When Did Our Teachers Become Pansies?

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Berithil

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Mar 19, 2009
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When I was in middle school, I went to a private school. I was one of the teacher's favorite students solely because I got a's and b's in all my class's. Even a B was considered execptional work. The average grades in the classes were in the 70s (which I guess "average" now in the school systems) The discipline there was better than most schools and the teachers were allowed a small measure of control when it came to reprimanding students. I'm going into my senior year and I'm homeschooled. I have probably learned far more this way than I would have in a public school enviroment.

I just got done teaching in an afterschool program at 3 elementary schools. I was amazed at how undisciplined the kids were. One kid knew how the system worked and when told to behave, he said straight at the leaders face "I don't have to listen to you. You can't touch me". It's sad to see how far the education system has fallen.
 

Ishadus

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Apr 3, 2010
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cameron112497 said:
Blatherscythe said:
Ishadus said:
Depends where you live.

I'm a teacher, and my hands were quite literally tied. I wasn't ALLOWED to enforce shit in my classroom. The extent of the discipline I was permitted to carry out was detentions (to which a kid would oftentimes not even show up) or call the parents (who didn't even answer or give a shit 80% of the time). All the while the administration adopted a "you deal with it and stop bothering us" attitude.

You know we're not even allowed to fail students under the current system? I've had grade 11's that can scarcely read or write properly.

I don't work in the youth sector anymore. I was sick of the governmental bull.
Yeah I'm aware that a student cannot offically fail anymore, you have to give at least a 50%. That's bullshit and I'm glad you got out with your sanity.
wait wait wait. Its impossible to fail? What is teh motivation to do good at school then. a reward undeserved is a wasted reward.
Oftentimes, for many, there isn't one. That's the extension of the problem.

A child struggles, rather than the root cause being identified and dealt with, he/she is patted on the head, told they're special, and sent right along. Of course, this makes it even MORE likely they will continue to struggle as they haven't acquired the more basic skills yet. It will propagate farther and farther. The child grows accustomed to failure, realizes there's no penalty for it and has no motivation to change it, so stops caring about performance entirely. And once that happens, what's the point of school at all? Why shouldn't he/she act out for fun and chat on their cell phones? Take away the enforced direction from a child, and you're left with an egocentric individual with a growing sense of entitlement.

It is a growing bubble that will pop eventually as more and more people start entering the workforce with little or no practical skills. I'm hoping when it happens there will be a backswing to more traditional education that is more highly structured and performance based.

In the meantime, I enjoy teaching in adult education. I get a clientele that is voluntarily coming back to school because they've realized the world only gives a crap about you insomuch as you can earn it through performance. Obviously this can have its own unique challenges, but they are challenges I relish in, unhindered by politics and bureaucratic ignorance.
 

Deofuta

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Nov 10, 2009
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I went to a private school, so if someone got below a 70, they weren't even talked about/mentioned. Like ti was a disease or something :)

No fights either, really. Pretty boring I guess?
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Blatherscythe said:
How the fuck did this happen?
Three main reasons
1) Parents decided they knew best, and were supported.
2) Children have been protected so heavily that any form of punishment is seen as abuse.
3) Cheap Teachers (Students) have been brought in instead of Experienced Teachers.

See Policeman, Unions, Doctors etc.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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About the same time students started getting rights. It's a double-edged sword, because now students and parents can take teachers to task for legitimate abuses of authority, but at the same time it means teachers are open for frivolous lawsuits which of course take the focus away from those teachers who genuinely deserve to have legal action taken against them.
 

stiborge

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Sep 23, 2009
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I get that somewhat at my school but not as much in all my classes, a few are just ridiculous though. That's probably just because like 90% of my school is stoned all the time.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Caligulove said:
Mostly because parents who think their child is special, and are willing to drastically exaggerate their issues to deans and other people in charge to punish anyone who makes their kid feel bad or some shit.

Kids aren't special right out of the gate. School is where you discover whose special, the ones who excel.
Thats what should be reinforced. That and power for teachers to remove students who show no interest or show no work ethic
School is a poor measure of who is special. Many great geniuses did not do well in school and did not enjoy that structured and heavily flawed environment.

School is where you discover who has bought into the ideology of school and little else. Oh, and it's a good place to be told what to think rather than how to think.
 

stiborge

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Sep 23, 2009
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Blatherscythe said:
Ishadus said:
Depends where you live.

I'm a teacher, and my hands were quite literally tied. I wasn't ALLOWED to enforce shit in my classroom. The extent of the discipline I was permitted to carry out was detentions (to which a kid would oftentimes not even show up) or call the parents (who didn't even answer or give a shit 80% of the time). All the while the administration adopted a "you deal with it and stop bothering us" attitude.

You know we're not even allowed to fail students under the current system? I've had grade 11's that can scarcely read or write properly.

I don't work in the youth sector anymore. I was sick of the governmental bull.
Yeah I'm aware that a student cannot offically fail anymore, you have to give at least a 50%. That's bullshit and I'm glad you got out with your sanity.
WHOE! Kids can't fail? How recent is this? I'm sure I know some kids with less then 50%. I myself got a 40 some percent freshman year (About 2 years ago) in one of my classes, one semester. Also, 50% is still failing. You need a 60% or above to pass.
 

AyaReiko

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Aug 9, 2008
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Instinct Blues said:
All I can say is that I plan on becoming a teacher I swear to God if some kid mouths off to me they'll be gone. Now I don't plan on being a hardass it's more of a don't mistake my kindness for weakness kind of deal. From what I've noticed as long as a teacher is generally nice and somewhat funny kids won't put up with kids who decide they're gonna be cool and test the teacher. At least thats been my experience in high school.
Trust me. You don't want to become a teacher in the States.

I'm glad I bombed out of my internship. I can safely tell you this; Don't bother applying unless you're a Dr. Phil clone. They want belly-rubbers and hand-holders. Authortarians and displinarians need not apply. And don't let me get into just how shoddy the curriculum is getting.

Ishadus, I know how you feel (maybe, sort of). I had high schoolers who didn't know basic math. The district I was in also wouldn't hold kids back a grade either. I never saw any of the teachers I was under hand out detention.

The system is collapsing. And people wonder why college professors are pissed at so many young adults having to take remedial classes.
 

Kenny Kondom

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Oct 8, 2009
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[PRE-NOTE: I am talking more about the British teaching methods in this rant, as ive never been anywhere else to study. Plus i know all the loopholes because i work as a member of staff within a school... the most important job of all IMO.... The DinnerLady/ManThing]

It isn't a case of they have become lazy. It is a case that they now have no legal legislation to help them exert authority over the class, which leads to the zoo like scenarios.

On report cards, they cannot write what they truely think of the student, which means the parents cannot help the teachers plan and stratagise with the problem(s) the kid has. You have to put something like 'needs to put more effort in' rather than 'needs to stop burning his school books, the prat'.

In terms of classroom authority, all they have is sending them to the Head's office. You cant keep them after class, because a one to one suituation with the kids isnt allowed anymore due to the high ammounts of false sexual offences that are reported by the kids. You cant yell at them because it isnt 'good for their self esteem'. You cant set unusal punishments that could potentially embarrest a student into behaving [EG, My science teacher made you stand against a wall whilst holding a book with your nose for a period of time... at the front of the class. if you dropped the book, you started again. He'd also ask you the questions he was presenting.]

In all, its a case of governments going exceptionally soft. It is a cliche, but it is political correctness gone Batshit-Insane, and MollyCoddling of the highest order. Teachers aren't given the support they need off of the government, the head members of staff, NOBODY! Meh... I wish i hadnt been such a dick during my school days now... Its annoying and hurts from the other perspective...
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Lunar Shadow said:
Corporal punishment would only achieve a hostile learning environment. Using violence as discipline does not work, and is would only engender hatred.
Wrong.
I was brought up under that system and I have full respect for it. The teachers I dislike are the ones that were unfair to me. If I acted like a little bastard, and I did, I expected a clip round the ear.

That's what made it fun.

I'm still a pacifist.
 

DemonicVixen

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Oct 24, 2009
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Even in college you get the odd push over teacher until they are pushed over the edge and snap.

My Key Skills teacher comes across as being gentle, mild and out for a laugh with the students. For the past few months the students in my class and probably others, took advantage of her and her lessons feeling that it wasnt an important enough lesson to care about. They messed around, talked and generally had a good time and done no work. Now, as the end of college aproaches, the teacher started to nag, and get angry easily upon finding that over half the class had done no work (believe me or not i was one of the handful that actually done the work on time) and started laying into them a lot more. She was easily agrivated and often in an argument with 1 or more students in the class to the point where she reported them to our tutor/coarse leader who also gave us wrong.

I think if the teacher doesnt show discipline from the start, and tries to "mingle" with the students, it will eventually get to the point where he/she will no longer be taken seriously. I have known 3 teachers who made it clear from the start that they meant business, and yet, over time, they showed that they COULD be fun if we behaved and got our work done and yet they never lost that authority. They were respected and weirdly liked by many (with a touch of fear in there also).

However i have had one teacher in particular during year 9 in highschool who i hated and eventually stopped going to his lessons because of. He used to yell, slam things down, and throw heavy objects into a large metal cupboard when he was in a temper. Sadly i was not far from the cupboard and believe me, that noise is evil to hear when something heavy slams into it.
 

Jumendez-sama

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May 19, 2010
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There are many reasons to this outcome that you associate with being a pansy.

On a psychological aspect, perhaps modern teachers reflect on the stress put on them over the limitations that their teachers put on them, and are making sure that they won't turn into the thing that they'd for so long associated subconsciously with suffering (trusted the memories of childhood carry for so long).

This may work to the opposite effect, however, for I've seen teachers that are somewhat strict, though most of the time, they were quite stupid about it and lacked reason in most of their commands. Though I get your opinion is that whether a teacher's reason is just or not doesn't allow a student to dismiss a teacher's duty. To get back onto the topic of this paragraph, the opposite may be true because teachers want to take out the pent up pain accumulated over years of schooling on students, but releasing stress in such a way leads ones actions to be irrational, and this irrationality actually hurts their cause, for in children's eyes, it reduces teacher's credibility as a whole.

A final possibility is that teachers have come to the conclusion of "I can't fight off the inevitable, so I might as well adapt to it as best as I can." Students now are exposed to a lot more privileges than the generations before them, and can easily access these privileges. Students have mentally adjusted to this idea that it's easy to get what you want, and therefore behave in such manners; all they have to do is say "Screw working, let's go do some other shit." and then proceed to do such without facing the consequences...until that D grade comes for them in the mail at the end of the semester. Some teachers see this trend rising, and just try to adapt to it, whether it's to take advantage of this by in turn making their work easier (therefore making grading easier). I find this is the case with the foreign language department, mostly.

In general, I think that if students are going to waste the opportunity, then it's useless for states to pay so much for all of these programs, and only offer things like language to those that want to learn it, without slapping a foreign language requirement. In a sense, I share a bit of an opinion with the teachers that have pretty much given up, but I'd rather do something about it than take advantage of it, but what else will greedy humans do.

Now, if you've read through this entire rant, consider yourselves lucky, for you're the last of those with enough attention spans to read the equivalent of an editorial.

To be honest, I wouldn't have bothered to read this Great Wall of Text if this were written by someone else.
 

Fire Daemon

Quoth the Daemon
Dec 18, 2007
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Three main reasons
1) Parents decided they knew best, and were supported.
2) Children have been protected so heavily that any form of punishment is seen as abuse.
3) Cheap Teachers (Students) have been brought in instead of Experienced Teachers.

See Policeman, Unions, Doctors etc.
I'm not sure about the UK, but I'm fairly certain that teachers are paid by position, not by experience, so there is no such thing as a cheap teacher as there is to a cheap janitor or butcher or whatever. Also, what do you mean by 'brought in'? Has the teacher spawn pool been set to inexperienced for the past few years? Someone should fix that.

Anyway, as an actual student teacher I have to say that you are pretty much wrong. Student teachers work alongside the original teacher as more of an aide than anything else and are only allowed to teach as much as the teacher lets them, they don't replace experienced teachers. Again, I'm not sure about the UK, but I'm pretty sure that experienced teachers aren't having to give up classes to inexperienced student teachers because the school doesn't want to pay them. You bring up unions, yeah I'm pretty sure those unions would have a problem with shit like that. The only time that an experienced teacher will be replaced with an inexperienced teacher is when the experienced one quits teaching to be replaced with fresh meat, which is an inevitable aspect of all jobs.

Also, I have to wonder how you think experienced teachers are made. One becomes an experienced teacher by... experiencing teaching and so student teacher programs let the would be teachers get experience in the field before they get the actual job, rather than throwing someone who has never taught into a classroom and expecting them to control it.
 

Kenny Kondom

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Oct 8, 2009
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Fire Daemon said:
I'm not sure about the UK, but I'm fairly certain that teachers are paid by position, not by experience, so there is no such thing as a cheap teacher
To a degree you are right. However, hiring in new, freshly graduated student teacher is often the easiest thing to do. Also, experienced teachers often move to find jobs at higher paid positions at higher ranking schools. this leaves those schools that struggle with no experienced staff, which sends the school further down the board.

Ah well. But i understand what you mean. they are paid by position (EG, head of subject gets more money than their supporting staff) but there have been occasions experienced teachers that have moved to schools have asked for slight bonuses/extra pay, purely because of the experience they are bringing with them.
 

Fire Daemon

Quoth the Daemon
Dec 18, 2007
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Kenny Kondom said:
Fire Daemon said:
I'm not sure about the UK, but I'm fairly certain that teachers are paid by position, not by experience, so there is no such thing as a cheap teacher
To a degree you are right. However, hiring in new, freshly graduated student teacher is often the easiest thing to do. Also, experienced teachers often move to find jobs at higher paid positions at higher ranking schools. this leaves those schools that struggle with no experienced staff, which sends the school further down the board.

Ah well. But i understand what you mean. they are paid by position (EG, head of subject gets more money than their supporting staff) but there have been occasions experienced teachers that have moved to schools have asked for slight bonuses/extra pay, purely because of the experience they are bringing with them.
I've only heard about that occurring at private schools which are free to hire and pay any amount that they want, but things could obviously be different in other countries or I could just be misinformed.