The other day I watched a first impression video on a game called Katawa Shoujo. I found the first 20 minutes to be boring, melodramatic, and sappy. However, when I go look at various reviews, I hear nothing but positive things about it. For those who played and enjoyed the game, why did you like it? More broadly, why do people like visual novels in general? Not here to criticize per se, I'm just interested in people's opinions, especially fans.
Because I liked the story and characters (mostly). The stories were interesting and got pretty sad/dark in some of the bad endings. Can't say for fans of VN's though. KS is the only one I've played. I'd recommend trying it, even if you're not interested (I wasn't). It drags on a bit for the first 30-40 minutes, but it's gets very good.
Well " game" is giving it WAY too much credit . I "played" it way back when , my first VN . It was basically a story where i choose how the protagonist acts . For that paticular VN, the story was okay, it shows a lot of stereotypes people have about disabled people . It was a fun little time waster for the couple of hours it lasted . I don't know why people praised it . Maybe for having the courage to make a dating sim with disabled people ?
[small] i still wouldn't date a disabled person though [/small].
Well, Katawa Shoujo has some hentai. So there's why some people would like; it's every hardcore otaku's fantasy.
I'll be honest. I don't like visual novels. But when Katawa Shoujo came out, I was interested because people kept raving about the writing in the game and all. So I gave it a shot. And I must admit the writing IS really good. Yeah, it has some sappy love stories (Insecure girl, tomboyish girl, shy girl, etc.) and a couple of plot holes but it's enjoyable, especially because it's not about gratuitous sex scenes like most visual novels featuring hentai. You can lose in this game or simply go through a playthrough without any sex scenes.
It's really good for what it is and it came out of 4chan, so to speak. So yeah, it deserves some credit.
Well if you're playing KS for some hentai you're doing it wrong. There's 1 or 2 sex scenes per route, most of them are very , very soft-core and it takes about 3 hours to get to each one. Not exactly the best boner material.
Well if you're playing KS for some hentai you're doing it wrong. There's 1 or 2 sex scenes per route, most of them are very , very soft-core and it takes about 3 hours to get to each one. Not exactly the best boner material.
Yeah, I know. But hey, there's still people who are into that. I mean, it's the internet; it's not that hard to find some real porn. But...like I said, I can probably picture one of those shy guys from Japan out there who would play KS just for that.
[sub][sub]Disclaimer: I'm not saying all Japanese boys are like that! This could apply to anyone! It's just an example. [/sub][/sub]
The first 20 mins of any movie or even audio book are the most boring. Character introduction, setting up conflict, establishing any prologue if necessary, etc. The game walks you through the guy's feelings about going to a new school for "cripples" as he sees it. The love stuff is a tad corny or sappy at times but that's reality, especially when dealing with people who have insecurities.
I have only played that one VN, but it was very well written. I liked it because it is a bit more grounded than most stories, even those on the big screen. It reflects reality I ghuess is the best way to put it. None of the girls are gonna swoon because you were a big hero that defeated the monster that crawled out of a dimensional portal or used a cheap pick up line. The relationships are gradual and a history gets built up with a few of them before any romance even begins to bud. The only drawback I find in the game is Kenji. I want to punch that dude in the face and tell him to quit talking to me with his weird ass ramblings - and can't. Eventually, I just clicked through them semi-scanning those sequences. I know he is there for comic relief, but its more annoying than funny.
The story is so good though that its totally worth playing even with the sex scenes taken out. However, the sex scenes actually add yet another glimpse into the characters rather than just being cartoon porn. Let's put it this way, after playing through and getting Lilly, the writing was so touching that I didn't want to go through again right away. Lilly's story alone enough to appreciate the game. Now that I have talked about the game twice in the past week I will end up playing through again and seeing where I end up this time.
the story of course, mostly because they aren't really games, more like books, hence the name visual novels. i just wanted to find out what the whole feels fuzz was about, then I learned what feels are, they feel weird but good, and bad, and a whole lot more that i can't even begin to describe.
Okay generally there's a lot of things that I dislike about the idea of a visual novel, I find the clicking through a bit tiring and disruptive to pacing, but there's something to be said for having artwork and music.
However the best thing about interactive novels is their interactivity. Even if it's very minimal, interactivity isn't necessarily a thing that gets better the more you have of it. Being able to use the windscreen wipers in a racing game doesn't necessarily make the game better, there are some one button games that are awesome.
What I've found the interactivity does is it sometimes, when used well, allows the player to actually experience some of the feelings of a protagonist. For example, when you pick someone to go after in a dating Sim, thats the same thing the protagonist is experiencing and it means you're much more heavily invested in the relationship because _you_ were the person who aimed to pursue it (a problem that doesn't come over by watching a video of first impressions, although i think the first choice comes even later.
It gets used to an incredible extent in the Hanako line of Katawa Shoujo to the extent where it's been the most meaningful literary experience I#ve had so far. Its the only piece of fiction where I have immediately digested an important life lesson and used it to change my life. Basically
The options of the Hanako storyline are mainly taken if you're in the mind that you want to protect Hanako and help her come out of her shell. The game narrative slowly pulls you further into this idea to the extent that by continually choosing to pursue Hanako you're reinforcing this idea.
Then at the end of the game it turns it on its head and shows you that by pursuing that those ideas actually create a very one sided relationship where you've put a barrier between yourself and the other person by being the person who can "help" the other and it ultimately ends up hurting both of you. A relationship should be mutual and based on helping each other, not on white-knighting.
Yet I wish the genre didn't exist. Interactive works should be something where everyone picks the level and type of interation that will help them best. All of Katawa Shoujo's flaws come from it choosing interactivity because thats what happens in the genre. If they were tailoring their own level of interactivity, they wouldn't have made the mistake of mislabelling all the choices
krazykidd said:
Well " game" is giving it WAY too much credit . I "played" it way back when , my first VN . It was basically a story where i choose how the protagonist acts .
It has interactivity though and it uses that interactivity to greatly greatly strengthen the story. If i were reading it instead of playing it, it wouldn't have had nearly the same affect on me (see above). Under the currently accepted definition of game you're right, but the definition is stupid (includes a designed test of skill/challenge) and it lead to, for example, a lot of silly unnecessary things being added to Minecraft because Notch didn't "feel it was enough like a game" when he'd already crafted an experience that entertained millions.
There are so many ways to enjoy a game that basing it off tests of skill or challenge just doesn't make sense. It'S like defining films as something that contains 'comedy'. In my ideal world a game is anything that deliberately uses interaction for artistic purpose, at any level. And in that way Katawa Shoujo is a game, but not a particularly interactive one. When you say calling it a 'game' is giving it to much credit, thats automatically judging it by standards that would be silly to try and meet and suggests that having challenged based interactivity is automatically better. Yet what makes Saints Row good, isn't the challenge based missions but the sandboxed world. In the same way KS is good because of the narrative strengthened player choice. Like the Walking Dead
krazykidd said:
[small] i still wouldn't date a disabled person though [/small].
I guess its brave to be honest about something like this in front of everyone and I imagine you're being true to yourself. But it's a bit of a bad thing to do. Sorry. I don't mean your a bad person and lots of people (maybe even me, I don't know the opportunity has never arisen) probably share the attitude without the honesty to realise it, but its still not a nice thing I know that since the above might be read as an attack on you for calling it not a game (and I really didn't mean it like that. I have a personal campaign to change the word 'game' to mean an 'interactive work' and I just use any opportunity to talk about it) but I really don't having anything against you as a person (I've never met you =D)
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Finally the nice thing about KS was it wasn't ultimately about being disabled. Everyone had a disability and disabilities were the main focus, but every disability was used to prove larger life problems that every person faces and deals with
This goes for nearly all visual novels; the story. They're a kind of ebook, really, just using the format of a computer program to add music, images and sometimes (but not always) choices.
Like all media, visual novels have their share of utter shit but there's some good stuff out there if you're willing to look for it.
I wasn't overely keen on Katawa Shoujo, to be honest. The respect it paid to it's subject matter was great (even if it did get a little bit "anvillicous [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious]" at times) but I found the plots a bit predictable and I've never been overly keen on romance.
It's like reading books/manga crossed with a sim-style game thing. If you enjoy reading, anime themes and such things, as well as the general melodrama and cheesy/sappy elements prevalent in these, you're likely to enjoy visual novels.
If I were to recommend some to a beginner, try the Stein's Gate games or Blazblue's storymode.
Katawa Shoujo's really the only visual novel that I've looked into once I heard that the premise was tastefully done, despite what people expected.
I found one or two characters to be a bit grating, but I did enjoy the story once it picked up and surprisingly found it could be genuinely moving when it came down to it. So yeah, enjoyed more as a novel than as a game.
Because it leaves an emotional hole that you could fly a space shuttle through. Have you ever watched a show good enough to leave you feeling so spent after it's over that all you can do is curl into a ball, replay the last moments in your head a million times, and wait for enough feeling to return that you can enjoy other things again? Imagine that, but magnified a few times.
Can't say I'm convinced that I will ever try it myself, but I'm getting a good idea of why some people like it. It's like a romance novel, a well written one at that. The best written one in the world would be something that I would find tedious. Well, this dashes my conspiracy theory that people were afraid of saying anything bad about a 4chan produced visual novel for fear of reprisals from anonymous. I guess people authentically liking it makes more sense. Have fun with your stories, then.
I have read a lot of comments about how sad Katawa Shoujo is. Some people saying it is borderline depression inducing. Has this been your guy's experience? I downloaded it and have played a little but if it is nothing but a tear jerker then I don't think it is what I want in a "game" right now.
I have read a lot of comments about how sad Katawa Shoujo is. Some people saying it is borderline depression inducing. Has this been your guy's experience? I downloaded it and have played a little but if it is nothing but a tear jerker then I don't think it is what I want in a "game" right now.
I find that it's a peaceful middle ground between a novel and an anime (or movie). You aren't visualizing the characters in your mind because they're being presented to you, but that's part of the charm. It's a wholly different experience, as you get to enjoy visual beauty in unison with the writing (if it's equally as beautiful, which in Katawa's case is true). The mild interactivity helps strengthen the feeling that you are the protagonist, and is the logical conclusion of those "choose your own adventure" books without having 20 bookmarks.
In Katawa Shoujo's case, I was put off a bit by the use of the word "katawa", as in Japanese it's pretty much the word for "cripple" as opposed to "disabled". This gave me an incorrect notion that the game wouldn't tastefully explore that dynamic, but thankfully I was very wrong. Also, the fact that it was born out of ideas from an /a/ thread shouldn't discredit it. 4chan is not /b/, and /b/ is not 4chan. I recommend checking out some of the other boards, as there is plenty of levelheaded and insightful discussion to be found. You can also be banned (gasp!), so they aren't the free-for-all some imagine when they think of 4chan (and by extension /b/). Also, in case there's some confusion, Anonymous (the group) is not 4chan, and 4chan is not Anonymous (the group), there's just anons. I won't go into detail about it, just suggesting that /a/, /v/, and others aren't the cesspool some imagine they must be.
OT: Do you like books? Do you like reading? Are you old enough to remember the choose-your-own-adventure paperbacks? Do you want to romance cute teenage girls?
the only visual novel i played was Katawa Shoujo. I don't like Katawa Shoujo as "game" because it's not a "game".
it's more like a like a book with with music, visuals, with a tiny bit of interactivity that allow different paths/diffident dialog at times.
well only interactivity for 4 of the 5 stories I would say has interactive. seriously though if you try it(and you should) don't do Shizune's story first because it is the worst of the 5 and it has the least interactivity.
I have to say Katawa Shoujo is well written so I like it. I just treated like a book and I enjoyed it for what it was. It gave me some emotions and not many things do that. Also it's Free to download.
I made a thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.398445-I-beat-Katawa-Shoujo-and-I-recommend-it] about it recently so I have nothing more to type here.
Loop Stricken said:
Beautiful End said:
Well, Katawa Shoujo has some hentai. So there's why some people would like; it's every hardcore otaku's fantasy.
OT: Do you like books? Do you like reading? Are you old enough to remember the choose-your-own-adventure paperbacks? Do you want to romance cute teenage girls?
I can't say I have much interest In romance/friendship stories and Katawa Shoujo was well written enough for me to see all the 5 stories. so I don't think that a last one is a prerequisite.
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I know that since the above might be read as an attack on you for calling it not a game (and I really didn't mean it like that. I have a personal campaign to change the word 'game' to mean an 'interactive work' and I just use any opportunity to talk about it) but I really don't having anything against you as a person (I've never met you =D) 
