What's so bad about Maths?

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ChildishLegacy

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Ok so in a few topics lately I've seen quite a large amount of people saying that they either never understood maths, never tried with maths or thought it was pointless. Let me start by saying if you think at any point my tone is elitist here, then it's not intended and I respect anybody who just doesn't enjoy maths and so didn't bother with it, the same goes for me with English, Biology and Drama.

I'm a very logically minded person, and understand most of the maths that I get taught immediately (I can't stress enough that I'm not bragging here, I'm just stating how I feel about this), and if I don't I can think through it until I come to a better way of thinking about a new concept in maths and understand it's implications and how it relates to the rest of my understanding of Maths.

Now help me out here, it's hard for me to understand exactly WHAT stops people from doing what I have just mentioned, because it's very hard for people to get into other people's mindsets and how they think things through, what blocks you from understanding how Maths works as you are taught it, and what stops you from being interested and what just completely baffles you about it? Is it the teaching? the way in which the syllabuses are made? or do you really just not feel any connection with the subject at all?
And if you do enjoy maths, what do you think other people's problems are with it that you have noticed?

I've thought about a few factors that might affect people's understanding of maths, and please tell me if you think I'm right about these or not:

1) People are forced to think about maths in one way - I think the most important part of maths is understand why it works, and getting it to work in your own head. If it is taught in one way and one way only in the classroom, this might not work in some of the student's heads and they start to think they are "incompatible" with maths, when really they have just been taught it in a manner which is incompatible with their way of thinking. I think that anybody can be good at maths, they just need to think about it in their own unique way which makes sense to them.

2) The teaching is bad/students are taught to pass maths exams, not to understand maths - I think there's way too much emphasis on exams when it comes to maths, and teachers tend to give students set methods to get around problems, rather than having them use their own heads. I think I have very good teachers that are teaching me A level maths currently, especially one who actually goes into depth about how the Maths works, rather than just giving us cookie cutter methods to use, which really does help you get a better understanding of Maths.

3) There's a lack of enthusiasm for Maths, and a lot of ignorance to how interesting/useful Maths really is - A lot of the time I hear people asking "why is this useful?" or "this is pointless" when they are learning new things in maths. Almost all of maths has a use, and Maths and Science are integrated into almost every aspect of our day to day lives, it's just hidden from everybody so only the Maths and Science people behind things like Engineering, Economics and Chemistry have to worry about it, but without Maths, we'd have almost no aspect of our modern lifestyle that we live today.

Also, even if some of Maths IS useless, this doesn't mean its not and interesting thing to learn about, English, Art and Music are just as useful as these "pointless" sections of Maths, yet they're still pursued and enjoyed by many. Maths is a very elegant thing, and the more you understand it the more you realize how astounding it is, it opens your mind to how everything is connected, how everything works together and how complex certain aspects of the world we live in are. I'd go as far as to say this "pointless" maths could be considered an art form.

So, if you don't like maths, or think that you can't do it, am I on to something here? Or is it that you just really despise maths, like I do other subjects.
Also if you do like maths, what do you see as the biggest barrier around Maths that you could see being problematic for other people?
 

ChildishLegacy

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Seems off-topic is only for "your favourite _____" or "What would you do if ______" or "Here's this piece of depressing news, lets all be depressed at the state of the modern world"

Screw actual discussion D:
 

StriderShinryu

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Honestly, I rarely had any issue doing math in school.. I just never really enjoyed doing it. I think it's maybe a left/right brain sort of thing. It just clicks for some people and doesn't for others. I always preferred English, History, Art, Philosophy, etc.

I do, however, feel that Math does get taught at a level that doen't really matter to the vast majority of people in the world. Maybe it's my own bias speaking, but I can see real world correlations for almost any other subject in school right up to the point where you're leaving high school. What one learns in Math, however, seems largely useless after, say, Grade 9 or 10 unless you work in specific vocations. It's a required course and yet I feel it would be better served as an optional, for both the general student population but also for those who are interseted in it.
 

ChildishLegacy

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StriderShinryu said:
What one learns in Math, however, seems largely useless after, say, Grade 9 or 10 unless you work in specific vocations.
Doesn't the same apply to any subject after that level? Also just because you're not using it directly doesn't mean it doesn't help to think things through mathematically and logically, which can help in more jobs than science and engineering.
 

Catfood220

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I can see why advanced maths is useful in the building of engines and rockets and all that sciencey stuff, I just never got it even after several repeated tries, none of it never sank in.
 

Esotera

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The application of it. Most people really don't need to know much more than basic arithmetic for their lives, and don't care about its beauty.

I think it's a means to an end (coming from someone who has to use it fairly often), and I personally don't enjoy doing it for pleasure.
 

Hazy992

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I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
 

ChildishLegacy

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Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
 

Hazy992

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Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
 

Hero in a half shell

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I was above average at maths in school, and even quite enjoyed it, but I did advanced maths for GCSE which was all weird calculus and memorising incredibly obscure complicated equations, and my ability and motivation to understand and do it plummeted when I didn't understand the purpose of it.

Because I didn't know the practical application of the equations, I couldn't fathom why they were set up the way they were, why does simplifying a quadratic equation make it ten times longer and more complicated? What is X, no, What actually is it? In a conceptual sense why does this jumble of numbers exist, why was it created, and why do I need to manipulate it in such a specific way to turn this string of mathematical symbols into another equally incomprehensible and useless string of algebraic vomit?

That higher level maths creates an abstract nature in something that's supposed to be so... logical, it just frys my brain.
 

ChildishLegacy

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Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
What I was trying to say in my OP is that if you get taught maths in a certain way, and you can't understand it that way, it doesn't mean you can never get maths, it just means you haven't found your way of thinking about it, and that its a bit odd that it's taught in only one way.
 

Hazy992

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Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
What I was trying to say in my OP is that if you get taught maths in a certain way, and you can't understand it that way, it doesn't mean you can never get maths, it just means you haven't found your way of thinking about it, and that its a bit odd that it's taught in only one way.
No but some people just don't get maths, no matter how it's taught. Other than the really basic stuff it just goes over my head. It's nothing to do with how I was taught; I just don't understand it. I didn't get it at school, I didn't get what little maths I had to in college, and I'm struggling to understand statistics in university now.
 

McMullen

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Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
I don't buy that. I used to not get it, and did fairly poorly in whatever math class I took. Then I got into 3d modeling and animation. At some point I realized I was doing algebra and trigonometry in three dimensions every day and enjoying it. Went back to college to take calculus and aced it.

I don't think it's because people's "brains are wired differently", I think it's because we have an education system that fails to teach people the value of math. Even if you aren't an engineer or animator, you can still employ algebra, trig, and even calculus in your life.
 

ChildishLegacy

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McMullen said:
Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
I don't buy that. I used to not get it, and did fairly poorly in whatever math class I took. Then I got into 3d modeling and animation. At some point I realized I was doing algebra and trigonometry in three dimensions every day and enjoying it. Went back to college to take calculus and aced it.

I don't think it's because people's "brains being wired differently", I think it's because we have an education system that fails to teach people the value of math. Even if you aren't an engineer or animator, you can still employ algebra, trig, and even calculus in your life.
This, nice to see somebody else that sees where I'm coming from.
I think its an early age thing as well, there seems to be a cutoff point at the transition between arithmetic and algebra, I think if that first step isn't made well, then maths becomes alien to a lot of people.
 

Hazy992

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McMullen said:
Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
I don't buy that. I used to not get it, and did fairly poorly in whatever math class I took. Then I got into 3d modeling and animation. At some point I realized I was doing algebra and trigonometry in three dimensions every day and enjoying it. Went back to college to take calculus and aced it.

I don't think it's because people's "brains are wired differently", I think it's because we have an education system that fails to teach people the value of math. Even if you aren't an engineer or animator, you can still employ algebra, trig, and even calculus in your life.
Back in high school the subjects I was always best at were humanities subjects like English, religious studies and geography but I always sucked at maths. My friend was the opposite; he was best at things like maths and physics but less strong in humanities subjects. We were in the same classes for everything yet we we're different in this regard. It's nothing to do with the teaching.

I don't know why it's so hard to buy I just plain don't get maths, regardless of the quality of teaching.

And people's brains are wired differently. It's called lateralisation of brain function.
 

Chemical Alia

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All through school I had nasty teachers who discouraged me and caused me a lot of stress over the subject. So I never got a good understanding of math and hate thinking about it early on, which led to doing poorly in every subsequent math subject because I never learned the foundations properly or the right approach. So for me, environment and my circumstances played a part in me being poor with math. I don't need to use it much in my work, but I do wish it was something that I knew, because that bothers me.
 

McMullen

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Hazy992 said:
McMullen said:
Hazy992 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Hazy992 said:
I can see the use of a lot of it, it just makes my head hurt :(
But where does that confusion come from? Are teachers failing to explain it properly or something? A lot of it comes naturally if you understand the basic principles in depth.
Some people just don't get maths (myself included). Everyone's brains are just wired differently, it's no big deal and it can't be helped.
I don't buy that. I used to not get it, and did fairly poorly in whatever math class I took. Then I got into 3d modeling and animation. At some point I realized I was doing algebra and trigonometry in three dimensions every day and enjoying it. Went back to college to take calculus and aced it.

I don't think it's because people's "brains are wired differently", I think it's because we have an education system that fails to teach people the value of math. Even if you aren't an engineer or animator, you can still employ algebra, trig, and even calculus in your life.
Back in high school the subjects I was always best at were humanities subjects like English, religious studies and geography but I always sucked at maths. My friend was the opposite; he was best at things like maths and physics but less strong in humanities subjects. We were in the same classes for everything yet we we're different in this regard. It's nothing to do with the teaching.

I don't know why it's so hard to buy I just plain don't get maths, regardless of the quality of teaching.

And people's brains are wired differently. It's called lateralisation of brain function.
You seem to have missed my point entirely. I'm saying that yes, we have our interests and are often indifferent to anything outside those interests, for whatever reason. When we get forced into dealing with those things, we fear or dislike those subjects unless we see the value in them. The majority of people are indifferent to math, yes, and to that extent it is a result of what you refer to as wiring. I was when I was in school. However, this can change when you see its value. It works the other way around as well. An analytically-minded person can wake up to the humanities in the same way.

Perhaps Neil deGrasse Tyson can explain it better. In this video he describes going from apathy towards the humanities to understanding and relishing in it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6081003512831231159
 

ChildishLegacy

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Chemical Alia said:
So I never got a good understanding of math and hate thinking about it early on, which led to doing poorly in every subsequent math subject because I never learned the foundations properly or the right approach.
This is what I'd thought I'd see more of in this thread, it really is a shame that teachers can affect people so much in the earlier stages of education. I remember I really loved to draw, and I had a teacher tell me that I couldn't draw very well at all when I was young (about 6 or 7?), and I just gave up all together and I can't draw to save my life now, I'd love to be able to.