I have a quick question for all of you out there. Bosses are always a game's highlight for me, be it for interesting gameplay mechanics, story significance, or just the sheer atmosphere of the fight. So, what do you think it takes to create a fantastic boss battle? Also, what is most important to you when it comes to these level or area-ending showdowns; gameplay, the plot surrounding the fight/your adversary, or atmosphere(soundtrack, arena/level design)? I'm interested to hear your opinions on this one!
What Makes A Truly Fantastic Boss Battle?
- Thread starter Bradach Donachad
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My perfect boss battle: not too easy, not too hard, doesn't require luck or reaction times rivalling Sonic on Speed, requires some thinking as it uses all (or most, let's not be greedy) the aspects of the game previously seen, doesn't last too long (looking at you Yiazmat), has a kick-ass soundtrack, has no camera problems (i.e. it's in a big open area or the devs managed to make a cramped area fight a non issue for the camera) and is relevant to the story (not something that you fight just because there has to be a boss at the end of a level).
This:
I like when bosses present a natural progression of challenging the skills you've obtained throughout the game, but without feeling like an artificial spike in difficulty due to absurd amounts of health or cheap, poorly-telegraphed instant-kill attacks.
They shouldn't just feel like extra powerful versions of normal enemies you've been fighting, though. Having played World of Warcraft for five and a half years, I like when boss fights have phases, where they'll switch up their attacks and patterns as the fight goes on. A good memorable theme is always highly appreciated as well, though area designs are something I can take or leave. I don't particularly like when the environment actively factors into a boss fight, especially if the mechanics of the game itself aren't suited for the task. Obvious exceptions for the likes of Shadow of the Colossus, which uses the environment in magnificent ways and, alongside Metal Gear Rising, is top of my list for "How To Do Boss Fights Correctly".
I like when bosses present a natural progression of challenging the skills you've obtained throughout the game, but without feeling like an artificial spike in difficulty due to absurd amounts of health or cheap, poorly-telegraphed instant-kill attacks.
They shouldn't just feel like extra powerful versions of normal enemies you've been fighting, though. Having played World of Warcraft for five and a half years, I like when boss fights have phases, where they'll switch up their attacks and patterns as the fight goes on. A good memorable theme is always highly appreciated as well, though area designs are something I can take or leave. I don't particularly like when the environment actively factors into a boss fight, especially if the mechanics of the game itself aren't suited for the task. Obvious exceptions for the likes of Shadow of the Colossus, which uses the environment in magnificent ways and, alongside Metal Gear Rising, is top of my list for "How To Do Boss Fights Correctly".
Balanced, but hard difficulty. A great soundtrack. Having the game show you demonstrate all the skills you've learnt over the course of your time. Having your enemy either be an equal to you or objectively more powerful so when you do defeat them it feels down to your personal skill.
So, two examples of this would be:
It's hard to find decent videos of these fights but if/when you play them my point will probably get across.
So, two examples of this would be:
It's hard to find decent videos of these fights but if/when you play them my point will probably get across.
One thing that always annoys me about boss battles is when they don't play by the rules of the rest of the game. If every other enemy in the game can have some of their attacks interrupted or if they leave gaps after certain attacks to allow a player to go on the offensive but the bosses clearly don't then it becomes a major issue.
Another couple of boss fight pet peeves of mine are the bloated punching bag and the "wacky/unique" boss.
Bosses should definitely be tougher than your standard enemy, maybe even drastically so, but a boss fight should never be boring just because the boss has ton of HP to whittle away, especially if there aren't any tricks or techniques than can be used to speed things up. If a fight takes forever because you're doing it wrong then that's one thing, but if the fight takes forever because the boss has just been given a stupid amount of HP then that's bad design.
As for the "wacky/unique" boss issue, I find that bosses should generally be a test of what you've learned in the rest of the game to that point. Weird/contradictory/one-off style bosses that have their own mechanics totally to themselves are okay if used very sparingly but they just feel out of place when every boss can be described that way. Plus, if every boss has it's own unique mechanics, it doesn't feel like the skills you've learned in the rest of the game have led up to anything. It doesn't feel like the growth your character has made, and the growth you as a player have made, mean anything when each boss feels like a self contained minigame.
In total, my personal ideal boss is a boss that feels like a logical extension of the rest of the experience that tests all of the knowledge you've acquired to that point without falling back on gimmicks or tricks.
For a recent game that did the final boss(es) particularly well, I would have to point to the recent Strider remake/reboot. They exist as challenges of how you understand the abilities your character has in a way that fits the rest of the game without breaking any rules. They can also be beaten with time/effort if you just sort of throw yourself at the challenge repeatedly, but can be beaten very quickly (and stylishly) if you've mastered the various techniques available to you.
Another couple of boss fight pet peeves of mine are the bloated punching bag and the "wacky/unique" boss.
Bosses should definitely be tougher than your standard enemy, maybe even drastically so, but a boss fight should never be boring just because the boss has ton of HP to whittle away, especially if there aren't any tricks or techniques than can be used to speed things up. If a fight takes forever because you're doing it wrong then that's one thing, but if the fight takes forever because the boss has just been given a stupid amount of HP then that's bad design.
As for the "wacky/unique" boss issue, I find that bosses should generally be a test of what you've learned in the rest of the game to that point. Weird/contradictory/one-off style bosses that have their own mechanics totally to themselves are okay if used very sparingly but they just feel out of place when every boss can be described that way. Plus, if every boss has it's own unique mechanics, it doesn't feel like the skills you've learned in the rest of the game have led up to anything. It doesn't feel like the growth your character has made, and the growth you as a player have made, mean anything when each boss feels like a self contained minigame.
In total, my personal ideal boss is a boss that feels like a logical extension of the rest of the experience that tests all of the knowledge you've acquired to that point without falling back on gimmicks or tricks.
For a recent game that did the final boss(es) particularly well, I would have to point to the recent Strider remake/reboot. They exist as challenges of how you understand the abilities your character has in a way that fits the rest of the game without breaking any rules. They can also be beaten with time/effort if you just sort of throw yourself at the challenge repeatedly, but can be beaten very quickly (and stylishly) if you've mastered the various techniques available to you.
I do like the rival battle. Just a full on harnessing of the fight mechanics, they can do everything you can do, pushing you right to the edge. Teeth clenched, desperate to grasp the upper hand at any second.
Jeanne is pretty good, but Jetstream Sam is the one I remember, probably because of the shit-eating grin. Magnificent bastard that he is.
Jeanne is pretty good, but Jetstream Sam is the one I remember, probably because of the shit-eating grin. Magnificent bastard that he is.
I'm pick you to yell at, because I don't like Revengeance. Jetstream was one of the easiest fights in the entire game, how do they expect you to NOT perfectly parry all his attacks when it's just 1v1 in a desert? I am 100% baffled by the love for Revengeance and its boss fights, as someone who is a fan of action games, metal gear, and good stuff in general. You want a real rival fight, try Vergil in DMC3. So perfect.Pink Gregory said:
Hey, I like what I like, if parrying feels good, it feels good. Don't like me liking that, leave the hall. Or go elsewhere in the hall, it's a big enough hall.Benpasko said:
Also I'ma assume you mean DMC3, right?
Here's a list:
The player must use their recently obtained knowledge/skill to beat the boss
Don't include freaking regular enemies in the fight
Remove any sort of plot armour for the boss
Include unique music, better if there was one for each boss
Have the character improve in their combat ability and/or as an actual character
Those are what I think are the most important aspects of a boss battle
The player must use their recently obtained knowledge/skill to beat the boss
Don't include freaking regular enemies in the fight
Remove any sort of plot armour for the boss
Include unique music, better if there was one for each boss
Have the character improve in their combat ability and/or as an actual character
Those are what I think are the most important aspects of a boss battle
The greatest boss battles I've played are from Metroid Prime. I consider it a bit boring game in general, I can't finish it because it's too slow and and "repeat the same level 10 times to walk across a new zone with your new ability" but its bosses are awesome.
Lol, didn't even notice that mistake. I mix up the acronyms sometimes, not sure why. Sorry if I came off aggressive in my post, I was just pretty disappointed by Revengeance so I get salty seeing how often it comes upPink Gregory said:
It's definitely a good game objectively, it just didn't click for me.
Edit: To clarify, I thought the parry mechanic was too simple. I knew how to do it, and so whenever I saw a red light the attack was instantly trivialized to me. I prefer the Devil May Cry style, where you don't have that strong block option. It feels more skin of my teeth if I'm forced to dodge, rather than just parry most of their attacks. The boss fights against the Metal Gears were really good I thought, for that reason.
I agree. While Metroid Prime certainly has some fantastic boss battles, navigating the world can turn from enjoyable exploration to a bit of a slog after you've visited each area one or twice. I would recommend either of the sequels to you, as I believe they both cut down on the monotony while keeping the awesome combat system intact. Thanks for the feedback!Aceskies said:
I could not agree with you more! These are pretty much my basic criteria for an enjoyable battle. It seems that many devs make their missteps on either the length(too short-any boss from Killer is Dead, or too long-Sephiroth from the original Kingdom Hearts) or appropriate use of game mechanics. Thanks for your insights!KarmaTheAlligator said:
Yes, yes, yes! These are excellent criteria! I believe most bosses should have a unique musical theme, and nothing ruins a fight for me faster than engaging the boss for around thirty seconds, only to have them retreat to leave me to fend off a horde of lesser enemies for several minutes, rinse, and repeat. Thanks for the answer!Aerosteam said:
This fight is incredible. Thank you for posting this! You hit upon a very good point in your post. Giving a boss multiple phases almost always enriches the experience. There's something inherently satisfying about watching the enemy grow weaker and resort to more drastic measures as the fight goes on. I may have to check out Revengeance before long. Thank you for the feedback!shrekfan246 said:
Okay, I'm sold on Revengeance! It wasn't even on my radar before, but after seeing the two videos posted in this thread, it's jumped to the top of my list! As for Manus, I'm playing through Dark Souls now, and I can't wait for that showdown at the end of the DLC. Of course, utilizing all of the skills the game has taught you is crucial in a well-crafted boss battle. Thanks for your insight and the videos!hazabaza1 said:
I couldn't agree more about the bloated punching bag archetype. I don't want to repeat the same process over and over again just because the developers wanted to pad out a fight-especially if that process is mashing one button over and over again. I may check out Strider at some point. Thank you for the feedback and recommendation!StriderShinryu said:
Mr. Freeze in Arkham City. He's powerful enough to perform one-hit kills so you're forced to go into stealth mode for the duration of the battle and take chunks of his life through a series of traps you can perform in the manner and order of your choosing. No two fights are the same, and it manages to be fun, challenging and satisfying. My only complaint would be, well, the reasons for the fight are quite stupid.
A boss fight that has a variety of attacks to use, all of them designed to test a different part of your knowledge of the game (e.g Volgins ground electricity forcing you to dive-roll over it, Egg Dragoon's wall slam testing your wall jump) also, if a boss fight has a certain weakspot that is the only place you can damage it, make it so that the weak spot can be targeted at any point in the fight, but when not completely open to attack you need some skill and careful maneuvering to hit (again, the Egg Dragoon from Sonic Generations)
Not sure what makes one good but I know what I don't like. Fights that are nothing but Q.T.E. The Tomb Raider reboot did this with the final boss fight. Boss fights where you don't use everything you learned up to that point. I beat Satan in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 the same way I beat every boss in that game. Bosses where I don't see a point to the fight or am not emotionally connected to the boss (hate or love).
I'd say this is a pretty solid list of requirements. The one except I can think of is that it's okay to have regular enemies if they are appropriate to the boss. For instance, some kind of sorcerer that can summon minions, I would expect to have to fight them too during the course of the fight. As long as they aren't just a weak excuse to lengthen the fight.Aerosteam said:
It needs to be entertaining and epic. Not brutally hard, but something that feels like you have to be engaged to win - a lot of bosses I can just autopilot through, even in skill based games, as I don't really have to be paying 100% of my attention to see what's coming. The exception to this is if the boss looks epic and the fight is to an epic soundtrack, whereby I am engaged by the epicness in the first place.
The boss should also be something I have to think to defeat. Not think hard all the time, though such bosses should exist, but it should not simply be a HP and damage bag.
It should require the use of skills you've learned through the game, but shouldn't tell you which ones to use or where. That just makes things boring as you're literally told how to win the boss fight, its like watching a lets play, but its in the game.
It should have multiple patterns of attack, and change them up as the fight goes on. Each stage obviously being harder than the previous.
Basically, it should be an engaging fight that utilises my mind, my reflexes and W/E else the game can test.
Two boss fights that I have loved recently have been the Mr Freeze and Ra's al Ghul boss fight from Arkham City. The former due to its interesting mechanics, whereby it relied on using your mind and stealth skills over your reflexes in an increasingly difficult to perform manner - though it did get a bit autopilot after a few plays - and the latter due to its epic theme and feel, whilst testing your reflexes and having a fair variety of different attacks for you to defend against.
Not sure when I'll find my next amazing boss fight, but hopefully soon. Heard good things about Dark Souls, hopefully 2 has decent PC controls so I feel like playing it.
The boss should also be something I have to think to defeat. Not think hard all the time, though such bosses should exist, but it should not simply be a HP and damage bag.
It should require the use of skills you've learned through the game, but shouldn't tell you which ones to use or where. That just makes things boring as you're literally told how to win the boss fight, its like watching a lets play, but its in the game.
It should have multiple patterns of attack, and change them up as the fight goes on. Each stage obviously being harder than the previous.
Basically, it should be an engaging fight that utilises my mind, my reflexes and W/E else the game can test.
Two boss fights that I have loved recently have been the Mr Freeze and Ra's al Ghul boss fight from Arkham City. The former due to its interesting mechanics, whereby it relied on using your mind and stealth skills over your reflexes in an increasingly difficult to perform manner - though it did get a bit autopilot after a few plays - and the latter due to its epic theme and feel, whilst testing your reflexes and having a fair variety of different attacks for you to defend against.
Not sure when I'll find my next amazing boss fight, but hopefully soon. Heard good things about Dark Souls, hopefully 2 has decent PC controls so I feel like playing it.
They should be fun, thats about it for me I dont really care what its like as long as I find the fight enjoyable in some way whether its due to an awesome challenge or its just funny because its (intentionally) pathetically easy.
If the game is story based I also appreciate them setting up the uber boss in some way and not just dropping them in for no real reason like they did at the end of FFIV and IX.
If the game is story based I also appreciate them setting up the uber boss in some way and not just dropping them in for no real reason like they did at the end of FFIV and IX.
Yep, I already played Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, and I fucking love it. I'm waiting the perfect moment for get into Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.Bradach Donachad said:
By the way, there are some The Legend of Zelda bosses that are awesome too, but only the first time you play it, because when you notice where's the point to attack, it becomes boring. I'm so disappointed with new TLOZ games due to this fact. I can understand that with N64 there was not many possibilities of making more complex mechanics to beat bosses. But still in TLOZ of Wii and 3DS they have not make anything different from before, is frustrating.
PD: I don't know if someone mentioned it but Shadow of the Colossus bosses are the most epical battles I've ever played.
I don't think it's a matter of difficulty but rather variety. Resident Evil 4 had great boss battles, Shadow of the Colossus is nothing but boss battles, a lot of the Zelda bosses are great and memorable, and Asura's Wrath has insane fights/boss battles still none of these games are particularly hard, some of them are actually really easy, but it's the things that the bosses make you do (climb on them, fish them out of the water, climb a tower so you can jump on their back and hammer them to the ground, punch them from the Earth all the way to the moon only to be impaled by a sword that goes from the moon all the way to the other side of the Earth and then you break the sword so you can hit them when they get close, etc.)
my point is boss battle don't need to be rising difficulty just varied in fun
my point is boss battle don't need to be rising difficulty just varied in fun