What makes a good bossfight?

[kommando367]

I'd like to think most of us of seen a good variety of bossfights in games from the intense 1 on 1 fights in the last stages of fighting games, to big dudes with big guns, to the massive creatures found in Devil May Cry, Shadow of the Colossus, and the like.

But I'm not here to talk about specific bosses, I'm here to talk about their tactics and what tactics make the best bossfights.
There are a lot of different ways to make a boss challenging and test your skill with a game.

.They can have attack patterns which you must memorize to defeat them.

.They can have bullet sponge health which forces the player to study their tactics so they can endure the bossfight long enough to defeat it.

.They can have their minions distract you, or even overwhelm you.

.They can test your reflexes by making you block, dodge, counter, and or use QTEs to eliminate them.

.They can have a timer that forces the player to be aggressive and may have the boss use that aggression against the player in some way.

.They can force the player to adapt by using mechanics not used or not used much in a game or sometimes by adapting to a player's tactics, rendering them useless.

So I ask you, what tactics or combinations of tactics do you believe make the best and most satisfying bossfights?

 

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

Pretty much what you listed but add in a decent and satisfying combat system. I'm not going to enjoy a boss fight if all you can do is shoot at a monster or have hardly any melee attacks (see Borderlands and every single "boss" in the Elder Scrolls series).

 

[Burig]

Depends on the game really.
I love being able to use stealth on a boss fight, but only when there is stealth in the game (i.e. for Deus Ex HR's DLC - can't remember the name of it though).
Although, having more tactical fights can be fun in third person shooters.
And having b*lls-to-the-wall all-out-action no-sense-included fights (i.e. Beonetta) can be equally fun.

I dislike moves that are unavoidable and can take down a load of your health (a lot of final fantasy games, but that's negated in badness for me), as well as bosses that once you kill them, the dev's manage to bring them back with full health with some stupid clause. If you want to have a bit of talking in the fight, or something happen, then have him do something that forces the battle to stop and go to a cutscene for a bit.

I'm sure there are many many other little annoyances I have, but the rest would be fewer and further between (such as boss fights on platforms that you can fall off, and spend a few minutes having to get back up whilst the boss can attack you with ranged attacks).
Oh, and bosses being able to sense where you are in stealth games.

 

[krazykidd]

My favorite boss fights have bosses with multiple forms . Thus basically endurance fights where things change up once or twice ( or 13 fcking times if we are talkig about Nyx from Persona 3 ). What this does it require me to have a strategy for each part of the fight while trying to keep my party alive ( and doing damage ) while trying to not run out of magic .

Of course you could always overlevel yourself , but thats boring . I liked how SMT: strage journy did the final boss fight . 3 forms , last form can still kill you st max level if you got too cocky ( or rolled a 2 in luck in life ).

Capcha: good morning . It's 5 am here ( insomnia ) i swear the capchas are sentinent .

 

[dimensional]

a good boss fight will be memorable it will be fair it will offer a challenge (usually) but not a near insurmountable one and most of all it will be fun to take part in not just once but multiple times. There is no tick box list to making a good boss fight as handy as that would be as one mans meat is another mans poison and all that you have to decide what you want in based on the feel of the game and the target audience.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I think we can boil it down to 3:
- attack patterns
- weaknesses and strengths
- multiple stages (each stage changing patterns and weaknesses)

Absurd amounts of health and QTE is just lazy bullshit for devs who don't want to do the work properly.

 

[Scarim Coral]

To me a good boss fight got to be challanging while not too hard so that way you feel satisfy when you defeat the boss.
Also there must some feeling of epicness for it to be memorable.
Lastly there must be a statergy or at least getting you to "think" in order to defeat the boss (does the boss got a attack pattern or weakspot)? Just bashing or shooting the boss over and over is just full.

 

[Draxz]

That's something actually. See, compared to old PS1 and PS2 games, PS3 (Sorry if I'm being 'general' in the wrong way, I'm just generalizing by the console; not games as such) seems to not have that big juicy climax of destroying 'the boss' as what PS1&2 did. Maybe I'm being rather biased or too common but I found that in most games, such as: Crash, Spyro, Command&Conquer/Red Alert, Tekken (I think?), Ratchet and Clank, Shadow of Colossus, Monster Hunter, Space Invaders (I went there), and all those games you can think of: had a main boss/enemy at the end you destroyed. And they weren't always massively-complex. As in: impossible to beat because they were the strongest. I mean, when you beat them and completed the game, it felt good to feel like you jizzed... Came to the climax of the game...

Though, in recent games, I've found "Wait, am I playing older games and that's why there's no 'real boss' or was it younger game-play?" Personally, I think it's both. Maybe it's because I was born as a "90's kid" or something but something tells me that it's to do with the games o.e

Mass Effect 3 ending = LOL, no boss fight
CoD3: Hang a guy from a roof
BF3: Beat Solomon into submission for your enormous penis.
Darksiders: ... Ohno wait, that was like a proper boss fight.
Uhhh....
Fall Out(s): Well, New Vegas wasn't too hard... All I had to do was say a few things and the guy ran off like a complete pussy ._. And in 3, you... Well... It was a fucking shit end, considering you have all these amazing guns and shit but you have to let someone die (including yourself in that possibility) WHICH WAS FUCKING SHIT. I actually don't understand the ending to 3, and I never will... But then again, I don't understand why I even finished it. Going back on myself in New Vegas on Hardcore has seen better days on my account. Though, it's kept my occupied. (I should probably buy the extensions... I feel like a "noob", having the Alien-gun on 3 and never being abducted).

Going back to the point, I suppose after ranting to myself (I do this often, if you listen to me enough, it sounds like I'm talking to myself o.e) I think it depends on the genre of game.

What I want is a game LIKE Fall Out, Elder Scrolls, Monster Hunter, Rage, Jak, (trying to go away from Bethesda) or something, that when I've completed the game, I can go on and continue doing my own thing. I suppose there's not a lot to do in a game you've completed, apart from to go back and do other quests but why did I do that with Fall Out and the Elder Scrolls? It was because I genuinely enjoyed being a part of another world/ life and feeling like I was my own character. I'm not asking for another: Minecraft, Runescape or World of Warcraft, I just want a game that continues some kind of opening if the boss fight was shit or you're going to send me back!

Okay, please go back a paragraph or 2. I did mention games like: BF and CoD. Games like that wouldn't work as a 'follow-on, do whatever you like' end because the obvious ending is a boss and that's not the kind of game we're on about.

I think I'm asking for a game we're I actually feel like I had meaning, where a lot more is open and you can continue being that person, day to day.

What about a MMO like Fall Out? No idea how that would even work in a very-long-shot but I'd like to see that...

Now to be slapped by somebody for being a dumbass and posting this.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

Really good music is quite a good point

Or in some cases, no music at all

 

[Frankster]

1) Awesome music to complement the action

2) A boss that doesn't roll down and die too easily (so fight lasts long enough for the cool music to be playing)

3) The possibility for a bit of back and forth between player and boss, so it looks like a struggle rather then a 1 sided fight as is common with bosses where you have to memorize attack patterns and when you actually do, boss can't get a hit on you.

 

[skywolfblue]

They can have attack patterns which you must memorize to defeat them.

I hate "memorization" bosses. You should be able to complete the boss on the first round if you're good enough without having to fail over and over to memorize a fixed pattern. A good boss should be intuitive*.

*Intuitive doesn't mean "easy". You should have an idea of what to do, but being able to pull it off is where the hard part comes in.

They can have bullet sponge health which forces the player to study their tactics so they can endure the bossfight long enough to defeat it.

Health should be reasonable. The boss shouldn't fall over in two seconds, but neither should it take hours.

They can have their minions distract you, or even overwhelm you.

They can test your reflexes by making you block, dodge, counter, and or use QTEs to eliminate them.

They can have a timer that forces the player to be aggressive and may have the boss use that aggression against the player in some way.

All those are good.

They can force the player to adapt by using mechanics not used or not used much in a game or sometimes by adapting to a player's tactics, rendering them useless.

If they use a new mechanic, it should be hinted at, not something silly like "you remember that turkey bone you picked up in the middle of a dungeon at level 2? you need it to defeat this boss". A good example would be: Giving the player flight form and showing a little animation at the start of the fight and then having them use it in the fight.

To add some of my own:

- Stages/Phases: As the boss fight progresses, the fight changes.

- Uniqueness: The boss fight should be different.

- Setting: Don't stick a boss in a generic room. Have it be a fight to the death on a bridge over boiling lava or on the top of a crumbling skyscraper.

 

[Two-A]

A good boss fight is a test of what you have learned to do in the game, so it depends on the game.

For example: A shooting boss fight in what was previously a stealth game is a bad one, because it feels out of place

 

[Deathmageddon]

I like the bosses in Castlevania: LoS. Most of them were really fun and memorable.

 

[Matt King]

i think the most important things are (most these are found in shadow of the colossus)
a sense of threat and i'm not talking how much damage the boss actually does, it's why most of the boss fights in da didn't feel that great, because they don't really have any weight to them, that and they're essentially fought the same as every other monster, or they need to feel epic or climactic

 

[thespyisdead]

a good boss example would be ME2 on insanity...

the targets remained more or less the same, but the bloody amount of shit that came at you made it all that much harder. anything easier in that game is just a joke though

 

[Random Argument Man]

I don't like a bullet-sponge that just takes a long while to kill. I really love a boss fight that always has a "ace-in the hole". Just when you think you're going to win, he flips the situation.

Although, I think boss-fights should be about build-up and execution. I think about FF9 and Kuja. Kuja was built as "the guy that must be stopped at all costs" for about 3/4 of the game. The first time you enter a real battle with him, he pulls an "I win" card with ulitma. He does it a second time at the end of the game. The game pretty much shows you that he's force to be reckoned with. And then...they do the one thing that I don't like about my favorite Final Fantasy game...Necron. Necron just pops out of nowhere and decides that he's the final boss. (And pretty much my no.1 cheap FF boss in the whole series).

So Final Fantasy 9 just prove how to make a good boss and a bad one.

Another example would be a stage from the old school Castlevania. The stages were really hard and ask you to be real smart with your approach. Are the bosses easy? No, they pretty much demand that you have to be ready before a fight. To beat an old-school castlevania, you didn't just needed to memorize stages, you needed to be smart and be prepared. Beating a boss with the right approach felt satisfying.

And I still haven't finished the first game.

 

[Burig]

Was playing FFIV on the Dark Elf boss. Despite all my other attacks (from one of my characters) doing in the 600 to 1000 range on the enemies in the area, his hit rate dropped from about 90% to 10%, and his damage went down to 60 - 90.
Hate when they do that.

 

[ReadyAmyFire]

A felt Ace Combat had good bosses. Especially the Yellow squadron, who had the same amount of health as you* but could generally outmaneuver you.

*The first time you encounter them, they are actually invincible, as you're told to just run away from them.

 

[K84]

I finished the The End boss battle in MGS3 HD on my Vita today,
and i felt the same rush as i did years ago.

Just that old man watching you **** up and then shooting you, so you crawl around,
use your items, look for him, slowly crawl towards him, or snipe him from afar.
So many ways.
Even the fact you can kill him earlier in the game.

Such innovation should be applied to boss battles.

Maybe mixed with a bit of Deus Ex "talking your way out of it"
NOT Human Revolution...... gawd...regular enemies gave me more trouble.