What is your favorite paradox?

[zarix2311]

...Let's do this.

"This Statement is false"

 

[madwarper]

Back to the Future's time travel and manipulation of past events.

If McFly didn't reunite his parents, then he wouldn't have been born (as his fading away implied).
If he wasn't born, he couldn't have traveled back in time.
If he didn't travel back in time, he couldn't have interfered with his parents having meet and getting together.

Also, since he did get them back together, but altered the timeline, leaving his present self in an affluent family where he is popular. As such, he most likely wouldn't have been hanging around with Doc in the first place and... See above.

 

[Marter]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

 

[wintercoat]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

 

[axlryder]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

 

[wintercoat]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

 

[axlryder]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

 

[wintercoat]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

The events unfold as such: 'Pinocchio says "my nose will grow now" -> 'his nose does not grow' -> 'a lie is registered and the curse activates' -> 'his nose grows'. His nose growing does not negate the 'his nose does not grow' event, therefor, the lie stands. Not a paradox.

 

[axlryder]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

The events unfold as such: 'Pinocchio says "my nose will grow now" -> 'his nose does not grow' -> 'a lie is registered and the curse activates' -> 'his nose grows'. His nose growing does not negate the 'his nose does not grow' event, therefor, the lie stands. Not a paradox.

Right, but the point is that the "now" still has to factor in there. "Now" MUST pass before the statement is deemed a lie. It's just a vague, subjective term, which is what I was questioning. Now could be a nano second, a full second, somewhere in between (maybe longer?). Ultimately I would think Pinocchio himself would be the one who determined how long "now" lasted, considering the lies being considered lies are likely based on his own subjective consciousness. So that's when the event would pass and the curse kick in.

Of course, if the lies weren't subjective, then it would be quite the quandary. I wonder what would happen if he said something he thought to be true, but objectively wasn't. It would certainly be helpful in the old "god" debate.

 

[rayen020]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

The events unfold as such: 'Pinocchio says "my nose will grow now" -> 'his nose does not grow' -> 'a lie is registered and the curse activates' -> 'his nose grows'. His nose growing does not negate the 'his nose does not grow' event, therefor, the lie stands. Not a paradox.

Right, but the point is that the "now" still has to factor in there. "Now" MUST pass before the statement is deemed a lie. It's just a vague, subjective term, which is what I was questioning. Now could be a nano second, a full second, somewhere in between (maybe longer?). Ultimately I would think Pinocchio himself would be the one who determined how long "now" lasted, considering the lies being considered lies are likely based on his own subjective consciousness. So that's when the event would pass and the curse kick in.

Of course, if the lies weren't subjective, then it would be quite the quandary. I wonder what would happen if he said something he thought to be true, but objectively wasn't. It would certainly be helpful in the old "god" debate.

you guys do realize you're arguing a paradox.

is the glass half full or half empty. Although not so much strictly a paradox as a test for optimism or pessimism.

Also the mathmatics one.

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

 

[wintercoat]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

The events unfold as such: 'Pinocchio says "my nose will grow now" -> 'his nose does not grow' -> 'a lie is registered and the curse activates' -> 'his nose grows'. His nose growing does not negate the 'his nose does not grow' event, therefor, the lie stands. Not a paradox.

Right, but the point is that the "now" still has to factor in there. "Now" MUST pass before the statement is deemed a lie. It's just a vague, subjective term, which is what I was questioning. Now could be a nano second, a full second, somewhere in between (maybe longer?). Ultimately I would think Pinocchio himself would be the one who determined how long "now" lasted, considering the lies being considered lies are likely based on his own subjective consciousness. So that's when the event would pass and the curse kick in.

Of course, if the lies weren't subjective, then it would be quite the quandary. I wonder what would happen if he said something he thought to be true, but objectively wasn't.

Exactly. The curse can't activate until the time-frame 'now' completes. And 'now' will always include the event 'his nose does not grow' unless he tells a lie. Therefor, without another statement which is concluded to be a lie, the curse enacts, ending the 'now' time-frame, his nose grows, and no paradox forms.

It would be interesting to see what would happen were Pinocchio to say "this curse is unfair". Clearly he's shown through his disdain of his nose growing that he truly believes this to be true, but the fairy believes it's a fair stipulation to giving him life. Who's opinion matters? Is Pinocchio's views the ones taken into consideration because the curse is effecting him? Or does it work off of the views of the spell's caster? And if it does, does it work off of their views when the spell is cast, or when the lie is told?

 

[axlryder]

Pinocchio says, "My nose will grow now."

What happens?

His nose did not grow, therefor he lied, therefor it grew. This does not make his previous statement automatically true instead of false.

yeah, but how long before the statement "expires" and is deemed a lie?

As soon as the curse kicks in. The moment the curse activates the parameters for "now" changes, as a new event took place.

That would be my question though. What exactly defines the parameters of "now" in the first place? The curse activating is entirely dependent on a the statement being deemed a lie, I would think. So "now" would have had to have passed. I suppose it would be based off of Pinocchio's own perceptions of time and what amount of it passing would exempt it from being "now"....I guess.

The events unfold as such: 'Pinocchio says "my nose will grow now" -> 'his nose does not grow' -> 'a lie is registered and the curse activates' -> 'his nose grows'. His nose growing does not negate the 'his nose does not grow' event, therefor, the lie stands. Not a paradox.

Right, but the point is that the "now" still has to factor in there. "Now" MUST pass before the statement is deemed a lie. It's just a vague, subjective term, which is what I was questioning. Now could be a nano second, a full second, somewhere in between (maybe longer?). Ultimately I would think Pinocchio himself would be the one who determined how long "now" lasted, considering the lies being considered lies are likely based on his own subjective consciousness. So that's when the event would pass and the curse kick in.

Of course, if the lies weren't subjective, then it would be quite the quandary. I wonder what would happen if he said something he thought to be true, but objectively wasn't.

Exactly. The curse can't activate until the time-frame 'now' completes. And 'now' will always include the event 'his nose does not grow' unless he tells a lie. Therefor, without another statement which is concluded to be a lie, the curse enacts, ending the 'now' time-frame, his nose grows, and no paradox forms.

It would be interesting to see what would happen were Pinocchio to say "this curse is unfair". Clearly he's shown through his disdain of his nose growing that he truly believes this to be true, but the fairy believes it's a fair stipulation to giving him life. Who's opinion matters? Is Pinocchio's views the ones taken into consideration because the curse is effecting him? Or does it work off of the views of the spell's caster? And if it does, does it work off of their views when the spell is cast, or when the lie is told?

exactly, this lore requires expansion... Just saying that almost makes me think some sort of Disney D&D would be kind of cool in a novel sort of way.

 

[The Thinker]

Pinocchio snip!

Also snip!

Guys, let me fix this for you. Pinocchio says "My nose will grow as a result of this statement".

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

 

[wintercoat]

Pinocchio snip!

Also snip!

Guys, let me fix this for you. Pinocchio says "My nose will grow as a result of this statement".

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

Way to ruin my fun

OT: My favorite paradox is and will always be the classic grandfather paradox. It's straight and to the point, with no ambiguity, and is a great example of a paradox.

 

[axlryder]

Pinocchio snip!

Also snip!

Guys, let me fix this for you. Pinocchio says "My nose will grow as a result of this statement".

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

hmm interesting, because even something tangentially related to that statement that makes his nose grow could still be deemed a result of that statement, making "separate events" irrelevant, thus enforcing a paradox. At least, I think. Also, I think the flaw comes in where 1/3 is turned into .33334. I'm pretty sure 1/3 is still just .3 repeating.

 

[rayen020]

.

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

Sorry, i should have separated those. The second two refer to if you round .3 repeating up to .34 in order to not have .3 repeating.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Why this one of course. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/mParadox]

[HEADING=2]ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES![/HEADING]

 

[The Thinker]

.

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

Sorry, i should have separated those. The second two refer to if you round .3 repeating up to .34 in order to not have .3 repeating.

So the paradox is that rounding up makes your numbers erroneously go up?

 

[Rakun Man]

Spoiler: Catch-22

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

EDIT:

.

1 / 3 = 0.3333_
0.33333_ x 3 = 0.9999_
1 / 3 = 0.33334
0.33334 x 3 = 1.00002

... i don't know what the symbol for infinite repeating is...

?

.3 repeating =/= .33334, or even .3 repeating 4

Sorry, i should have separated those. The second two refer to if you round .3 repeating up to .34 in order to not have .3 repeating.

So the paradox is that rounding up makes your numbers erroneously go up?

I think he meant

1/3=.3333...
3*1/3=3*.33333
1=.999...