What is your definition of 'mature' sexual content?

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Mallefunction

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I guess I blame this one on Angry Joe for liking The Witcher 2's "romance" scenes. It just...makes me cringe seeing them honestly.

NOTE: The following is all my opinion. If you disagree, that's understandable, but please read the entire thing before writing your rebuttal.

I dunno, to me sex purely for the sake of sex appeal is not 'mature'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who supports banning nudity and sex from games and stuff...but it honestly bugs me to see all the pointless T&A in games. Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself and while I appreciate female beauty...I find seeing it in a VERY male sexual light very....awkward. Almost like I'm seeing something that isn't meant for ME as a player.

Let's face it, men and women both naturally have CRAZY sex drives, but they don't work exactly the same (Men are from Mars, women, Venus....the whole shabang). To me, when I see a hot woman very lovingly crafted only to have the camera pan over her in a ridiculously indulgent fashion...well, I no longer see a character. What I see is an animated stand in for porn. It's one thing to show off a character model, but another to just focus entirely on the money spots and nothing else. It's the construction of the entire scene which is only concerned with making those women look appealing to their target audience and no one else.

Personally, it drags me right out of the game when I see stuff like that. Sex scenes are fine, but those kinds of shots just...they look so out of place in a game where normally, the camera is either entirely in 3rd person or it's at least a few feet away from the character being addressed.

Just to show you that I'm not anti-sex, I'm going to use the sex scene in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood as a positive example. Yeah, the fact that it's VERY obvious they still have their clothes on is rather stupid, but the way it was animated and put together as a scene made the whole thing seem sensual even though it was ultimately casual sex between two characters who were in no way romantically involved. The camera occasionally went to a more pervy angle now and then, but for the most part, that cut scene didn't stand out enough to rip me out of the experience of playing a game. Even if there was nudity in it, I doubt that it would have ripped me away simply because of the way the nudity and sex was presented.

God of War (the first one...never played the others) also had tits, but there wasn't really a focus on them whenever they came up. The game just happened to have naked women. It was almost casual the way they were animated and shot. I remember when I first played through the tutorial and Kratos woke up in bed with two nude women that I was not at all disgusted or ripped away.

I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that games should not make such big deals of sex scenes when it doesn't fit the style of the rest of the game. Yeah, I know a lot of you are going to say that it's just escapist fantasy and that you want to enjoy it, but there are sex games out there. Do games with real stories and meaning need to have these jarring pander shots scattered throughout when there are others that are totally willing to fill that niche anyway?

Long winded rant aside, my ultimate point is that "True maturity is restraint" not rebellion NOR celibacy. You can make your character models as sexy as you want, but leave the camera be and don't render the sex scenes in an entirely different fashion from the rest of the game.

Well, that's my 2 cents. What do you all have to say? Rant away.

EDIT: Guys, you seem to be missing my point. It's NOT the fact that they have sex that bothers me! It is the way the camera pans over it that makes me uncomfortable to play. I wrote all this up here for a reason, to explain those feelings. Come on, it's not THAT long of a read.
 

mcattack92

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As long as the content used is relevant or improves the story. Other wise it shouldn't be in the game. No good having a sex or nude scene just because the designers thought 'TROLOLOLOL need random pointless sex scene'
 

bombadilillo

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Mature sexual content = prepubescent tripe specifically designed to titillate only people below the ratings supposed audience.
 

UmJammerSully

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Mallefunction said:
In Mass Effect 1 and 2, I thought those sex scenes were done tastefully enough. Don't think there's the whole gender slant on them either as you can play as a male or female and even have sex with either gender. (In ME2 at least, I know that much)

Strangely, a positive example you gave was God of War which I think is the worst example of it I have seen. I thought those bits were just...Dumb.

Can you give any more examples of bad ones? Particularly ones that you found were uncomfortable as a woman?
 

cainx10a

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Just curious, was the Witcher 2's sex scene 99.9% of the game, or just 0.01% of it? Was it executed in a way that was better than mass effect, dragon age, both in terms of content or how it lead to that particular act of debauchery between a mutant scum and villainous witch, or was it a genuine love making by two characters who cared about each other, or two adults having kinky dark ages sex?

Pretty sure I have watched more sex scenes that I could call 'disgusting' in actual movies, those weird European movies my brother seem addicted to. With nudity galore except it was apparently a social commentary on some other thing, but I was too busy having a (> . <) look on my face to caaareee.

Personally, I found the Witcher 2's sex scene, even ME and DA to be on the ohkeezaah side of things, and that might be the only games to have a sex scene that was there just for fan service's sake.
 

Mallefunction

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UmJammerSully said:
Mallefunction said:
In Mass Effect 1 and 2, I thought those sex scenes were done tastefully enough. Don't think there's the whole gender slant on them either as you can play as a male or female and even have sex with either gender. (In ME2 at least, I know that much)

Strangely, a positive example you gave was God of War which I think is the worst example of it I have seen. I thought those bits were just...Dumb.

Can you give any more examples of bad ones? Particularly ones that you found were uncomfortable as a woman?
Oh I agree with Mass Effect. Bioware tends to make their relationships tasteful. I honestly love going through all the romance options because it's wonderful to see how each character reacts and what it takes to earn their trust.

As for God of War, my point was that it wasn't jarring to see the nudity because of the way it was 'shot'. Also I was referencing only the first game. I know there are ridiculous sex scenes in the later games, but I've only bothered with the first.

More bad sex scenes? Well most of the time it's rarely a sex scene because I don't play games for the sex bits XD. I played Witcher because I got so many recommendations from my friends who know I love dark fantasy. However, even in the BEST games there is plenty of ridiculous pandering. Like Tomb Raider....half the time the camera is on her ass. Then Other M....ugh....way to ruin one of my favorite female characters, Ninja.

Like I said, it's not the model design, it's HOW it's shown off that makes me as a female gamer uncomfortable. I don't mind nudity at all. I'm a beginning photographer myself and I've done a few nude portraits both male and female. There are ways to make a scene look sexy without it being just money shot after money shot and that's what I'd like to see more in games.
 

Mallefunction

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cainx10a said:
Just curious, was the Witcher 2's sex scene 99.9% of the game, or just 0.01% of it? Was it executed in a way that was better than mass effect, dragon age, both in terms of content or how it lead to that particular act of debauchery between a mutant scum and villainous witch, or was it a genuine love making by two characters who cared about each other, or two adults having kinky dark ages sex?

Pretty sure I have watched more sex scenes that I could call 'disgusting' in actual movies, those weird European movies my brother seem addicted to. With nudity galore except it was apparently a social commentary on some other thing, but I was too busy having a (> . <) look on my face to caaareee.

Personally, I found the Witcher 2's sex scene, even ME and DA to be on the ohkeezaah side of things, and that might be the only games to have a sex scene that was there just for fan service's sake.
I'm not saying that the sex scene was 99% of the game. I'm saying that it completely jarred me out of the experience as a gamer because of the way it was 'shot'.

I honestly wouldn't compare The Witcher's sex scenes to Mass Effect since most of the focus is on the build up of the relationship, regardless of nudity. I never felt like the ME scenes were fan service.

Oh yeah, movies are plenty indulgent, but I am focusing on games because movies are NOT interactive. There is a lot more distance between watching a scene and playing a character who has sex.
 

Kahunaburger

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Mature sexual content has to make sense in context of the story and characters and effectively function as a storytelling technique. Just like, you know, everything else in the story :)

"Mature" sexual content is when sex is just thrown in there for titillation purposes.

RE: Witcher, that's one of my biggest problems with the game as well. Both because I'd imagine that women, like OP said, would feel creeped the heck out by some of the camera work. As a dude, I feel kind of disrespected as well. It's like "come on, CDProjekt, you made one of the best RPGs of the current generation - you don't need to throw T&A in my face to get me to want to play your game." Triss and Geralt should just have had a blanket in that opening scene.

And the double standard aspect is a little absurd - as a straight male, I would rather (if they want to put gratuitous nudity in their game, which they shouldn't) see a shot of a dude's butt than have the dude wear Dragon Age-style boxers in a sex scene that also features female nudity. It's not because I want to see some witcher's mutated butt, it's because that would mean there is less of an obvious double standard.

Also, considering that outside of the gratuitous nudity the particular relationship is portrayed with unusual (for a video game) skill, and the female character being objectified is one of the stronger characters in an RPG like this, it really cheapens both the relationship and the character to play the scenes up for fanservice.

To OP, and everyone else in this thread: do you have an opinion on the similar T&A in the Game of Thrones TV series, and if so, what is it? It strikes me as the closest parallel since it's also a well-written fantasy story based on a series of novels that plays up the nudity for some unfathomable reason. That's actually the reason I'm not watching it now haha - I wouldn't want to watch a show I'd feel uncomfortable watching with other people.

All this said, I'll take Witcher 2's gratuitous nudity and otherwise mature relationships over the gigglesquee abomination that romances in Bioware games seem to be slowly turning into. But is a game that develops relationships well AND portrays them tastefully too much to ask?
 

Mr. Omega

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I don't mind that the game has sex scenes. Good for them. And they got nice little cards of naked women. Cute. So this constitutes a "mature, adult" game? Seriously? I'm not against it by any means. But people are putting the Witcher 2's handling of sex as the best handling of sex in gaming.

On one hand:
REALLY? THIS is our highest standard of sex in video games? THIS? THIS is the gold standard? Are you serious?

On the other hand:
The sad part is... yeah, it kinda is. Not like the bar was that high up anyway...
 

scnj

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I think for sexual content to be mature it has to serve a purpose and be presented tastefully. That's not to say there has to be a deep connection between characters. If a character is a bit of a player who'll fuck anything that moves, then show that by all means, but don't do creepy lingering shots or anything else, otherwise I'l start to wonder if the animator was masturbating while coding it or something.
 

Kahunaburger

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cainx10a said:
Just curious, was the Witcher 2's sex scene 99.9% of the game, or just 0.01% of it? Was it executed in a way that was better than mass effect, dragon age, both in terms of content or how it lead to that particular act of debauchery between a mutant scum and villainous witch, or was it a genuine love making by two characters who cared about each other, or two adults having kinky dark ages sex?

Pretty sure I have watched more sex scenes that I could call 'disgusting' in actual movies, those weird European movies my brother seem addicted to. With nudity galore except it was apparently a social commentary on some other thing, but I was too busy having a (> . <) look on my face to caaareee.

Personally, I found the Witcher 2's sex scene, even ME and DA to be on the ohkeezaah side of things, and that might be the only games to have a sex scene that was there just for fan service's sake.
On the topic of European movies, this actually might be a cultural difference re: portraying female nudity. I'm thinking, oddly enough, of Amelie, which has gratuitous boobs and is rated R in the US and the PG-analogue in France.
 

Kahunaburger

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Mr. Omega said:
THIS? THIS is the gold standard? Are you serious?

On the other hand:
The sad part is... yeah, it kinda is. Not like the bar was that high up anyway...
Haha, sad but true. There's probably something really obscure that has sexual content and does it better. Catherine might - apparently it's out in Japan, so there are probably some reviews floating around.
 

Mallefunction

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Kahunaburger said:
To OP, and everyone else in this thread: do you have an opinion on the similar T&A in the Game of Thrones TV series, and if so, what is it? It strikes me as the closest parallel since it's also a well-written fantasy story based on a series of novels that plays up the nudity for some unfathomable reason. That's actually the reason I'm not watching it now haha - I wouldn't want to watch a show I'd feel uncomfortable watching with other people.
Can't say I've ever watched Game of Thrones, but it is an HBO show...they ALWAYS have sex scenes. It's kind of their thing. XD I dunno, I liked them in ROME because it fit with the story.

But yeah, I understand that. That's one of the reasons I can't play some of my games near my mother. Just seeing Ethan's ass in Heavy Rain made her FREAK out.
 

Kahunaburger

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Mallefunction said:
Kahunaburger said:
To OP, and everyone else in this thread: do you have an opinion on the similar T&A in the Game of Thrones TV series, and if so, what is it? It strikes me as the closest parallel since it's also a well-written fantasy story based on a series of novels that plays up the nudity for some unfathomable reason. That's actually the reason I'm not watching it now haha - I wouldn't want to watch a show I'd feel uncomfortable watching with other people.
Can't say I've ever watched Game of Thrones, but it is an HBO show...they ALWAYS have sex scenes. It's kind of their thing. XD I dunno, I liked them in ROME because it fit with the story.

But yeah, I understand that. That's one of the reasons I can't play some of my games near my mother. Just seeing Ethan's ass in Heavy Rain made her FREAK out.
That was kind of my thought on Witcher stuff - that series really is kind of the video game equivalent of an HBO show in some ways haha. But it still annoys the crap out of me and, yeah, is massively awkward. I wouldn't want my gf to look over my shoulder when I'm playing and be all "scuse me, WTF is this game?"
 

cainx10a

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Mallefunction said:
cainx10a said:
Just curious, was the Witcher 2's sex scene 99.9% of the game, or just 0.01% of it? Was it executed in a way that was better than mass effect, dragon age, both in terms of content or how it lead to that particular act of debauchery between a mutant scum and villainous witch, or was it a genuine love making by two characters who cared about each other, or two adults having kinky dark ages sex?

Pretty sure I have watched more sex scenes that I could call 'disgusting' in actual movies, those weird European movies my brother seem addicted to. With nudity galore except it was apparently a social commentary on some other thing, but I was too busy having a (> . <) look on my face to caaareee.

Personally, I found the Witcher 2's sex scene, even ME and DA to be on the ohkeezaah side of things, and that might be the only games to have a sex scene that was there just for fan service's sake.
I'm not saying that the sex scene was 99% of the game. I'm saying that it completely jarred me out of the experience as a gamer because of the way it was 'shot'.

I honestly wouldn't compare The Witcher's sex scenes to Mass Effect since most of the focus is on the build up of the relationship, regardless of nudity. I never felt like the ME scenes were fan service.

Oh yeah, movies are plenty indulgent, but I am focusing on games because movies are NOT interactive. There is a lot more distance between watching a scene and playing a character who has sex.
Games like the Witcher are closer to interactive movies than Mass Effect would be, in the sense that, Geralt is his own man. He is not you. Cmdr. Sheppie is actually 'you'. Also, Geralt and Trish have been together for a very long time according to the story, sure, Geralt has some trouble keeping his weiner (unrelately to a certain politician) in his pants, but for the short amount of time you get to mess around with Geralt in his little world, there's enough info shoved up our gamer's dunghole to figure out that, they are a pretty lovey dovey couple. Same as those tali-lovers would love to think they are(wait till she removes her mask and reveal her she-goat face :p).

Maybe I am just a male desensitized to sex on TeeVee, too much porn or too much spartacus might be the culprit, but I still think the explicit sex scenes in the witcher is at a respectable level. Not to mention the humor that came along with that one, think 3 bandits talking about a certain tale, while Geralt and his weiner are getting a more practical adventure.
 

Mallefunction

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Kahunaburger said:
Mallefunction said:
Kahunaburger said:
To OP, and everyone else in this thread: do you have an opinion on the similar T&A in the Game of Thrones TV series, and if so, what is it? It strikes me as the closest parallel since it's also a well-written fantasy story based on a series of novels that plays up the nudity for some unfathomable reason. That's actually the reason I'm not watching it now haha - I wouldn't want to watch a show I'd feel uncomfortable watching with other people.
Can't say I've ever watched Game of Thrones, but it is an HBO show...they ALWAYS have sex scenes. It's kind of their thing. XD I dunno, I liked them in ROME because it fit with the story.

But yeah, I understand that. That's one of the reasons I can't play some of my games near my mother. Just seeing Ethan's ass in Heavy Rain made her FREAK out.
That was kind of my thought on Witcher stuff - that series really is kind of the video game equivalent of an HBO show in some ways haha. But it still annoys the crap out of me and, yeah, is massively awkward. I wouldn't want my gf to look over my shoulder when I'm playing and be all "scuse me, WTF is this game?"
I dunno, the difference to me is that you are playing as these characters rather than just watching them. Don't get me wrong, sex scenes in movies and shows are still awkward and weird...but it's worse to me if it's a game.

Even if a game is not an RPG, you still graft yourself onto the lead, partially making them into your own interpretation. When I play through those sex scenes, I don't feel at all like they were meant for me as a straight woman to be seeing or enjoying. It alienates me mentally and takes me out of the story.
 

Mallefunction

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cainx10a said:
Games like the Witcher are closer to interactive movies than Mass Effect would be, in the sense that, Geralt is his own man. He is not you. Cmdr. Sheppie is actually 'you'. Also, Geralt and Trish have been together for a very long time according to the story, sure, Geralt has some trouble keeping his weiner (unrelately to a certain politician) in his pants, but for the short amount of time you get to mess around with Geralt in his little world, there's enough info shoved up our gamer's dunghole to figure out that, they are a pretty lovey dovey couple. Same as those tali-lovers would love to think they are(wait till she removes her mask and reveal her she-goat face :p).

Maybe I am just a male desensitized to sex on TeeVee, too much porn or too much spartacus might be the culprit, but I still think the explicit sex scenes in the witcher is at a respectable level. Not to mention the humor that came along with that one, think 3 bandits talking about a certain tale, while Geralt and his weiner are getting a more practical adventure.
Even so, I am playing as him and interacting in his world. It's not just him who is running the story. And even if I didn't create the character, it's still an RPG. I'm still taking on his role in the story.

And you are missing the point of my rant. It's not that they are HAVING sex, it's the way the sex is shot. The way the scene is done makes it seem separate from the game and it makes me as a woman uncomfortable because of how it pans over her body, as if the game is expecting me to be drooling. It's not done in a tongue-and-cheek manner, it's just pandering.
 

Kahunaburger

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Mallefunction said:
Kahunaburger said:
Mallefunction said:
Kahunaburger said:
To OP, and everyone else in this thread: do you have an opinion on the similar T&A in the Game of Thrones TV series, and if so, what is it? It strikes me as the closest parallel since it's also a well-written fantasy story based on a series of novels that plays up the nudity for some unfathomable reason. That's actually the reason I'm not watching it now haha - I wouldn't want to watch a show I'd feel uncomfortable watching with other people.
Can't say I've ever watched Game of Thrones, but it is an HBO show...they ALWAYS have sex scenes. It's kind of their thing. XD I dunno, I liked them in ROME because it fit with the story.

But yeah, I understand that. That's one of the reasons I can't play some of my games near my mother. Just seeing Ethan's ass in Heavy Rain made her FREAK out.
That was kind of my thought on Witcher stuff - that series really is kind of the video game equivalent of an HBO show in some ways haha. But it still annoys the crap out of me and, yeah, is massively awkward. I wouldn't want my gf to look over my shoulder when I'm playing and be all "scuse me, WTF is this game?"
I dunno, the difference to me is that you are playing as these characters rather than just watching them. Don't get me wrong, sex scenes in movies and shows are still awkward and weird...but it's worse to me if it's a game.

Even if a game is not an RPG, you still graft yourself onto the lead, partially making them into your own interpretation. When I play through those sex scenes, I don't feel at all like they were meant for me as a straight woman to be seeing or enjoying. It alienates me mentally and takes me out of the story.
Yeah, that's fair. It might be that, as a dude, I'm not noticing this sort of dissonance. I also tend to see cutscenes in Witcher games as less "me playing a role" and more "me watching a story," but that's a personal reaction that I can imagine not everyone shares. But yeah, I totally get where you're coming from on this.
 

LostCrusader

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I could think of a few more terrible examples of this for you. First one that comes to mind is Dante's Inferno, I was excited for the game until the demo came out and half of it was boobs making it feel like they were aiming for the 14 year old kids. Another bad example of "mature" sexual content would be Conan, which had naked women chained up everywhere and would zoom in and change the camera angle anytime you got close.