one consider that rape gaem and unattentkve parents co-exist you end up with a very scary realization, there are very young children that are might be expossed to thsi material during very curtial developmental periods. these children could learn that women like to be controled (which they dont, ive been hit every time ive pulled an 'angry dragon' on a girl).

Look i understand that is whole intier 'may predispose children to consider rape to be socialy acceptable' is a long shoot but i have reason for saying so, while not a rape victume my self nor has any one i know a Handicapped child was rapped in my middle school so i cant help but at least try to push that foward. so yeah im jsut against rape sims.

Others wise i belive very thing else should be allowed to rome free and wild.

p.s. I still find the ideas of 'ku klux Klan 6' and '****** kill 3' to be in very bad taste, for those white supremist ass holes out there