What is Sexism?

[Ducoman]

What is it really? I seem to be hearing that term a lot lately, but its thrown around so casually, a sort of knee-jerk reaction to anything and everything that portrays a gender in a slightly less than optimal light.

Though, to be fair, when I say "a gender" I'm mostly talking about women, because no one ever considers that sexism can be aimed at men. Yes, we really are just a bunch of uber-thick masses of muscle and flab that want to stick our man-meat in everything. Including our guns. And our vehicles. And more guns.

Skyrim I think represents the epitome of just how futile it is to even try and argue these points though. Despite the fact that the game goes above and beyond to make its female characters seem just as capable and diverse as the men, it still gets called sexist.

My character will just be strolling through Whiterun and some lady will walk up to me and say:

"What's the matter? You've never seen a strong Nord woman before?"

or some other lady will open up a conversation with this gem:

"Are you married? You look the type. Just be sure to give your wife the respect she deserves."

Okay, thanks for the counseling, even though it was completely inappropriate.

Of course there's also that little girl running around and bullying all the boys, the fact that there are probably more female followers than male ones, at least 1 female Jarl (there might be more, I'm not sure), and of course the fact that there are a plethora of female bandits and what not running around in full body armor and swinging a two handed battleaxe despite looking to be no more than maybe 150 lbs. or so.

The icing on the cake has to be Uthgerd the Unbroken though. Of course she opens with "You don't really know a Nord woman 'til you've had a drink and a fist fight with her."

Okey dokey.

THEN I mistakenly ask her about her history, just to find out that she tried to join the companions. But she was kicked out when, upon initiation, she was tasked to fight a younger male companion, so of course being the big strong independent woman she is, felt offended and killed him in the fight.

But that's obviously okay because it was just a guy dying. Guys die all the time and no one cares. Hell, guys as a whole commit at least several time more suicide all the time in real life and no one cares.

I don't know, the whole thing just irks me is all. It was satisfying to drag Uthgerd into a giants cave and firebomb her though.

 

[Quaxar]

Don't you worry your pretty little head, you wouldn't understand sexism anyway, you're just a guy.

 

[Phasmal]

`No one considers sexism can be aimed at men`?
Excuse me while I go laugh my arse off.

Every single mention of sexism gets a `men have it just as bad/worse` reaction (as if that makes it okay?).
If you're referring to that ONE quest in Skyrim that was pretty darn silly, then you've missed the bloody point.
Things can have sexist things IN THEM and not be sexist.
Either way, enjoy your shitstorm.

 

[Colour Scientist]

`No one considers sexism can be aimed at men`?
Excuse me while I go laugh my arse off.

Every single mention of sexism gets a `men have it just as bad/worse` reaction (as if that makes it okay?).
If you're referring to that ONE quest in Skyrim that was pretty darn silly, then you've missed the bloody point.
Things can have sexist things IN THEM and not be sexist.
Either way, enjoy your shitstorm.

This.
Everyone knows men can be raped or suffer domestic violence at the hands of a woman and that sexism can affect them.
Where have you been?
You can't utter the word sexism without a shit ton of people shouting " BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN?!", even if they weren't left out of the original statement.

Also, don't you want to discuss gun control instead? Come on Escapists, back into the gun control threads. Let's not have this again.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Usually, sexism is interchangeable with two distinct concepts. It can refer to sexual discrimination, which is unequal, unfair or adverse treatment on the grounds of one's sex. It can also refer to sexual prejudice, which refers to holding a preconceived notion of a person on the grounds of their sex (assuming someone is a prude because they're a woman, or that they're violent because they're a man).

/thread

 

[Uhura]

Though, to be fair, when I say "a gender" I'm mostly talking about women, because no one ever considers that sexism can be aimed at men. Yes, we really are just a bunch of uber-thick masses of muscle and flab that want to stick our man-meat in everything. Including our guns. And our vehicles. And more guns.

As other people already said, people are well aware that men suffer from sexism as well. What I'm curious about is that why didn't you make a thread about sexist portrayals of men in video games if it really bothers you?

 

[Angie7F]

Don't you worry your pretty little head, you wouldn't understand sexism anyway, you're just a guy.

Very good example
I think it is best when people accept that sexism exists, but come up with smart get backs to teach sexist people a lesson.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

What's with these threads than can easily be solved with a trip to the dictionary?

Sexism is passing judgment on someone based on their sex rather than individual merit.
Racism is passing judgment on someone based on their race rather than individual merit.
Ageism is passing judgment on someone based on their age rather than individual merit.

It's not THAT complicated people.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What's with these threads than can easily be solved with a trip to the dictionary?

Sexism is passing judgment on someone based on their sex rather than individual merit.
Racism is passing judgment on someone based on their race rather than individual merit.
Ageism is passing judgment on someone based on their age rather than individual merit.

It's not THAT complicated people.

Well, in fairness, dictionary definitions tend to be a bit limited.

You have various people who say that something isn't sexist (or racist/whatever) if the person keeps it to themselves. If someone thinks women are less than men, but does not voice that opinion or act on it, it doesn't count. I don't see how a person could avoid unconsciously acting on it if that's what they believed.

You also have people claiming the "prejudice plus power" thing, where it only counts if it's big enough to make a difference. If one person happens to think you are less because of your gender or race, it's not good, but most likely not too serious. If a massive demographic which mostly runs the important institutions of your state tend to think that, then you've got problems.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

What's with these threads than can easily be solved with a trip to the dictionary?

Sexism is passing judgment on someone based on their sex rather than individual merit.
Racism is passing judgment on someone based on their race rather than individual merit.
Ageism is passing judgment on someone based on their age rather than individual merit.

It's not THAT complicated people.

Well, in fairness, dictionary definitions tend to be a bit limited.

You have various people who say that something isn't sexist (or racist/whatever) if the person keeps it to themselves. If someone thinks women are less than men, but does not voice that opinion or act on it, it doesn't count. I don't see how a person could avoid unconsciously acting on it if that's what they believed.

You also have people claiming the "prejudice plus power" thing, where it only counts if it's big enough to make a difference. If one person happens to think you are less because of your gender or race, it's not good, but most likely not too serious. If a massive demographic which mostly runs the important institutions of your state tend to think that, then you've got problems.

The -isms ARE a big part of our unconscious and I'm not asking anybody to hide them. I think a lot of people try and complicate their definition to distance themselves from the -isms they - and everybody - toy with, blowing them way out of proportion, regardless of cause, effect or context. You say "if such and such, then it doesn't count". Well, obviously it still "counts" as an -ism, whatever its size. There's a definition for it, and offense isn't taken into the premise.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The -isms ARE a big part of our unconscious and I'm not asking anybody to hide them. I think a lot of people try and complicate their definition to distance themselves from the -isms they - and everybody - toy with, blowing them way out of proportion, regardless of cause, effect or context. You say "if such and such, then it doesn't count". Well, obviously it still "counts" as an -ism, whatever its size. There's a definition for it, and offense isn't taken into the premise.

I generally agree with that, but even if the expanded definitions aren't technically correct, I still see a value in being aware of them, if you see what I mean.

 

[IamQ]

Something we don't talk about.

Please.

This only going to end bad.

Spoiler

 

[xShredd]

Wow. That was the last thing in Skyrim that I thought someone would get offended by.

Consider the fact that this is directed against a fictional race, which has dialogue lines written by fiction writers, that only exists on a fictional world. Yeah, it is probably a serious subject to deal within the real world, but I can only laugh at you when you point at these lines as a proof of sexism.

 

[MetalMagpie]

*reads thread title*

*pops head around the door to see how thread is getting on*

OK, before we properly get going, why doesn't everyone have a read of a few of these threads:

The real problem with sexism [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.394118-The-real-problem-with-sexism]
Im super depressed about sexism in gaming [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385763-Im-super-depressed-about-sexism-in-gaming]
Lego and sexism [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.389774-Lego-and-sexism]
On the sexism and discrimination of women in the Gaming and Geek cultures [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.387905-On-the-sexism-and-discrimination-of-women-in-the-Gaming-and-Geek-cultures]
Feminists, please learn what sexism is and how it applies.
SEXISM! What's with the standards? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.353157-SEXISM-Whats-with-the-standards]

All the arguments you are about to make will be in one of those already.

(Use your handy searching abilities to find more.)

 

[Hagi]

So erm... you criticize people for calling Skyrim sexist and then proceed to call it sexist yourself?

 

[Thaluikhain]

As long as sexism against women exists, they can bully their way through anything they want in first world countries if they put their minds to it.

Which is why the religious, military, financial, political and industrial institutions of western nations tend to be dominated by men, and between 1 in 4 and 1 in 6 women in western countries will be raped during their lifetimes, with a single digits percentile chance the rapist/s will be convicted?

Yeah, all those initiative to try and stop the abuse and discrimination of women aren't really proof they've got it so much better.